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Empirically, drones are an incredibly difficult role because they were designed to be hands off fun little things for ghosts to do but the reality was much different. In fact, tg just removed drones entirely cause they were too much of a mess for admins to handle. Drones even had a static overlay where they couldn't see who crew members were and tg STILL removed them. In the words of one of their admins, drones are "infinite all access ghosts that require admin micromanagement because they're only allowed to build and ignore people in a multiplayer game and they get in trouble when their buildings impact those other people in a multiplayer game" That's just drones on their own without being emagable. It's already extremely difficult to avoid interfering with the round as a drone, and now you decry the removal of the temptation to throw off those chains and become an agent if chaos that requires the attention of half the station to catch and destroy? My intention with the drone nerfs initially was to move them into a support role. I presented a bunch of nerfs that would work towards accomplishing that goal and also took some ideas from the PR discussion. Staff wanted to move the emagged drone into more of a targeted sabotage role, which I thought was pretty cool too. And I think you maybe right that five minutes may be too short to accomplish some forms of sabotage. However I'm tired of arguments that drones are just like any other convertible role. They are not. And no amount of theorycrafting is going to change the fact that this is empirically false, which can be attested to both by our staff and the staff of other servers, none of whom have antag drones and one of whom have removed maint drones entirely.

I'm talking about 'attack' here in the context of debate. Questioning the motives of one making an argument rather than the argument itself is the literal definition of an Ad Homiem attack, which literally translates to "To the person." The motives of someone making an argument are entirely irrelevant. Either their arguments have merit or they do not. If they do not, you should be able to logically explain why they do not. And if they do, then the argument should be respected for it's merit, regardless of the motivations of the one making it. This is the very basic bedrock of debate and discussion. Bringing up the intentions of the other party doesn't mean you're neccessarily wrong, but it is beside the point and a distraction from the actual debate. Anyway, sorry for the tangent. Let's actually discuss the issue. The crux of your rebuttal as I understand it is trying to compare borgs to drones by stating both could act to be intentionally subverted, and thus since emagging of borgs is okay, it follows that emagging of drones is also okay. If I have misunderstood your position, I apologize. It's true that conversion is a major aspect of Space Station 13. It goes even beyond Borgs. A player could want to be mindslaved into an antag, converted into a shadowling thrall, infected by xenos to become a larva... conversion is a major theme, and in all of these cases a player may attempt to intentionally by converted. I will need to demonstrate what makes drones unique in that they should not be convertible while other roles should be. I argue that it comes down to two major differences inherent to drones. 1. Drones are an unlimited resource that can spawn into the round at any time without any action by someone already in the round. If a Borg is destroyed, they must wait to re-enter the round until repaired. Emagged borgs that are detonated usually have their posibrain destroyed in the process and so are out of the round until someone builds a new borg. If the crew wants to stop building borgs, because they are constantly being subverted or the AI is malf or for whatever reason, they can do that. Borgs are more akin to golems than they are to drones in that they can only enter the round when a player already in the round allows them to. This makes drones unique in that they are the only convertible thing that can be endlessly spawned at will by players with no input from the player already in the round or from the triggering of a specific event. To give an example of this in fact, it used to be possible to convert simple mobs into cults. There is a well known story of the cultist mouse which occurred when a mouse happened to be on a convert rune and was converted into the cult. While it was a funny event, the result was that a PR was quickly put through to make converting of simple mobs impossible. Despite this, golems were not changed in the same way, and can still be converted into a cult. One could argue it was simply a matter of realism as a golem possesses the necessary intelligence to be converted while a mice does not. However, there is also a strong mechanical reason for the distinction here. Mice can be infinitely spawned without any input from players, whereas golems require a player to create them. I think it's basic design philosophy that there simply should not be a convertible role that can spawn infinitely without any impact from the players already in the round. 2. It is much harder to establish a pattern of behavior for attempting to be converted with drones than for other roles. Your assertion that drones have the same level of oversight as a Borg is patently false. You pointed out exactly it's false why when you explained how the drone console works and how it doesn't detect emagged drones or allow remote termination like the Robotics console does. This is beside the point, however. The argument was not related to player oversight in an ingame sense, but rather the the ability to detect players who are intentionally attempting to be emagged. Drones spawn whenever they want, usually in an isolated or low traffic area. They have generic names with only a number identifier and that number changes every time a drone dies and respawns. A borg, by comparison, has to be created by a player, usually robotics. The AI gets a notification whenever a new borg is created. Borgs have unique names, a selection of module and a selection of sprite. Borgs can interact with the crew, whereas drones are isolated. In short, borgs are distinctive and drones are generic. Additionally, borgs have specific jobs based on their model that determine where they should be and what they should be doing. Borgs have a boss, the AI, who should be monitoring them and even gets an info panel to help do so. Drones do not, the AI can't even talk to them beyond pinging certain area for repair with the fabricator console. If a borg is doing weird things and not their job the AI is far more likely to notice, as compared to a drone which it might not even be aware exists until it happens to see it on cams. Even in a situation where a drone's behavior has been recognized as suspicious, it's much harder to prove anything. If a crew member runs into maintenance as soon as people shout cult or shadowlings, it's pretty noticeable. Borgs, like crew, have specific jobs and specific places they should and shouldn't be. Drones not only don't have anywhere specific to be or not be, one could argue that since their laws say not to take a interest in the affairs of any being other than drones that they are required not to consider danger when deciding where to go or not go. Drones have a lot more deniability which makes it easier for them to get away with trying to be emagged, far moreso than borgs. These things make drones unique among convertible roles, and provides a very real distinction between drones and borgs.

Nobody knows the terror that was the Ebow + esword combo

I've literally taken down desword users with nothing but a baton and bolas. If you can't manage it >git gud Sec has a massive arsenal to deal with them. If they have a bowman and sechud, you can still pepper spray them. If they are wearing a mask, you have bolas. The clown and janitor have slip items you can easily commandeer, not to mention BEAR TRAPS. If there is a miner get their KA, it ignores the block rate and just aim for a hand till it breaks while kiting. Non-sec can throw crap, use pneumatic cannons, disarm spam in groups to keep flanking, or just literally throw someone at the desworder to garuntee knock them down and allow you to run up and snag the sword or just pummel the tator tot into oblivion. What the hell is with the nerf frenzy on paradise trying to hugbox items that have literally been in the game for years.

You're also comparing TG style drones to our more Bay-style drones, those are RADICALLY different systems. for one, Drone shells had to be built by crew, and secondly TG style drones DID NOT have a "Drone management console" like our more Bay-style does. They were, essentially, spiderbots with hands. Anyone who has ever made a spider-bot can tell you all the ways that can fucking go wrong. TG-style drones also had no inbuilt tools at all, they had storage, and everything else they had they had to go pick up around the station, which is also WAY easier to "Interfere" with, when you are looting engineering/science of it's resources. This is a comparison of apples to oranges. Just because they share the name "Drone" and had the same goal, the functions they took to get there were wildly different. And, as has been pointed out a lot over the years, we're not TG. We have a very different player base with a very different mentality, with a very different stance taken from administrators. These things do not compare beyond a superficial manner of comparison. So, yes. I decry the removal of game systems when the opportunity to improve them and work them into a more healthy state with minimal effort was right there, and I wasn't the only one decrying it. The temptation to do 'bad things' is all over SS13 as a base game, let alone in Paradise's serverbase. If we're going to start coding things out because "People might be tempted" then you better gear up for a whole lot of coding because boy-howdy there's a LOT of systems in this game that give you the chance to be an asshole that kinda just works on the honor system that people won't abuse it, or face the pain train of a banhammer. But you don't go around doing that because that is usually an objectively terrible idea that NEVER works out for the better. You cannot empirically prove a single thing, because the very nature of what you are saying is subjective. In your own argument, and in that PR it says as much that what was "Interfering" to one admin, was kosher with another, that's very damned definition of 'Subjective' so don't try and make it out like your opinion is an objective fact, because it is just that. It is not some scientifically proven fact, don't pretend otherwise. The 'Observation' you're trying to pass off as evidence isn't really applicable when the huge variation of settings exists.

Savage things.

Xeno-bio comes down to "How lucky are you?" when it comes to getting the color of slimes you want. That's not "Work" that's RNGsus, that's rolling dice to see how fast you get adamantine slimes. And since most xeno-biologists make Adamantine slimes fairly regularly, monitoring xenobiology does absolutely nothing to counter anything. That's like seeing and stopping an engineer form doing the solars because he COULD be trying to overload the power system. All you do is pop the golem rune in maintenance or in the cult lair instead of in the camera filled lab and congrats, free cultists. And 1 adamantine slime can easily pop out 9 cores, when Science does upgrades to the machines as they almost always do, again with no work on the part of that cultist. That's about as much work as buying an Emag and rolling the dice that a drone joins into the game and that you happen to run into it early on enough to be a help. And emagging a drone makes it VERY obvious something is amiss, given it gives drones literally evil red eyes, so it also, more often then not, gives up a portion of your element of surprise. If all you're looking for was "Counterplay" then these nerfs do absolutely nothing to achieve the goal you're laying out. It does nothing to prevent how "easy" it is to do, it just makes the act of doing it at all a noob trap to the antag, and a giant pain in the ass for the drone player. All you need for counterplay is to put emagged drones on the drone console, same as an emagged cyborg, so that if it becomes clear it is emagged, you remotely blow it. THAT is counterplay. It also subtly encourages certain playre behaviours without being an active misery, because it encourages "Sabotage bot" playstyles, which was, according to the PR, the goal if the entire thing. A stealthy saboteur is less likely to be caught and blown, a murder-bot is going to get got reeeeeeeeal fast. What we got was a sledgehammer to the entire concept because "I personally don't like it so it should go away". And THAT is faulty design work when far better or less invasive alternatives were presented, and not even my own suggests, LOTS of people weighed in with solutiosn that were far more palatable then this.

So... we should ignore motivations and focus on the merits? I've said that twice already, I'm glad we agree now. My half-assed excuses are in my previous posts, if you want to discuss them, feel free to scroll up and read them. Regarding your points, as I said the main issue is mostly about a ghost role that can infinitely respawn itself without any intervention from anyone alive in the round being convertible. Discussing power in SS13 is a really difficult call because it's a game where combat can be decided by a bar of soap. Anything being overpowered or underpowered will be highly subjective. What I hope we can both agree on is that they were effective in combat. And that's really all that matters to me. I don't think an infinitely respawnable ghost role that can spawn itself without any intervention from a player in the round should have the potential to be converted into an effective combat tool.

i ded plz nerf Is a very good summarization of the process where people are making changes to the overall balance of the game without first considering all the balance that is in place. You don't nerf d-esword because it can deflect most projectiles fired at it, because members of security are upset their tasers aren't working. You point out that there was still plenty of options that COULD have worked if the salty player didn't just want to hit every problem on the head with their preferred tool and call it a day. Drones have a number of weaknesses from their pitiful low health, blatant EMP/Flashbang rendering them immobile for a long period of time to their reliance on the piping network to get around. Tay's first suggestion was to remove vent crawling all together. Then they wanted to make them pAI with door access. Then we got the crap fest that is in the current build. I was the one who suggested the timer On the understanding that the other nerfs would be removed from the PR. Spoiler, they weren't. Which leads us here today, where people who supported the nerfs are still dancing around the question as to why they were necessary to begin with. If you're going to argue 'you just don't like the PR so you're argument is invalid' you could at least come up with some half ass excuse to why any of this was necessary from the get go.

Golems are a literally infinitely respawnable role, can be converted by cult and slings. I've seen far more golems used in this manner then I've ever seen emagged drones. And unlike the drone, the golem can't even try to evade the conversion if they aren't antag fishing. Drones on the other hand are rather obvious if they are antag fishing since the tator has to be at the fabber or the drone must track down someone they know to have an emag. I'm just constantly astonished people act like hack drones are a round ending event, I rarely see them, in 5 years of playing this game across multiple servers I can count maybe 20 instances of emagged drones and at least one group of those was a metacomm group that got banned years ago. I have to disagree strongly with this assertion. Tay's intention was to nerf hacked drones into the ground not because they upset the balance, but a because a few rare cases in which a hacked drone was able to damage the station in a manner nearly any emagged borg could. There is no sensible reason to throw multiple game changing nerfs onto a role, ignore almost all criticism in the PR, promise that only 1 or 2 of them is going to take affect and then just apply all of them. This is literally the same behavior that has seen tg borgs get nerfed into obsucrity. Not because they had some aspect of the role that was over powered, but because a few select players are so good at the role or game in general that they can reliable dunk less robust regulars with their knowledge of how the game works. Despite said roles having numerous hamstrings, limitations and hard-coded weaknesses that their opponents never bothered to get ahold because we can't have antags having unique flavors that bring different elements to the game ensuring that no single strategy, weapon or item is the end all be all for any valid hunting crew. In the end, Tay gave no reason for the nerf to begin with, saying 'they are too powerful and annoying' without citing any examples. Changelings and Vampires are too powerful and annoying to deal with, I don't see their powers nerfed into obscurity, do you? TL;DR the entire PR was salt i ded nerf plz without any consideration for what lead to it.

I did attack their idea, repeatedly, several times in the PR that brought the changes to begin with. There was never any real rebuttal to those arguments. I also gave alternative suggestions, I didn't just say "Idea's shit lol" and carry on, I provided thought out suggestions. Calling someone salty and saying they're letting it make them irrational is not a personal attack, it is absolutely calling into question the motives for WHY they're making their suggestions and motivations can be important to know. It's literally the entire reason that "i ded pls nerf" github tag even exists. If you disagree withsomeone, attack their idea, don't try to dismiss it out of hand because it was delivered in a way you don't like. The point of the maintenance drone is not to INTERFERE in the round, not have no impact, that notion is literally impossible. You cannot be involved in the round or exist in it and have no impact in it. Drones have engineering tools, can repair breaches/various items, can clean and even set up atmos layouts. ALL of those things impact a round rather heavily. If someone like an antag blows a hole in the station and a drone fixes it, it has impacted the round rather heavily, potentially foiling an antag's plot. If a drone repipes atmosia to be more effective, thus handling a plasma fire efficiently, it effected the round quite heavily. If it sets up the turbine/solars and helps power the station, it is impacting the round. By cleaning up a room of blood and gibs, it's potentially wiping away a crime scene before anyone saw it. That's another massive impact. Doing ANYTHING shy of being your normal everyday civilian RPing in the bar, is going to have tangible impact on the round. You cannot avoid a drone having impact in the round, by the fact it EXISTS, it has impact and always will, you;re taking that interpretation far too literally, or far too strictly. The goal is for them not to INTERFERE in the round, not to be seperate from it entirely. Earlier your quantification for "Emagging drones to work" was knowing that a drone didn't do so intentionally, that they didn't purposefully get themselves made an antag, but a positronic brain can do that EXACT same thing. They are both ghosts joining into the round, both can just as easily tell who is and isn't an antag prior to joining if they had a mind to. They are both designed to have impact in the round, just to differing levels. A borg can have MORE of an impact in a more open manner since it can talk. As for oversight, Drones have just as much oversight as Cyborgs, the problem isn't that they DON'T, the problem is the crew is too lazy to ever give a shit to do that. That shiny drone console in engineering tells you the location and name and status of every single active drone. It can be used to resync drone laws (Mostly a hold-over feature from when there was an occasional bug that caused drones to have borg laws instead of the KEEPER laws.) and to give a remote kill command to any NON-EMAGGED drones. Each drone has a unique number identification, and unlike cyborgs, blowing every single drone, while a dick move, is a lot less of a big deal, considering those non-antag players can also respawn. Currently, emagged drones do not appear on that console and are thusly, immune to it. Something emagged cyborgs can't say. That was why the number one suggested nerf was to have them show up ON that console and able to be remotely blown, just like a cyborg. Thus keeping drones from being tiny murderboner bots, because that's a great way to get yourself instagibbed. The choices taken to get to this point were illogical and irrational. Most people AGREED nerfs needed to be had, what people argued was for a series of smaller nerfs until we got to a good place, as opposed to taking a sledgehammer to the entire thing, repeatedly, in several areas all at once. Again, few people said they didn't need ANY nerfs. The problem was it was 3-4 all at the same time, instead of 1 or 2 to bring their power level down safely and slowly. It was all about a knee-jerk quick-fix instead of doing the job correctly and precisely.

Positronic Brains, mid-round join cyborgs. Still can't stop 'em from knowingly getting antag'd. And yet, you still don't give cyborgs a 5 minute lifespan. The current design is good for no one. It's terrible for antagonists, cuz it just broadcasts their existence. It's terrible for the drone who gets 5 minutes to live and if it's player wasn't keen on antagging to begin with, now has to stop everything it was doing for 15 minutes, the length of a major crime brig sentence, for doing nothing. It was a kneejerk reaction that went WAYYY too far. The alternative people gave wasn't even minor. Just make emagged drones appear on the drone console to be remotely blown, just like cyborgs. Now Drones have to play with a measure of caution, just like borgs, else they just get remotely blown. Why all this OTHER stuff happened is beyond me, the fix was simple, it was easy, it was the ultimate nerf that didn't ruin everyone's good time. But instead of going down the easiest, clear-cut path, we elected to take weird and horribly confusing paths to achieve the same goal an all we got was obnoxious design because of it. A Good compromise is one that everyone can live with and tolerate, that works out for both parties. This was never a compromise. This was one side's salt overdose hitting lethal quantities and letting it cloud their judgment with irrational thinking.

What about a traitor vox clown that trasnfers into science to be a traitor vox clown scientist then eventually becomes acting RD?

For me it's arrogant players that know little but think you are wrong when you are doing something they don't understand. But also and not limited to: Surgeons or even medics who claim ORs and keep the tools always on them. The CMOs who don't care about it or any other similar problems. Janitors who keep re-cleaning the clean floors of the main hallway just to have fun. Anyone who ask you how to play and don't give a shit about the wiki links you sent by LOOC. When a security officer see that you are standing still and stuns you without a word, on green, because you are needed at the brig to answer some questions or some other reason without any evidence. Players who commit suicide at roundstart for absolutely no RP reason (wait, is that ahelpeable?). People who go to long term storage at 12:15 without a word. Specially chemist, cargo techs, chefs or other important roles where they are really needed. Medbay patients that tell you how to cure them even if you are administrating a more suitable cure. They insists that they know better and get mad. New chemist players making empty pills/patches and refusing to learn when you try to help. Cargo techs who order medical supplies and weapons at roundstart for themselves just in case things get bad, and reordering the crates after the QM cancelled the first ones. People who left food plates with only one bit left. Then it looks like you are eating a lot when you are actually taking just the last bit of each plate and then everybody looks bad at you and the chef now hates you. People reporting cultist like it is a normal thing on the station because saw someone whispering twice. Security staff who forces you to take holy water for any minor crime not related to vampirism when there are confirmed vampires. Players who fell on a wet floor. You help them get up. They walk towards you, making you to fall on the wet floor they were. They walk away, nobody helps you. Stealing the piano from the bar. Stopping the really cool song you just started at the piano just to play moonlight sonata from the wiki. Electric guitars. Bartender who doesn't tend to the bar. Plasmamen who die and need cloning. Just ban them for dying. Someone stealing your arcade tickets.

As a medical main I shall first post the medical issues: Players who pick CMO and have never actually done medical work beyond, at best, basic surgery. Failing to realize they're meant to do the jobs that need doing in medical that others fail to do and instead believe their job is to have a bappy stick and sit in their office/lounge around/occasionally slap a band-aid on Greytide McJackass. CMO's who don't give chemistry their hypo, or even the omnizine in it, and proceed to use up the ominzine and random jackasses thinking it's a miracle cure drug that never runs out. CMO's that DON'T FUCKING TALK OVER MEDICAL COMMS EVER. Or comms in general, for that matter. CMO's that run around stealing patients, you combat them over it they either get all pissy in IC or LOOC stating 'I'm the CMO, I'm more qualified' or some other such. 2 minutes later that patient is in cloning. CMO's that don't even know basic chem/can't be assed to load up a damned wiki. Chemistry that doesn't know how to make Strange Reagent but can make Meth within 5 minutes. People who sign up with the Surgeon job title, know jackshit about surgery and take 20 minutes fixing a simple surgery. People who join medical to try and learn medical, but refuse any help from experienced players and also refuse to read the wiki thoroughly, thus leading to malpractice bay. Genetics handing out hulk like candy. Medical not knowing how to recharge a defib and saying it's broken. Medical taking the OR's tools for themselves, because clearly they're master surgeon and no one else should do anything. Chemistry making SR, but not making Synthflesh.

For the ID thing, I print shipping labels from the request console and make it go to HoP office by disposals

-Cultist buddies that attempt to summon Nar-Sie in obvious place with only 3 cultists alive. -Shadowling thrall buddies went outside maint without wearing mask. -Target to be assassinated suddenly join with security and stick around inside the brig for whole round. -HoS fed the crate full of laser guns to the blob. -HoS being still silence over code red or threats confirmed, acting like normal sec but with more access. -Security with replica katana and actually using it to perform arrest or attack. -Security baton/taze at speedy manner after the antag attempt to perform or in the middle of typing RP evil introduction. Or vice versa. Muh RP. -Warden kept guns for themselves and run off to fight without giving the rest to others officers. -Security kept getting taser stolen by random group of Greytide from mass disarm intent. -Silly Sec officer go alone fighting Vampire just only to be kill and looted making vampire even more powerful with sec gears and total compromise to Sec Comm. -Surgeon forgetting to wash hands. -Viro releasing "beneficial" virus but sneezing includes. -Silly goons who keep shouting Help over comm three times without details of location, scene or suit sensors. Died and disappeared. -Silly goons who salt so hard at Sec that begins to lecture over comm about Space Law and SoP after being arrested for their own crime or greytiding. -Silly goons that kept blocking sec front line only to be blocked from running behind then have sec dealing with close range situation or collateral damages against disasters which would eventually results everyone being injured or kill. -Bluespace banana peels. Bluespace Tomatoes. -Plasma constructions. -Metagaming Vox.

People that drag IPC's to the medbay/morgue The gagglefuck that inevitably forms in the cloner/cyrotube area. The cloner area especially can get cramped and it can get aggravating having people shoving you around and getting in the way while they wait for their metabuddy to get cloned. HoP's that ignore their line midway into the shift. Especially aggravating when I play coroner and I"m trying to follow SOP by turning in ID's of dead crew People calling "dibs" on a surgery bay or stealing surgery tools. Miners calling dibs on Ripleys. Heads that can't be bothered to help their departments out, or act like a task is "beneath" them because they're a head of staff Cliques and meta buddies People that just won't do the little things to help make your job run smoother. Cargo that won't get your crate or print you a tool, chemists that won't make mutagen, botanists that won't grow veggies for the chef, researches that won't print you stuff from the protolathe, etc. We've all run into it before a million times. When my damned internet drops connection every few minutes and I spend half the shift in SSD argh!! Doctors that don't know how to use the meds I stock in the fridge and bitch to me that it's not stocked. What's that, you're complaining that I didn't make silver sulf patches? How about using the tons of synthflesh patches instead? Why don't I have charcoal? Because I made pent acid and I know the nanomed still has plenty of charcoal bottles in stock. People that flee like lemmings into maint to get converted during sling/cult rounds

Mimefield gives you a gentle smile that implies that the Head of Security has been kidnapped by a changeling and was taken into old bar maint.

Mimes that use thier PDA or paper to communicate. Lazy mimes that are on the edge of using emotes to straight up talk instead of actually acting stuff out. Your have no actual responsibilities on the station, if you aren't capable of communicating what you need to through actions then you don't deserve to be understood...and quite frankly don't deserve to be a mime.

OH boy here we fucking go; Medical CMOs who cannot perform basic chemistry (don't know how to make perflu, mannitol, mutadone charcoal, cryox, synth or SR) and refuse to even try when there's nothing in the fridge CMOs who don't understand even the basics of their department (don't know what a clean SE is, don't know how to make vaccines, can't do chemistry or surgery) Any medical staff who don't understand what the basic healing chems do and their OD thresholds/if they have one (Bonus points if you're screaming at me for "overdosing" patients in sleepers on styptic) Prioritizing broken bones over Internal Bleeding Cloning people with low blood who are defibbable if you just put a little more into them Cloning people who are defibbable and only have minor injuries or easily fixed ones (bonus points if they died to 150 burn damage + suffocation) Cloning people with no attempts to repair the damage or acknowledgement that SR is a thing Gibbing people with SR because they don't know how it works/check the damage CMOs who threaten to demote you because you didn't make charcoal even though the fridge has 60 pentetic pills Medical staff who think because it can't be fixed in five seconds it isn't fixable and morgue people that can be repaired/transplanted/whatever Medical staff morguing ANYONE who isn't willingly refusing to return to their corpse/DNR Surgeons ignoring the person dying of internal bleeding in three places to fix their metabuddy with a fractured hand Surgeons leaving the operating rooms a disgusting mess covered in blood and vomit Surgeons hogging tools, bonus points if they keep them in their bag and get pissy when you tell them to put 'em back Surgeons that don't actually know basic surgery (just be a nurse dude) Coroners that don't tag morgue trays Coroners that refuse to do autopsies on murder victims Coroners that immediately steal corpses that haven't been cloned or defibbed yet Coroners that refuse to man cloning and then complain they have nothing to do Coroners that loot bodies Coroners that go SSD ten minutes into the shift because nobody's died yet Coroners in general Doctors dragging patients away from me Doctors dragging away people I'm trying to defib Doctors that let people die of blood loss in the cryotubes Chemists that take 50 minutes to make a single bottle of cryox or 3 mannitol pills Chemists that don't make anything for twenty minutes Chemists that make 10u SR pills Chemists that make patches under 5u Chemists that make addictive chemicals in pill form (IE, perfludecaulin, Teperone (lol who am I kidding nobody makes this), ephiniprine) Chemists who make numerous different units of the same chemical, bonus points if they're too small to be useful (3u styptic patches...) Chemists that remove the units amount from chems Chemists that rename the chems Chemists that make pyrotechnics and poisons for fun instead of medicines Chemists that blow up chemistry for shits and giggles Chemists that spam potassium + water Chemists that hand out space lube indiscriminately Chemists that immediately hog the syringe guns "just in case" Security Officers arresting people and leaving them in processing unattended Officers leaving people with no notes in processing Officers wordlessly permaing people for stuff that turns out to not even be permable Officers labelling people as EoC for toys/stickers More to come as I encounter/think of them

title, someone with a desword and flashbang protection is basically invincible unless you powergame with lances inb4 'salty', being unhappy something overpowered killed you doesn't make it not overpowered