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How about to make things more interesting, how about power might flick on in certain areas for about a minute or two, for the entire purpose of moving the crew around and forcing the zombies to hunt for the spots that flick, the flicks might even provide some salvation in the form of some vending machines turning on or a youtool gaining power

Eh, why not. May or may not be SS13 related, though I usually post my other stuff elsewhere To start, there's this:

Honestly...I learned how to do this by accident one time because I was having a UI problem where I had to reconnect (hence sleeping for a moment) and when I reconnected, I had dropped whatever I was holding on the floor of the pod.

We'd need Regens or a head staff to pin it, I believe. Could be nice, as it's something we need more work towards. I'll state that this moment, progress is a little slow as I have been utterly focused with studying and Arma 3, but I do have the base-line of security planned out. I just need to do perma and the bathrooms I want, really. Then the AI satellite is next.

Looking very good, can we pin this thread so it doesnt get drowned?

Why haven't I tried this before?? Better than holding the backpack awkwardly in my hand. Also, exosuit jetpacks would be a godsend for pod pilots. Life is already dangerous out enough in space without having to play inventory tetris at the same time!

Couple more things, not Spessmens related though

Hello, this is my re-make of this post. I am still covering all my points and adding a couple in, but it should be a lot less long winded. We are. We are saying that rather then trying to nerf them, you should try and strategist better when fighting the borgs, there are Technics that work. I also want to start off by saying that security borgs are still security members and should follow SoP to the fullest they can. If they break SoP in a way that is way un-needed and would net them a job ban as an officer, tell an admin. Now, you say borgs are too powerful and are too hard to balance. I do think borgs are very powerful in direct combat, but lack the means of investigating and lethal combat, and when compared to other borgs, are less lethal then almost all of them. So I will list some advantages and disavatages and talk about them in the context of shadowlings. Pros space proof Armored Can spam disablers immune to some stuns Add more players to security Can move through any unwelded doors Cons can be stuned with flashes and emps cannot move over tables cannot unweld doors cannot instant stun over distance combat is very power costly cannot field lethal weapons without illegal upgrades cannot benefit from "meme" combos like x-ray vision and an x-ray gun can be locked down or blown from R&D console inherently trusts robotics cannot arm non-security members in crises cannot search people and has to bring them to an officer has to listen to ai no matter what Yes, borgs are powerful, but are super limited. Some of their most powerful features like being able to go EVA asap is wasted on enemies that always stay in station and don't blow things up. As well, while they are armored, they need someone else to heal any damage done to them, even small amounts of damage can add up, not to mention if you do damage components, you effectively make the borg have to go to robotics for surgery. Disabler spam can be a problem and out of all of this, is most deserving of a nerf. Although, I personally don't think it needs to be nerfed, but that is just me. Their ability to go though any door is mimicked by officers who have the AI watching them. Counter to the believe that they are OP is the massive amounts of downsides I have listed. Yes, a lot of these may never come into a round, but the point is you have to make it, you can't just expect to not prepare and 1v1 a borg. Thralling science is clearly the best move to counter borgs as a shadowling. EMP shells might not be the most effective way to deal with borgs, but 3 shots hitting them from homemade shotguns will take a massive amount of energy from any borg, making them leave a fight early, not to mention if you thrall robotics, you can just have them de-brain the borgs and print out flashes to deal with any that they didn't get. Add onto this tabling up maintenance could stop them in their tracks and force them to call someone else in order for them to pass, grouping targets together. This is added ontop of the fact they flat out suck in lethal compared to both other officers and other borgs. A medical borg with a normal battery installed can do so much more damage then a security borg could dream of with a bluespace cell. Only with a illegal module installed do they start to bring enough firepower to a lethal fight, but by then, normal officers can be equipped with way more powerful guns and enhancements like x-ray, anti-drop, and adrenaline with guns like tesla revolvers, x-ray guns, AEGs, or backpacks full of conventional laser guns. Borgs also have one unique weakness, they can be blown up or locked down if you manage to take down or thrall the RD, eliminating them from the round with a press of a button. They also lack the authority and means to arm people who are trusted with weapons, preventing major pushes from non-thralled people in additon to not being able to check people for illegal goods like weapons which pull other people like officers away from hunting down thralls. As well if the AI doesn't want to play ball with the HoS/captian or they have different priorities, they may be forced to do meaningless tasks. If you are having problems with security borgs being powerful, be creative in dealing with them. While I know you were not in that round, nor was I, it sounded like they had the run of the station for a good while before the bots took it back. Why didn't anyone go to robotics and thrall one of them and tell them to just destroy the borgs when they come in or have them print out flashes. Why didn't they try tactics like putting tables in doorways to slow down or completely stop borgs, or when running from them weld the doors. Yes, 4 borgs can be a handful all at once, so why fight them all at once, why not find a choke point like a door or narrow hallway, they cannot move past each-other. It really feels like they lost not because of how powerful borgs are, but rather because of how weak their tactics were. You also bring up that they can increase the size of the security force by 50% with 4 borgs, and while that is true, the potential for shadowlings to increase in power is anywhere from 50-400% with the influx of people onto paradise. Where one group of shadowlings might have been able to get 10 people when there were 40 people in total on the server, they can get up words of 40 people thralled with 90+ crew members if they wanted to. This is only worsen by the increase in civilians leading to more people greytiding which takes up security personnel and leading to easy thralls. So in closing, I think that security borgs are more or less in a good spot, yes, they are powerful, in combat, they are a massive advantage even if they aren't super good at lethal damage, but this isn't meant to be a hug box (feels odd saying that) for antags to run circles around security but rather its meant to be a struggle where tactics win more then sheer brawn.

*sigh*

Such a situation forces antags to learn how to go around something. If I have four security borgs against me, then I will not sit at maint doors hoping that a random greytider goes in, instead I will instruct my thralls to lure individuals DEEP into maintenance where it will take security longer to respond should I be discovered. The issue with antag players currently is that they do not plan ahead, if I'm going to storm the bridge I will emag my escape route doors and ensure that I have an escape to space with a hardsuit ready whereas most players will just dive the bridge and hope for the best. Prep work is key to becoming a good antag, it's not all how fast you can push over that seccie chasing you. Another big part of it is creativity, if you do something unexpected it's much harder for security to react properly.

Here's a new one. Hot off the presses. I'll name this one "Riot or Wrong?" I'm an officer, early on we catch a traitor with a pen sword and emag who attempted to kill someone. We put em in perma. Captain orders we borg them. There is some opposition amongst command that delays the borgification but it finally is complete. The opposition was made public somewhere along the way and riots began in front of the bridge. It was really confusing for a while but at some point security needed to don riot gear to break up the crowd. We told them to disperse, some refused, we began arresting, uncuffed rioters began dragging cuffed ones away, a civilian who, as far as I knew wasn't a rioter, started dragging a cuffed rioter off. I tase and cuff them, another officer gets the rioter, I start bringing the civ to the brig. Here's where it got...interesting. in LOOC they say "Why am I being arrested? I've committed no crime, answer or I'll AHELP" I stop and IC I say "you are being arrested for helping a criminal, you tried to drag away a cuffed rioter that we were arresting" I can't remember what was IC or LOOC at this point but from this point forward there was a mixture of the two with them telling me that's not a law, I'm not allowed to search them. Despite them being SO cooperative I say I'm going to search them and if they have nothing on them they get off with a warning. I find a stunprod on them. Tell them I need to brig them for weapons possession. They keep arguing IC and OOC that I can't do this, so I say in LOOC "Alright I'll amuse you, I'll AHELP this" I end up MHELPing explaining that I've arrested a civilian that was helping a rioter get away, am I allowed to arrest and search them? Mentors get back saying "yes, aiding and abetting." So I've now confirmed with mentors I'm in the right, inform the civ in LOOC, they continue arguing. I confiscate the weapons, bring them to a cell, and say all I'm gonna brig them for is weapons charge, 10 min. I COULD have given them another 10 for helping the rioter and lack of cooperation but I felt bad cuz they were already in a bad mood. Before leaving I say in LOOC "while you are in your cell, go read space law, look up weapons posession under medium crimes, then scroll below capital crimes and find aiding and abetting" They respond in LOOC "Fuck you, I've read it enough...I'm right..also 'while you are in your cell?' ICKY OOCKY!" I respond "ICKY OOCKY? Like asking me why you are under arrest in LOOC? or arguing the arrest in LOOC?" He's says "FUCK YOU" admin turns off LOOC Sort of felt like I needed to report their behavior but again, they were already having a bad enough time, so I didn't bother. Already felt bad enough about all the stuff I put the guy through already but, I've got a job to do. Pretty sure the admins were already dealing with the situation. I never got bwoinked so I'm all good. Just another day in shitcurity. AS FOR THE RIOTS. The round ended with the AI being pitted against the captain, AI obviously siding with rioters. Security was divided, some trying to arrest the captain, some trying to help captain. I believe the HOS remained neutral through the whole thing, and kept a fairly cool head despite the situation. Good HOS. Karma for him. I didn't know what the hell to do so aside from a few confused tase and handcuffs, I was just trying to prevent violence. I believe the captain ended up getting spaced. Shuttle was emagged. GAME OVER YEAAAAAAA!!! If anyone wonders why someone would primarily work security, notably I've read someone saying "Anyone who works security primarily is a masochist"...once you get adjusted to the stress it initially causes, and are adept at dealing with all the various situations that are thrown at you, it leads to a hell of alot of interesting stories. Seclife. EDIT: I explained this story to my spouse, and we've now decided any time we get in an argument where one of us is clearly wrong, when the party who is wrong realizes they are wrong they are to end the argument by saying "FUCK YOU! I KNOW SPACE LAW!"

Right, Vampire has always been second on my list of things that need reworks, after changeling. I have a ton of ideas for this, so I'm very happy you've brought it up. I was planning to make a forum post about it myself, actually. Straight off the bat, as I'm sure everyone can agree, we need to see the humanised monkey cheese go. Now that's out of the way, I have a few ideas. Primarily, I'd like to see Vampire be less "Traitor 2 electric boogaloo" and more its own, unique, antagonist. With different objectives, and different methods of play. Now, as much as many of you might see the server as taboo, and lets not go into the morals and ethics of it, Lifeweb does many things for their Vampires very well, and some specific things I would love to see implemented in some fashion. In Lifeweb, much like many SS13 servers, you gain blood by sucking it out of people, which fills up a bar, which then allows you to use certain abilities. A few things are drastically different however, for example, the blood depletes over time even if not in use. Vampires there have no standard organs bar the brain and I believe heart, instead they have multiple organs for "Vitae Storage". Vitae being the blood, which is used to store the blood for later use. If damaged, the vampire is unable to store new blood. Vampires must extend and retract their fangs for use, or disguise, and of course, they have a drastically different set of powers available to them. However, most drastically different, and what I personally would like to see, is the humanity system. In Lifeweb, Vampires start with ten humanity points. They lose points every time their bloodsucking, or any other action, leads to the death of a human. A few points down, or at very low vitae, they'll begin to have bursts of rage where their mob will become briefly controlled by a constantly aggressive AI, sort of like the greytide AI. Once they reach zero humanity, or a little above, they'll lose control permanently. While I don't think losing control to an AI is a very good idea for Paradise, I do think this system of a loss of humanity as you descend into a more bloodthirsty state could be implemented. However, instead of losing control for varying amounts of time, I think it'd be great to see the Vampires physical humanity become less and less noticeable. Sort of like the caste systems people have mentioned. Possibly, a full humanity vampire would look indistinguishable from the standard crew when their fangs are not revealed, with abilities that play to this, with things that are not so drastically brutal, yet still powerful enough to give people an incentive to play as a full humanity vampire. Maybe give only full humanity vampires the ability to turn others into lesser vampires, and give them abilities that aren't so aggressive, like hypnotisation, enthralling, glares, and so on. As a vampire kills more, their humanity would go down, and thus, their human like features would decrease, the stealth of their abilities would go down, and the aggressiveness would go up, until a point where a zero humanity vampire is essentially a bat winged, nosferatu esque monstrosity with no hope for stealth, with abilities concentrating purely on brute force, like increased melee damage, huge, always extended fangs, increased speed, and so on.

I would love a caste system totally not stolen from world of darkness pen'n'paper nerd game. Some gather an army of thralls, some are more monster than man, some are sneaky beaky and then there's nosferatus that are just absolutely terrifying creeps. Their thralls would have some of the characteristics of their master's caste. I would also like the vampire to be something to actually fear, like wizard levels of ridiculous. Thralls would be more like the current tase-lase'n'space kinds of minor annoyances that our vampires are. Also, a system where the vampire needs better and better blood to sustain itself or get more blood points! Itty-bitty and kinda shitty starter vampire? Suck on a monkey you disgusting wimp. Reason to fear the night -vampire? Need actual humanoids! Sir Von Spookalot the IV? Need a humanoid of your own species! Blood types matter? Sinful vampire-on-vampire feeding? Don't know, I would like to see thralls get some use other than portable bloodbanks. Rest is just rambling and semi-drunk flow of ideas

Obviously make them unable to get usable blood from humanized monkies. Make blood-sucking a power, and make it more obvious. Perhaps make it resemble what it would look like if both the vampire and the victim initiated a grab on each other, as that would be rather distinct. Make the blood-sucking automatically stop when the blood threshold is about to reach an unsafe level, requiring a re-activation of the power to continue draining, which will kill. Institute the 'Vampire: The Masquerade' style mechanic where the victim has no memory of the attack. Big, big font while the draining is happening stating their in-character expectation while their voice is lowered to a whisper. Alternatively, a way to easily mask their identity that can be toggled on and off. An alternative to thralling that can be used on mindshielded targets that simply makes them unwilling to take hostile action against the vampire, perhaps due to supernatural fear. Lower blood cost on thralling. Choosing what powers you get!! Again, VtM would make for great inspiration. Holy Water no longer does damage or suppresses powers, and instead drains usable blood. (Makes vampires more reasonable to imprison)

There are things beyond a player's control, it doesn't make them incompetent. It doesn't make your job harder, it just means you reach the capabilities of what you can do. It's not medical's job to save everyone, but to try there best to save them.

To help support this... Here's my process when I need to get out of my pod to apprehend a potential antag. Remove backpack into hand. Remove jet pack from exo suit alot and equip to backpack slot. Remove taser from backpack and put in exo slot. Use rest command to drop backpack so I can have 2 free hands (drop command doesn't work in pod). I now have at my disposal a taser, cuffs and keys in my pockets (if I don't lock the pod it may get stolen), and the stuff on my security belt. Need to leave the rest of my gear (meds, extra cuffs, second gun...cigs) in my bag on the floor of my pod for the sake of having 2 hands. So yes...please for a QoL Improvement, make jet packs usable from exo slot.

I think /tg/ just allows jetpacks to be used from the exosuit slot. Why don't we do that? Seems like a QoL feature, nothing else.