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Right, Vampire has always been second on my list of things that need reworks, after changeling. I have a ton of ideas for this, so I'm very happy you've brought it up. I was planning to make a forum post about it myself, actually. Straight off the bat, as I'm sure everyone can agree, we need to see the humanised monkey cheese go. Now that's out of the way, I have a few ideas. Primarily, I'd like to see Vampire be less "Traitor 2 electric boogaloo" and more its own, unique, antagonist. With different objectives, and different methods of play. Now, as much as many of you might see the server as taboo, and lets not go into the morals and ethics of it, Lifeweb does many things for their Vampires very well, and some specific things I would love to see implemented in some fashion. In Lifeweb, much like many SS13 servers, you gain blood by sucking it out of people, which fills up a bar, which then allows you to use certain abilities. A few things are drastically different however, for example, the blood depletes over time even if not in use. Vampires there have no standard organs bar the brain and I believe heart, instead they have multiple organs for "Vitae Storage". Vitae being the blood, which is used to store the blood for later use. If damaged, the vampire is unable to store new blood. Vampires must extend and retract their fangs for use, or disguise, and of course, they have a drastically different set of powers available to them. However, most drastically different, and what I personally would like to see, is the humanity system. In Lifeweb, Vampires start with ten humanity points. They lose points every time their bloodsucking, or any other action, leads to the death of a human. A few points down, or at very low vitae, they'll begin to have bursts of rage where their mob will become briefly controlled by a constantly aggressive AI, sort of like the greytide AI. Once they reach zero humanity, or a little above, they'll lose control permanently. While I don't think losing control to an AI is a very good idea for Paradise, I do think this system of a loss of humanity as you descend into a more bloodthirsty state could be implemented. However, instead of losing control for varying amounts of time, I think it'd be great to see the Vampires physical humanity become less and less noticeable. Sort of like the caste systems people have mentioned. Possibly, a full humanity vampire would look indistinguishable from the standard crew when their fangs are not revealed, with abilities that play to this, with things that are not so drastically brutal, yet still powerful enough to give people an incentive to play as a full humanity vampire. Maybe give only full humanity vampires the ability to turn others into lesser vampires, and give them abilities that aren't so aggressive, like hypnotisation, enthralling, glares, and so on. As a vampire kills more, their humanity would go down, and thus, their human like features would decrease, the stealth of their abilities would go down, and the aggressiveness would go up, until a point where a zero humanity vampire is essentially a bat winged, nosferatu esque monstrosity with no hope for stealth, with abilities concentrating purely on brute force, like increased melee damage, huge, always extended fangs, increased speed, and so on.

So, a little backstory beforehand: I was HoP during a round when misteriously a lot of syndicate balloons appeared. Everyone spent their telecrystals on them I guess. I myself was not an antagonist, but I started collecting them. Soon, the NT rep made an announcement to bring all the balloons to his office, so he can destroy them. He would pay for them, of course. Soon after I also made an announcement to bring them to me instead, as I am collecting them. The NT rep wasn't pleased with this, and told me that CentCom is probably going to be very disappointed that someone in command collects syndicate propaganda. My answer was: "NT should make their own balloons then." Or something like that. The NT rep thought it was a brilliant idea, so he faxed CentCom immediatly regarding the matter. Now, here I am, proposing the brand new, anti-bursting, collectible NanoTrasen balloons. Thoughts?

Personally, I find vampires to be a lackluster antagonist. They're doomed to either prey on greyshirts in maint or do the monkey cheese thing to become powerful, but once they do become powerful they're nigh unstoppable. They have massive potential for not just blindly killing people, but making for interesting characters, but most of the time they just get gunned down by Security as soon as they're out. I'll be doing a rework of vampires that will seek to address the issues. Please throw any of your ideas for improvement, as well as theories as to why the antagonist is so despised by a large part of our community in this thread. Thanks!

So just something that was bugging me. Why dont security start with a sec hud as standard kit? This is based off a past scenario that happened. Basically spawned late round as an officer as i walked off the shuttle straight into a firefight with a crewmember and 3 ERTs basically before i had a chance to react i was shot at with lethals by the ert and knocked to the ground. as i didnt have a sec hud and just walked off the shuttle i assumed they were hostile/impostors ended up arresting one and stunning the other. This lead to myself and one ert dying from the actual antagonist attacks. In part a trigger happy ert started it who for some reason didnt see my implant it could have been avoided by having my hud on as at spawn.

One thing I've noticed is that plasmamen need to eat in order to keep their nutrition level up. Considering that they get the energy they need from the plasma they breathe, it seems a bit odd that plasmamen would need to eat to keep their hunger levels up when plasma has taken over that function. The wiki (which I understand is a work in progress) states that "While they can no longer eat food or breathe normally, they can inhale and combust small amounts of plasma gas in their altered lungs", and "This reaction both provides them with metabolic energy and helps to stabilize the solidified plasma in the rest of their bodies." My suggestion is that their nutrition levels could be altered by the amount of plasma gas fed to them, or that it just stays static due to the constant need for plasma anyway.

Yeah this is exactly what I'm talking about, sec always doing the full monty for everything. That's player behaviour though and is only getting more common alongside other edge giving tactics like having the AI disable the airlock timing at roundstart because it makes it slightly more difficult for someone to break in. Kinda kills the fun IMO and needs coding around. Because lets face it if I've got something even slightly dodgy I'm always going to run because I know for a fact I won't get any slack when it comes to those cavity searches. I for one would do a lot more brig RP if it didn't mean always having my round ended.

I've got a quick, old story. It involves vampires and trials that no one needs. It was a vampire round, and I was the IAA. Security was acting up here and there, but nothing I couldn't manage. That is, until the detective caught a vampire in maintenance. "Hey, guys, I'm going to burn the vampire!" The detective said over the radio. "DON'T FUCKING DO IT!" Replied me and the HoS, over and over. Cue me rushing as fast as I could down to the chapel to stop the detective, as the entirety of security comes down to watch this vampire get burned. Meanwhile, Alex Rockwell, the unlucky vampire, is screaming over the radio that he's being dragged to the incinerator. "DON'T BURN THE VAMPIRE" I yell again. "Vampire is ash, mission accomplished!" calls back the detective. Cue me shouting my lungs off at the detective for an illegal execution (Yes, I know it's silly that vampires can't be just killed on the spot. In my opinion, why bother having legitimate executions for vampires/changelings if CC won't let security detain vampires/changelings. But, I digress). Some officer then speaks up, and says, "Hey, why don't we have a trial!" If you know how I work in legal, you'll know that I absolutely abhor trials in any shape or form. This detective was clearly guilty of murder, even if he could have easily gotten parole considering he killed a vampire. None the less, everyone in security rushes back to the, at the time, newly added courthouse, to hold a kangaroo court for the detective. Seeing that there was going to be no reasoning with security, and being too tired to bother contacting CC, I opted to cryo.

I can confirm I search all the crevices. Remove backpack, empty both pockets, check in any other containers in backpack, check PDA for both messages and uplink, examine ID, take off headset and test. I don't know how to check for a storage implant, but would if I did. Sec shouldn't be randomly searching you (meaning searching you without you having committed a crime) unless it's code red and you are outside your department OR if there has been some sort of announcement that nobody is to be in maint and anyone found in maint will be searched (it's usually code red at this point anyways). I can tell you that lots of the time sec searches people seemingly randomly it's because the AI caught you doing something sketchy and notified us. Can't speak for all of sec but I'm also alot lighter on people who are pleasant and cooperative, I sometimes even forget to check all crevices then, but if you are being an ass and super upset you are being searched, I'll be sure to check everywhere because there is probably a reason you are so upset. If I stop you for a hallway search and you say "yea sure, go for it" I'll probably just check your bag and be on my way (note I will ALWAYS cuff you for a search because I've had too many ass bags agree to a search then stun me and either kill me or run as soon as they know I habe the UI in front of me removing their bag...speaking of powergamers :P). If you force me to chase you and tase you then spit fire at me, I'll drag you to processing and strip you.

Here's a new one. Hot off the presses. I'll name this one "Riot or Wrong?" I'm an officer, early on we catch a traitor with a pen sword and emag who attempted to kill someone. We put em in perma. Captain orders we borg them. There is some opposition amongst command that delays the borgification but it finally is complete. The opposition was made public somewhere along the way and riots began in front of the bridge. It was really confusing for a while but at some point security needed to don riot gear to break up the crowd. We told them to disperse, some refused, we began arresting, uncuffed rioters began dragging cuffed ones away, a civilian who, as far as I knew wasn't a rioter, started dragging a cuffed rioter off. I tase and cuff them, another officer gets the rioter, I start bringing the civ to the brig. Here's where it got...interesting. in LOOC they say "Why am I being arrested? I've committed no crime, answer or I'll AHELP" I stop and IC I say "you are being arrested for helping a criminal, you tried to drag away a cuffed rioter that we were arresting" I can't remember what was IC or LOOC at this point but from this point forward there was a mixture of the two with them telling me that's not a law, I'm not allowed to search them. Despite them being SO cooperative I say I'm going to search them and if they have nothing on them they get off with a warning. I find a stunprod on them. Tell them I need to brig them for weapons possession. They keep arguing IC and OOC that I can't do this, so I say in LOOC "Alright I'll amuse you, I'll AHELP this" I end up MHELPing explaining that I've arrested a civilian that was helping a rioter get away, am I allowed to arrest and search them? Mentors get back saying "yes, aiding and abetting." So I've now confirmed with mentors I'm in the right, inform the civ in LOOC, they continue arguing. I confiscate the weapons, bring them to a cell, and say all I'm gonna brig them for is weapons charge, 10 min. I COULD have given them another 10 for helping the rioter and lack of cooperation but I felt bad cuz they were already in a bad mood. Before leaving I say in LOOC "while you are in your cell, go read space law, look up weapons posession under medium crimes, then scroll below capital crimes and find aiding and abetting" They respond in LOOC "Fuck you, I've read it enough...I'm right..also 'while you are in your cell?' ICKY OOCKY!" I respond "ICKY OOCKY? Like asking me why you are under arrest in LOOC? or arguing the arrest in LOOC?" He's says "FUCK YOU" admin turns off LOOC Sort of felt like I needed to report their behavior but again, they were already having a bad enough time, so I didn't bother. Already felt bad enough about all the stuff I put the guy through already but, I've got a job to do. Pretty sure the admins were already dealing with the situation. I never got bwoinked so I'm all good. Just another day in shitcurity. AS FOR THE RIOTS. The round ended with the AI being pitted against the captain, AI obviously siding with rioters. Security was divided, some trying to arrest the captain, some trying to help captain. I believe the HOS remained neutral through the whole thing, and kept a fairly cool head despite the situation. Good HOS. Karma for him. I didn't know what the hell to do so aside from a few confused tase and handcuffs, I was just trying to prevent violence. I believe the captain ended up getting spaced. Shuttle was emagged. GAME OVER YEAAAAAAA!!! If anyone wonders why someone would primarily work security, notably I've read someone saying "Anyone who works security primarily is a masochist"...once you get adjusted to the stress it initially causes, and are adept at dealing with all the various situations that are thrown at you, it leads to a hell of alot of interesting stories. Seclife. EDIT: I explained this story to my spouse, and we've now decided any time we get in an argument where one of us is clearly wrong, when the party who is wrong realizes they are wrong they are to end the argument by saying "FUCK YOU! I KNOW SPACE LAW!"

NT Balloon comes with Green Alert ERT. It's just a guy with a balloon who shouts moral-boosting things.

Balloon Warz We need more people who think like you

You say "ZN, I see your backpack SBR and raise you duct tape" well played. Haven't run into any vamps that smart yet. YET! Security evolves, vampires evolve The constant battle between sec an antags trying to out think each other lol

Glare > Duct Tape > Stunprod > Cuff. The chances of someone getting out a shout in that time frame is pretty low. You just need to be quick with the items and of course have them on hand. But that's not too difficult. The only annoying part is getting someone down without someone else walking in on you. I personally think vampires could do with some tweaking - because yeah, fuck monkeys, but I feel they're one of the more balanced antagonists. They don't have immense killing power, especially early on, but they don't need to. I feel like an auto-successful-abduction ability would be too much, personally. They should play like clever ambush predators pouncing at opportune moments, not charging in and dragging people off into the depths of maint with zero counterplay. Edit: Actually, Rapidvalj's idea looks AMAZING. Scratch what I said about tweaking I am fully onboard with a complete rework.

I would love a caste system totally not stolen from world of darkness pen'n'paper nerd game. Some gather an army of thralls, some are more monster than man, some are sneaky beaky and then there's nosferatus that are just absolutely terrifying creeps. Their thralls would have some of the characteristics of their master's caste. I would also like the vampire to be something to actually fear, like wizard levels of ridiculous. Thralls would be more like the current tase-lase'n'space kinds of minor annoyances that our vampires are. Also, a system where the vampire needs better and better blood to sustain itself or get more blood points! Itty-bitty and kinda shitty starter vampire? Suck on a monkey you disgusting wimp. Reason to fear the night -vampire? Need actual humanoids! Sir Von Spookalot the IV? Need a humanoid of your own species! Blood types matter? Sinful vampire-on-vampire feeding? Don't know, I would like to see thralls get some use other than portable bloodbanks. Rest is just rambling and semi-drunk flow of ideas

Make them not an EoC so they can RP like they used to instead of being gunned down.

Achilles heel isn't any good when the only place to get flashes are gone, new meta is to empty tech storage at round start, the disabler spam is ridiculous too but manageable. Bets thing to do is just avoid them. Anyway you want to bash the borgs? TACTICAL. TABLES. Works everytime.

I am shocked, just utterly shocked, that no one has yet said "Im ded pls nerf". We won't be outright removing sec borgs. That's just silly. Don't be silly. Nerfs might be due. But considering they can be flashed, emped, have their laws messed with, and that there is literally a button you can press to destroy them, I don't think it's that needed.

They die in space cause that's the only place they're exposed to direct sunlight, which traditionally is a vampire weakness. I really like the VtM inspired ideas, but I feel like the admins are reluctant to enforce the limited knowledge one. The other ideas all sound great though.

Obviously make them unable to get usable blood from humanized monkies. Make blood-sucking a power, and make it more obvious. Perhaps make it resemble what it would look like if both the vampire and the victim initiated a grab on each other, as that would be rather distinct. Make the blood-sucking automatically stop when the blood threshold is about to reach an unsafe level, requiring a re-activation of the power to continue draining, which will kill. Institute the 'Vampire: The Masquerade' style mechanic where the victim has no memory of the attack. Big, big font while the draining is happening stating their in-character expectation while their voice is lowered to a whisper. Alternatively, a way to easily mask their identity that can be toggled on and off. An alternative to thralling that can be used on mindshielded targets that simply makes them unwilling to take hostile action against the vampire, perhaps due to supernatural fear. Lower blood cost on thralling. Choosing what powers you get!! Again, VtM would make for great inspiration. Holy Water no longer does damage or suppresses powers, and instead drains usable blood. (Makes vampires more reasonable to imprison)

It's piss easy to stop a secborg. Just flash it. A mob of them I can see being a problem, but so would a mob of lethal armed security. That said, people need to practice running more often too. That includes flashing a secborg and just getting the hell out. People don't need to try and kill everything they run across... sometimes it's better to just disarm/disable and RUN. One part I am in agreement with: greatly increasing the heating on the disabler. Even without rapid disabler cooldown, it's still pretty spammy.

A competent crew makes Shadowmemes a joke. Security borgs have plenty of hard counters and downsides, and very little to merit their removal. If we accepted the argument that they're overpowered, then every borg is - Mediborgs have a set of unstealable surgical tools always on hand, Janiborgs basically make the Janitor jobless, Engineering borgs have unstealable power tools AND an RCD. The only exception is the Service/standard borgs, and they are pretty much utterly useless.