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Answers for: @Malphystoh and @Spacemanspark !!! Of course another special thanks to Tully.

Diona plant-b-gone buff when in that case? Or Kidan and bug spray? Because so far all the races with "Hard counters" take two shots. One puts you into a REAL fucked up state, and the other is typically a death knell. IPCs are not to pariy with those other races, and if you are going to sit there and tell me IPCs are more powerful then Diona, I am very sorry Fox, but that would be a MAJOR stretch of logic. Diona have strong melee attacks, they regenerate constantly in Light, are immune to space, don't breathe are effectively immune to radiation. They in exchange are slow as sin and are vulnerable to weed-killer. Kidan have clawed attacks, in-built body armor, glow in the dark (When naked at least.) and their downsides are no glasses, and bug spray is painful (Last I knew at least.) IPCs do not breath and are immune to radiation, can have body parts easily replaced and do not need welders. These are their objective upsides. Everything else is a double-edged sword or a nerf. a Side-grade (As intended) Chem immunity, means immunity to a lot of meme chem deaths, sure. And also means they have NO form of rapid healing, they cannot be SR'd or Cryox'd or use meth for speed bosts or what have you. They have easier access to "Bandages" with welders and cables but those are slow healing, have to be manually applied to every single body part and in large enough numbers CAN'T heal them, requiring "Surgery" to repair the internal damage. They are immune to Virus's which also means they can't make use of healing viruses that are made all the time, no brain damage immunity, no constant regeneration with Toxic comp and toxin healing. They ALSO take hugely increased damage. This "IPC OP" meme is getting old and stale that salty people use because they can't be bothered to change their "Sick powergamer strats" because it IS an IPC they have to gank instead of a human. If 1 extra click from an antag is 'Make or break' for balance we have bigger issues we need to solve, because this is a stupid argument. From an antagonist perspective 1 EMP still puts the IPC into a helpless state. If you can't kill a helpless/stunned, near dead IPC, you don;t need to play antag. From the IPC's perspective 2-shot EMPs, mean you have a ghost of a chance to survive incidental EMPs from not antagonist sources, like the engine or other environmental causes. On top of all that, nobody has said to LOSE the EMP Vulnerability. Just to make it match up with every other racial weakness right now, a 2 shot mechanic. Killing IPCs is NOT hard if you at all think about it, and it's not really any different then killing an organic, aside the lack of chems. If you leave their brain/body around they tend to get cloned, Defibbed or SR'd. Antags should learn to do Disposal.

There's so many things I want to say on this topic, though restrain myself from saying seeing as I know that I won't really get anywhere when I say them, as it's one of the more unpopular opinions around here that usually gets responded to with either that I'm salty, or that I'm just wrong. I'll go ahead and say it anyways, and I'll try to keep it short. The main thing about IPCs and how they're balanced sort of bothers me in the sense that people like to point out "all these upsides that they have" in justification of the major downsides that they also have. Though upon inspection, and you're open to disagree with this, the upsides that IPCs have are many, small quality of life things, a few middle of the road ones that are really great to have, but then two major downsides that really dampen those strengths. I'll try to explain what I mean in as short of a manner as possible because the last time I tried typing this it was over one-thousand words... • No Pain Extremely handy for walking over glass with no shoes (good) and not getting knocked down and screaming from a pain proc when someone hits you with something (very good). However it doesn't function really in the way you think it does beyond that. There is no pain-crit here like there is in somewhere like Colonial Marines, and as such pain doesn't mean that much. Normal races drop items from "pain" in broken bones, though so do synths when their arms are damaged enough. Not falling down from something hitting you (such as an energy sword) is good, though you'd need to have quick reaction and speed on your side to get away from it before it permanently downed you, seeing as you're made of paper mache. Suffering pain during surgery has zero downside as well, and is more of an RP thing at the moment, on top of the fact that they are still slowed down when damaged in the chest or leg region @Citinited • No Breathing (Immune to Oxy Damage) A few races have this, Dionae and Slimes being the other two that you can select. Useful against things like a lack of air or being choked. It's a nice thing to have, although in most cases it's simply the difference between wearing internals and not. Being choked on the other hand is a good upside from surviving wild greytide/traitor attacks, though the latter will more likely carve you up with an energy sword than spend his precious TCs on a garrote (or just buy the EMP items which are both costed at only 2 TC each). • Immune to Chems, Rads, Viruses (Immune to Toxins) All the things that plague the fleshy form. Such a great day to be robotic! Or is it...? Here's the catch on these things: they're fairly niche. Don't get me wrong, they're really convenient to have, but the instances in which being immune is actually noticed or considered an extremely good thing is few and far between. The most useful of the three is likely the immunity to chems, as it means Traitor McGee and his trusty RSG isn't getting you any time soon, but as mentioned before, he's likely not after you anyways if he's packing an RSG. More likely a flashlight. Spiders like to use venom a lot, though venom will only kick in if you survive a spider attack. The best case as both organic or synth is to run, as the poison will kill you if you survive, and you're unlikely to survive as an IPC unless you've got a good spider-killing tool. Immunity to chems also means none of the quick healing effects that they offer; even quicker and passive when compared to having to stand in place with welder/cable/nanopaste (which is arguably shorter than a visit to medbay). Of course chems require a bit of prepwork, equipment, and sometimes other people to acquire, though a savvy individual will always know how to get access to them. Donk pockets for instance are one of my favorites. Immunity to rads is good if you work engineering, though not much else seeing as the only sources of it are the singularity, SM shard, grav-gen, rad-storm events, and that traitor medical scanner that no one buys. Organics can avoid them by wearing a suit, so the real upside here is being able to be near rads without a suit, which unless you're in space doesn't mean a whole lot. Viruses are another rare occurrence, as most of the time a Level 7 rolls about it's something that's cured with salt or orange juice, and in the case of Brain Rot (the one 'deadly' Level 7), mannitol (which is an easy medicine to make). Virologists themselves can't release harmful diseases without being bwoinked unless they have hijack, and hijack virologist is not that common of an occurrence. Immunity to viruses also means no healing viruses, either. Though most of the issue here I feel is that our virology is really one-dimensional in the fact that diseases aren't impactful enough in addition to being easy to cure, on top of virology only being allowed to use biological warfare if they're something like hijack. Lastly there's genetics. The decloner (which doesn't have an often enough debut) won't work on you, you can work in xenobio with (mostly) no fear of the slimes, and genetic powers are unavailable to you. • No Bleeding I will admit that this one is probably one of the stronger more useful ones to have, given that loss of blood can really shaft you. I would consider this one of the few practical strengths that IPCs have. It would hold more weight if they were a bit more hardy and could survive combat on the same par as everyone else. The only other race I know of that does this better is Dionae. • The APC's Natural Predator We rely on engineering and not a cook. That's really all this is. As of a recent PR, knock off our right arm and we're completely incapable of doing it at all unless we get back that limb and/or visit robotics. A quality of life thing that's been very slightly made worse than its previous variations due to recent PRs. • Can Survive Without a Head So this is one that I hear a lot from the opposite side, and it really bothers me. Surviving decapitation is a great, great strength. The catch: this would mean so much more if this wasn't a daily occurrence for a race whose limbs stayed attached about as well as a lego set. Decapitation to an IPC also means different things than to an organic, so comparing the two is like apples to oranges. Removing their head is effectively just blinding them, which can be done to anyone with eyes and a screwdriver in nine hits. IPCs don't go blind after nine hits from a screwdriver, but their head does pop off after eleven. You could pop it off in roughly four with a toolbox, whereas you'd need something heavy duty like a chainsaw or dual-bladed energy sword on anyone else. The decap proc to organics is RNG, though if whatever you're swinging does enough damage, it'll knock off a synth's head in one hit. The same's true for practically every other limb they have, especially the hands and feet. In the end, this practically just means that you can blind an IPC (in addition to removing their ability to call for help on their headset) much easier than you could anyone else. • Can Repair Yourself I touched on this one briefly in a previous point. Very handy to have, albeit tedious as you need to target every limb, actually have access to a welder (which disappear often in the presence of civilians) and cables; and in the case of limbs popped off, a buddy and a table. This is the same for anyone else who's repairing you, though it does go slightly faster, but with the same tedious targeting ordeal. A good strength to have, though overall is better for prolonged engagements, and would mean much more if you didn't stack on damage and lose limbs harder, better, faster (not stronger) than everyone else. • Don't Decay Basically just that. We don't decay and we can be brought back with enough welding fuel and cable wires. Ultimately this means death is an inconvenience, but only if we get found by someone who can save us (you'd be surprised how many people do not know how to fix a robot). It's our version of cloning, and we don't have an "auto-process" feature either. Better to have early in the round as opposed to when science has upgraded the cloner. If you get debrained, you can't ghost at all for fear of losing your ability to re-enter the round at all, as posibrains are a ghost role. Normal brains aren't, though I'm unsure if ghosting from one prevents you from re-entering it (someone will need to help clarify this). • Weak to EMP Everyone's pretty familiar with this one so I'll not really say too much besides that it goes through walls, has a nasty tendency of popping out of nowhere (changelings + EMP implant), and is widely accessible (uranium+iron mixes, ion rifle, cult rune, traitor/nukie items, changeling screech, singularity, and if you're silly enough to get near it, the EXPERI-mentor). • Increased Brute/Burn Damage 50% more in both regards. Most races only have one or the other. We've got both. The highest brute mod of any race, though not quite on burn (slimes take 300% more cold, while Drask take 400% more burn if I remember correctly, though this is to specific types of heat. The burn mod on IPCs however takes into effect both, which covers a slightly larger range than the other two, placing them in a de facto third place for highest burn weakness). What does this truly mean though? Their limbs popping off is mostly thanks to this, as is their ability to die extremely fast. Immunity to oxy and toxin damage is great, though they're the two least common forms of damage in a game where combat is a frequent occurrence, the two most common forms of damage being brute, closely followed by burn. This is where that "practicality" thing I mentioned comes into play. If you just look a the surface of things: yes, IPCs do have the most strengths compared to any other race. Though when you sit down to really analyze those strengths, you find that only a few of them mean a whole lot of anything outside of convenience, and the ones that do are made not nearly as effective due to their two major weaknesses. In my humble (and likely disagreeable) opinion, if the brute/burn mod was cranked down a notch, and the EMP tweaked to where it was still your bane (two strong pulses as opposed to one, which is still better than plant-b-gone for dionae due to its ability to transcend walls in addition to an AoE radius), but wasn't one-shotting you through a wall, then they'd be in a more balanced position. Also, whoops, remember when I said I'd keep it short? Well I tried, and I didn't necessarily lie, but oh well. (edit): • Don't Go Blind From Welding I mean it's handy, but again, something you can completely avoid as an organic with welding protection in the form of goggles or a welding mask. If anything this is a benefit to if you don't have access to these things and you're trying to keep stealthy by not asking for welding protection so no one knows you're welding. Chances are though that no one truly cares, though. I mean I always wear welding protection even as an IPC because the white flash is highly annoying and "effectively" blinds you for three or so seconds, which isn't good if you're trying to keep an eye out for things.

In response to this thread: I decided to take @Dragnoir 's description of Stuart's room and make it. For shame Stuart, a picture of Olivia? Is that a blow-up doll I see under your bed? How LEWD. I'm really disappointed in you...

Dealt with.

That's uh...that's a lot of purple...mhm. *Ping @shazbot194

It's as wonderfully trashy as I imagined, thank you so much for this.

Pain really does not cause a whole lot of stuff. Not really a buff that matters, but a very very small one, granted. Cloning. Just dump them in a machine and it does the work for you. Feed them a pill and they get up. Put a defib unit on their chest then toss them in cryo. Not a buff, a side-grade. Everyone needs to eat except Diona. IPCs eat at an APC, humans eat at a vending machine/Kitchen. A single IPC can knock an APC down to 50% capacity pretty easily too. This is not a buff, a side-grade. Can lose their head and not die from it. And be blind and much worse until a head is replaced, and it and other limbs also pops off like a Rock'em-Sock;Em Robot's. I'd rather have my head harder to detatch then die in 3 hits to the chest. Bleeding comes up so infrequently on paradise, I sometimes wonder if it really wouldn't just be better to ditch it altogether. But regardless, they're NOT immune to "Organ" problems as they HAVE organ equivalents in their chassis. Microbattery = Heart, etc. The only time bleeding ever comes up is Vampires or Internal bleeding, and vamps have bigger problems and internal bleeding is by far one of the rarest cases to come into medical bay. Immune to Toxin and Oxygen damage. You mean the things I mentioned in the very post you're quoting me where I said those WERE part of their upsides? Cloning damage has maybe three sources in the entire game, and it literally is fixed by putting someone in cryo, which ALSO fixes every other thing wrong with them, except bones. Having a Language is *NOT* a buff, and if we're going to try and make fucking Trinary out to be this huge advantage, I'm going to openly mock people who try it, because the IPC OP Salt meta will be complete at that point. Every single race has a language, save for Plasmamen, even humans. That no one else can understand So please just don't even. Welding immunity was also listed. A bunch of upsides that have to be balanced somehow. By EMP Vulnerability and taking fuck tons of extra damage. Again, you;re spinning things to make it sound like I and others are trying to Get EMP vulnerability removed entirely, so that you can people on your side, and in so doing misrepresent the facts and mislead people, and frankly this is an old schtick from a lot of people and it's getting real old. The salt mine needs to fucking stop so we can at least have a fuckin discussion about it, without people instinctively going bucking up or dishing out ultimatums.

Because the intent isn't to nerf Antagonist EMPs, but Envrionmental EMPs, things like the engine or more incidental sources like the Experimentor. Something that won;t 1 shot kill someone, but put them on their ass for a bit before they get up. To an Antag, they may as well be dead, they're harmless and helpless. To someone just doing work and having one go off nearby, you have enough HP to survive one. I've given up on trying to get EMPs themselves adjusted because Paradise has had a hate-boner for silicons for ages an that's a lost cause I'm not even going to try out. But enough to survive a single EMP (With stun time) wouldn't exactly kill any balance and be a nice QoL change.

A house favourite.

Glad you like it.

*Ping Also, Holy crap thank you so much, this is sooo amazing... *breaths in* I will so be liberating this for profile pictures.

Another post about IPCs My previous post about this in another thread. (The posts after it actually mostly talk about IPCs)

Humor me for a moment. Why would this have to be the case?

Even better/worse. So the non-asshole guide would be, beat the shit out of the positbrain/flurosulpheric acid the brain.

Got caught as a traitor, knew what I had to do when I had an e20 in my backpack. Destroyed both my steal objectives in the process, but it ended up gibbing around 8 people. Died a glorious death.

New character to ask questions to? Who doesn't love 400 years vintage lamp!!

@Desolate

@Garoon

This happened a month ago, it was me, Ide Taro, Slith-Skaar and someone else i forgot, i was doing xenobiology and i found green slime extract, we all became shadow people so we had to live on the maints from now on, it was pretty neat, first off we smashed some lights out in maints, we started in sci maint, then we migrated to old bar maint, i fabricated some spears for us so we can hunt food and prey, monkeys and lesser form animals which are soul less of course, we also had to go into the bar or kitchen to get food, steal it all for us, from what i remember it was five of us, security was informed about us and they went into maints bothering what we were doing, we kept yelling them to turn off lights but they didnt listen, so we had to run and they thought we were bad people, us as shadowpeople tribe, we had to spread dark, we broke some lights by the chapel and escape claiming it our territory. We also did this on other round, i had extracts to ask people if they want to be in, came big and our home was in Old bar, but some scientist found it funny that he could bomb us on Old Bar. I found it quite amazing round, the first one because we were like cavemans, we had to survive by our own.

USE A TITLE LIKE THIS: "Banned by ADMINNAME: Ban appeal for [YOUR BYOND USERNAME HERE]" EXAMPLE: "Banned by Regens: Ban appeal for [insert ckey here]" IC NAME: The character name you used when you got banned CKEY: This is your username on BYOND DATE OF BAN: Date you were banned, shown in the ban message you get when entering the server ROUND ID: Also shown in the ban message. May not always be present. Looks like a number, e.g: 12345 DURATION OF BAN: Also shown in the ban message. E.g: "until appealed". ADMIN BYOND KEY: The admin who banned you. Please type '@' in front of their name, so it looks like this: @Kyet. If you don't know which admin banned you, ask one of us privately to look it up for you. REASON FOR BAN: The reason as to why you were banned. Shown when you connect to the server. DO NOT edit this, quote the exact ban reason shown when you connect. YOUR APPEAL: Explain why you think we should unban you. The best approach is generally to read the rules, then explain which rule you broke in your appeal, explaining why you won't do it again if unbanned. If you're truly convinced you never broke the rules in the first place, you could alternatively explain why - but that approach has a much lower chance of success. Try hard to identify which rule you broke. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ EXAMPLE: IC NAME: Grayman Tide BYOND KEY: Greytide16236 DATE OF BAN: 7/9/13 DURATION OF BAN: This is a permanent ban ADMIN BYOND KEY: Regens REASON FOR BAN: Insulting people YOUR APPEAL: I broke rule 1, and openly insulted another player in OOC. I am sorry I lost my temper and did this, and will not do it again.