Leaderboard

The new crit system has good aspects, I just think a revival method should be available if someone dies as you're working on them or if they die right before the paramedic arrives. The defibrillator reviving people with the click of a button was kind of dumb, but having no quick revival options is sketchy and un realistic. Again if anyone is taking suggestions I still think if someone dies they should be able to be revived by getting an epinephrine shot and chest compressions. Make it so it only works if they have been dead for no more than 1 or 2 minutes so it's not OP. Or have it the longer they are dead the more brain damage they accumulate until they can't be revived at all. I also like the idea of adding cardiac massage so if someone dies during emergency surgery you can start their heart manually but that's probably too specific. Epinephrine and chest compressions to revive is my suggestion. It's more involved than the defibrillator, would add to paramedic, is more realistic, would make triage more flexible during massive injury situations. As a small addition, giving the paramedic epinephrine at round start in this system would be good. Also I didn't realize until now but as said above, without the defibrillator heart, head and brain transplants can't be done. That's something to keep in mind.

A new critical system is on its way that is more involved, chaotic, and engaging to deal with--it's a long-awaited companion for Goonchem. This new system doesn't apply to all races--station races that do not utilize this new system are Diona, Slime People, and IPC; they will die using the old method of blacking out, slowly accumulating damage, then dying. Treating people is basically the same as before, with a few nuanced caveats. You apply patches or advanced trauma/burn kits to heal people, you inject them with chems to heal them, you can throw them in cryo to stabilize them. That said, how people lapse into crit will be fairly different. When your patient hits 0 health, they will lapse into a critical state where they can't see well, their movement can become scrambled, and they fall down a lot. During this time, they can acquire shock. Shock worsens these conditions. If shock is not treated, then the person will start undergoing cardiac failure. Treating shock can be healed by injecting saline or healing the underlying damage and getting their health solidly back into the healthy category. It's recommend you still inject saline as a primary tool, especially if they have heart failure (or you can't treat them in time while you're running to get some other medicines). Cardiac failure is even worse than shock; it'll become even more difficult to breathe, and if left untreated, will result in full out cardiac arrest. Treating cardiac failure is done with atropine or epinephrine. This condition will not go away by merely curing the underlying damage. You must treat it with atropine or epinephrine. Both chems are equally good at treating it; having both in the bloodstream, at once, increases the chances of treating it. Finally is cardiac arrest. When acquired, you'll flop on the ground and rapidly take brain and oxygen damage. Treating cardiac arrest can be done with full size defibs or the new handheld defibs. It it strongly recommended you utilize handheld defibs, as they're specialized in treating cardiac arrest. Death occurs primarily by brain damage; if the brain dies, your patient dies. A few helpful pointers and tips: -STOP RELYING ON CRYO. Cryo just heals damage, but doesn't treat the underlying conditions when someone is in a critical state. Time is your enemy under this new system; it's faster and better to apply patches (or advanced burn/trauma kits) or medicine directly to the patient than to throw them in cryo and wait for it to kick in and their body temperature to be low enough. Cryo should be used to stabilize patients who you don't have time to treat, but it shouldn't be the primary treatment method you rely on. -THERE IS A NEW HANDHELD DEFIB. Hanheld defibs work differently from full size defibs. They do not revive people from the dead. They purely treat patients undergoing cardiac arrest. They can also treat heavy O2 damage, so even if a patient isn't undergoing cardiac arrest, they are still useful for rapidly lowering O2 damage. Full size defibs cannot treat the O2 damage like handheld ones, and have a sizeable delay before activating; it's not recommend you use full size ones unless it's a desperate situation. -PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR HUD. A frowny green face is indicative of viruses; it could also mean they're in shock or undergoing cardiac failure. -CPR CAN SAVE A LIFE. CPR has been buffed dramatically under this system. It heals a significant chunk of O2 damage and completely resets the losebreath timer on a patient. In can really help, in a pinch, when someone is in critical condition. Don't expect it to save someone in full out cardiac arrest though. -Treating patients in deep critical is going to require a broad range of medications. It's strongly recommended you keep saline, epinephrine, mannitol, and salbutamol on you for dealing with deeply critical patients. Handheld defibs can help correct high amounts of O2 damage as can utilizing CPR, but handheld defibs can be unreliable at this task. O2 damage can accumulate incredibly rapidly, leading to a death spiral that will result in the patient's death in no time flat. In some situations, there will be cases where there nothing you can do. Treating a patient's damage is important, but always factor in shock, heart failure, and cardiac arrest into your plan of treating your patient, or else they're going to pay the ultimate price; their death. I'm sure there's more, but this should help you get a good start and help you treat patients on some level. Feel free to ask me any questions though!

The lack of revival methods is kind of baked into the new crit system. If it's easy to revive someone who dies on you while in crit, then them being in crit loses it's weight. That's kind of why revival methods and the new system don't really mesh well... which in turns leads to the 'shove everyone dead in the cloner' problem because once they're dead a doctor can longer interact with them in any other way. That's one of the reasons I no longer support it, after liking it initially. I feel like we have this really nice square peg we're trying to shove into a round hole, and since it doesn't fit we're just taking a saw to the hole until it does, rather than simply using a round peg. Also, it is still possible to do heart transplants, but you'll need to either be really quick or use Corazone.

Fucking. Ultra. Nerd.

So the dev's hate it, it doesn't get implemented. Dev's like it, it gets implemented. That's sadly how it is. Look at medbay and all that. The blueshield does need a buff. The validhunting is NO excuse, we have a rule for that and admins to enforce the rules. If that's not possible, change the rules or get more admins. Validhunting in general needs to be punished more severely, but I'll not go into that here. The blueshield is supposed to be highly trained. CQC would fit in that. Or some other form of training. If the blueshield doens't need CQC, IMO the warden doesn't need krav maga. Because that makes even less sense IMO. Blueshield acting like redshields should get reprimanded. The captain can also just fire them. We have OOC AND IC options to deal with validhunting. Witholding the implementation of new features should not be one of them.

Also in favor of this. I think there's pros and cons to having a glove form - it means making the Blueshield a possible target for his gloves via traitor objectives, and that adds more variety to traitor goals, not a bad thing. On the downside, he may become too much of a target for traitors (to those who don't even have him as a target) and might want his gloves for CQC, and he's already a prime target for the captain's spare that he may or may not have. Blueshields are easier to lure out than Captains. I think I would prefer to have the Blueshield inherently know the martial arts rather than a set of gloves for this reason. He's suppose to protect the heads of staff, not walk around with a big bullseye painted on his back because he's a loot pinata and end up becoming a far more tempting target than those he's assigned to protect.

It was satirical actually, as in an attempt to use humor to prove a point. I'm sorry you didn't like it, but it wasn't a dig at you personally. Let me try to explain to you where I'm coming from here. What I hope to avoid is medical doctors on Paradise becoming simply cloner operators. To that end, I want methods to actually treat people, not put them in a machine that just makes their injures irrelevant. There are two ways to do that. One way is to nerf cloning. The other (which I personally think is the vastly superior option) is treatment methods that rival cloning. Treatment methods skilled doctors can use to get people back alive and kicking more quickly and efficiently than cloning. So when you have newbie doctors they just throw everyone in cloning and it takes awhile, but if you have skilled and robust doctors they can use other methods to get people back alive and kicking. Who is staffing the medbay becomes vitally important and has a major impact on outcomes for patients. The thing is, this is exactly what people want to get rid of. The argument there is to nerf everything BUT cloning, so everyone has to use cloning. Then cloning won't be so good because there will be a backlog. By removing or nerfing everything but cloning, we actually in effect nerf cloning by creating pressure on it. If this isn't your actual argument, please correct me to what it is. That just seems to be my impression from what you and some others have said. I don't want to misrepresent you. That argument makes sense if your perspective is solely on the overall balance of how easy or difficult it is for people to get back into the round, and you don't care at all about how fun or interesting the medical profession is. If you do care about that, even a little, this option is disastrous. I'd also argue it's inherently flawed since the bottleneck can be bypassed by building additional cloning pods, but that's getting off topic a bit. So, why is that option so bad in my opinion? Before, everyone who came into medical who was dead for less than 5 minutes could be defibbed, and then you had a patient to work on and do your job as a doctor. Now it's 2 minutes. If the new crit system passes, everyone who comes in dead will be someone doctors cannot interact with beyond throwing them in the cloner or morgue. So the window of patients we actually have to do medical work on will become incredibly thin. We'd need someone who has taken enough damage for there to be something more for us to do than a few patches, but yet not taken too much damage to die. And we need them either not in crit, or in crit but arriving in time to be saved. Will there be patients like that? Sure. But a whole heck of a lot less than there were when you could treat anyone who died in the past 5 minutes. The majority of 'patients' won't be people doctors can actually do anything with beyond throwing them in a cloner or morgue tray. On other servers that might be fine. Maybe because on Bay there is a much larger emphasis on roleplay. Maybe lethal attacks are rarer, and when people do die, it's a lot more about the aftermath of being cloned and the necessary counseling for the mental issues that arise from it, than it is about the actual medical treatment. And maybe it's okay on TG because TG is more about the antags and the action they provide than how each department operates in a bubble. And maybe the medical system is designed more to get people back into the round fast than it's designed to be fun and challenging for the doctors. I don't play on those servers regularly, so I don't know. I do know that not everything that works on other servers works here, something we agree on when it comes to this critical system. And I do know that if the critical system goes through as is, and cloning goes through as is, doctors will largely be cloner operators with a very narrow band of actual patients who need to be treated. That's going to be a massive blow to what was a fairly good and rewarding medical system. That's why I'm really, really concerned with the idea of nerfing everything but cloning in order to pressure it. I hope you can understand that, even if you can't agree with it.

I agree completely, cloning isn't a problem at all. Doctors just need to get better at using ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS when it gets overrun in extreme emergencies (the only time it ever will be overrun). I'm tired of all these baldy doctors who think the only thing they can do is clone, when we have so many viable and robust ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS available. Let me all tell you a story about how it's really done. Let's say it's terror spiders or something and cloning is overwhelmed and bodies are piling up. As an industrious doctor who knows his shit I say "Ah! The cloner is overwhelmed! It's finally my time to shine as a medical doctor! I will not just piling bodies at the cloner, I will use the power of ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS to get everyone alive in no time and being a fucking MEDICAL HERO. Okay. So first I sift through the dead bodies. By now, most of them are ghosting. Some have respawned as terror spiders. Some have logged off. So I systematically drag them one by one to the morgue tray until I find purple lights. Ah! they're still logged in. I don't know if they want to come back to life, but hey this one has promise! So I SR them, and nothing happens, because they aren't in their body. So, I wait a bit and SR again. Still nothing. That's two SR pills down. Oh well. I move onto the next. Surely someone in this giant pile of corpses wants to come back and I'm going to be a MEDICAL HERO when I show off my ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS. So finally I find one that comes back. By now I've used up 6 SR pills, but hey, I got one! I rush them to Cryo and... huh, already dead. Try to defib. Uh oh. Heart arythamwasit? Oh, their heart is dead. Well, I'll just ask the friendly and responsive genetics department for a humanized monkey, since that's their job and surely my peers are as dedicated to the medical profession as I am. Oh, there's just one geneticist and he hasn't moved in the past 45 minutes. Well, I guess it's time to go hunt down tools and break into genetics. Okay, whew, someone else already broke into cargo, so I can get a multitool easily. I just had to dodge a few spiders, no big deal. Now, just a detour to learn the wires, shocking myself in the process but no problem, I got meds4dayz. Okay, hack into genetics, disassemble the window, grab a monkey cube box. Now just put it into the empty genetics scanner, mess with the last block, and aha a humanized monkey! Now, I could have taken the heart from it as a normal monkey but I know I'm going to have to replace the limbs, so might as well humanize it now while I'm already broken in. Okay, I have what I need. It's time to practice ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS. As soon as I find the body of my patient. I swear he was here just a minute ago... Well, let's go searching morgue trays. I sure hope he hasn't just logged out or respawned as a terror spider in the meantime. Oh lucky me, I found them and the tray is still purple. Okay, great, time do my thing! As soon as an OR opens up. I need to remove the heart and replace it, but both ORs are taken, because of course they are, it's a terror spider attack. So, I wait. and I wait. There's no formal queue here, and the living people are already screaming about the wait, I really can't bump them out to do surgery on a corpse. After awhile, a tiny hole opens up and I slip in and get started. The surgeon who was in the OR is now swearing at me for 'stealing their OR' and screaming to the CMO to demote me. Two patients in the waiting area with broken bones are swearing at me for treating a corpse when they're alive. The surgeon is now back trying to chain disarm me. We have an impromptu doctoral deathmatch for dominance of the OR, and the space gods favor me, and I now control the OR. Of course. I'm a MEDICAL HERO. Surely, when they see the power of my ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS, they'll all see the folly of questioning me. One of the living patients is now on the floor in critical with spiderlings pouring from them. Okay, take old heart out, put new heart in, defib... Oh right. It's been like 20 minutes now, way beyond defib range. But that's fine, more SR! Oh boy, the heart didn't die this time! Cryo them up, go back to the OR.. oh, it's taken again. Well, I'll just keep them in cryo until it opens up. Of course, since it's terrors and we have a bunch of critical people coming in, the other doctors aren't happy about me keeping a cryotube constantly occupied, and the Cryox is draining pretty fast, but that's just because they're incompetent baldies that don't know about ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS. Finally get back into an OR. Patient dies 3 times on the table, but I just keep defibbing to reset and eventually I have all the septic limbs removed, I've repaired their chest and skull, both IBs, and replaced their missing blood. The patient has no legs, and I can't replace them because terror spiders have taken over genetics and someone stole my humanized monkey. But, my patient is alive. I look down at him on the roller bed as I drag him to the shuttle which has now arrived because by now it's the end of the round. I tell him he has been saved by a MEDICAL HERO using the power of ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS. He asks me why I didn't just clone him. Urgh. I calmly explain to the half a person on the roller bed that cloning has numerous drawbacks. It can be overwhelmed, or tampered with! Yes, what we just went through was a much better option, and I'm sure, any day now, the rest of my fellow doctors will come to see that and start playing medical doctor the way I do. With the power of ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS. I don't get karma. tl;dr: Cloning is fine, it just needs to get overrun so Doctors will use ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS which are completely viable in the emergency situations that would lead to the cloner being overrun in the first place. SR is OP, it needs to take at least 10u to revive someone and the recipe should require a ground up chain of command. Spaceproof races are OP, nerf slime people. Death is trivial.