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Hi there! As someone who has done a lot of background work on or around sec, I get it. In this specific case you're actually correct to not perma someone for this sorta possession alone. A great example of this is energy verses powered crossbows, one is considered contraband the other is at best a weapon possession charge. The wiki is written rather specifically for a reason and a lot of players fail to realize the importance in detail. Now, don't forget that the way in which you use an item can land you in perma as well. Class C contraband used for a major crime is insta perma worthy. Take the context of the situation into account and make a judgment call from there. My advice is that if you know you're right, show them in space law where you're right. IAA, the Magistrate, and to a lesser extent the NT Rep are all resources for that as well. Unfortunately, it's fun and easy to blame one guy in security even when it's not right to do so. Just keep at it and become knowledgeable in Space Law and SOP so you can make them look dumb later.

This is in response to the active PRs to rework Diona And Slime People, instead of shoehorning in the need to breathe simply to accommodate for newcrit, why not rework nobreathe to be in a state that doesn't make one immune to oxygen damage but removes the need for breathable atmos, this would allow Diona and Slime People to retain their immunity to atmos while still being compatible with newcrit, now this may be harder than I think but it feels like a very reasonable thing to change instead of removing their innate ability to ignore atmospheric contents.

Hi all, My last round as sec was more than the standard amount of harassment-receiving, as I didn't perma a prisoner for having C4, even though it is not S-class on the paradise Space Law wiki (Composition C4 is, but has a different name and looks different in-game). I had asked advice on this, but not been answered (due to the usual everyone's-super-busy-itis, so that's fine). I then got reamed by the HOS, Warder, CMO, Captain and the AI made a lovely station-wide announcement about 'Shitcurity' blaming us for...well...everything. I guess that these players are more experienced with ss13 than I am, and probably knew better, but it's really damn difficult to learn the game when the wiki isn't accurate, and experienced players just spam abuse rather than offering actual help or advice. I know there's a problem with retaining experienced players in sec, partly due to this - and I can see why. I know this comes across as super-salty, but I am trying to be a fair and not-overharsh seccy, and stuff like this just makes it unrewarding and a pain. Thanks for any help/advice/chocolate/insults about my mother. Cheers everyone! Nerf

What is an Alternate Universe but just a bunch of What Ifs We're taking things a step back in time, What if this 80s sci-fi esque setting was actually taking place in the 80s. And because I like to go all out on these things, here's some ideas that I've have so far for this. I'd also love to hear what your characters would be doing in this sort of setting We have Jonah, a detective that has recently been transferred to a new town. Trying to adjust to living in his new shotty apartment and dealing with his work place, he'd probably have his mother calling him every now and then to see how's he settling in and maybe trying to hook him up with a lady/date. Because "Jonah you're a 35 year old man and you need a lady in your life so you can bring your mother grandchildren" But you know can't really be too open about being gay. Moving on we of course would have Nanotrasen in this town. They have a nice science facility around the outskirts of town, and of course like most places a lot of rumours have been spread around. "What is it that NT is doing out there? Freaky experiments? poor practices? Are they even scientists or are they just a bunch of cultists?" Some how they manged to stumble across a sort of dimensional like thing that is known as Bluespace, eventually figuring out they now have the ability to teleport things they decided to test it out by teleporting things away from them and to themselves. This may have lead to them grabbing a few other species from their own homeworld. Lastly Zeke, living in a technocracy based Skrellian society had been teleported away during his own wedding ceremony. During this time Skrell didn't really get with anyone due to being in love, more for a society thing. Did this benefit both side at all? Are they doing it for the purpose of having a child so they too can help with SCIENCE! Having families isn't important, but getting more skrell involved with pushing Science/ Skrellian Society as far as they can go! Zeke being the emotional and love driven character he is didn't want this marriage to happen, he didn't care for this Skrellian Lady however he didn't know what to cared for. But for a short moment he was happy to be mysteriously taken away from the altar, but quickly realized things might have gotten for the worst.

I used to play a lot of security and its the only department where sometimes if you dont follow SoP you will get shit for it. Sometimes Space Law is hard to understand as well. In general the crew hates security as a lot can get you arrested and locked you away for part of the round. For example if someone takes the Nuke from the Vault it is actually considered Grand Theft, even if the item does not appear on the Grand Theft Page. I was like 500 hours in at that point with most of my time in Security and I had to mentor help it, always use it if you are unsure. To go back to your example try and see it from a RP perspective as well. Why does crew member from X department have c4 on them? This is something Station changing and you are low in the hierarchy, honestly ask the highest authority what the sentence should be.

Space law is meant to be interpreted following its bases of course. If the wiki does not list any other composition c4 then it would probably be possession of a weapon, if you have any doubts regarding the wiki or space law and such, F1 mentorhelp, they will help you, if they don't answer, try submitting another ticket later. Also shitcurity is a meme and sec in general is very frustrating to play sometimes because of the amount of shit you have to deal with, either you can stand the stress and have fun or you can't, burn out and stop playing sec.

Completely agree here, there seems to be way too much RNG involved when handling combat scenarios. I've been in cases when I was constantly whaled on by FOUR cultists, three with burning tomes, and one with a sword, which had removed my heart and lungs. My entire health doll was red. I was still able to stand because I didn't roll for shock. This feels incredibly unrealistic in many aspects. Another case is I have been hammered by a holoparasite as an officer, fairly recently too, while on fire, for about a minute straight. Rolling shock despite being in constant negative health seems too be too inconsistent or unrealistic. This is one of my key dislikes to the "Newcrit". I'll just refer to my previous statement, the amount of scenarios people have been in, bombing runs, fires, slash-fests.. people should have died in these scenarios but because of the lack of damage cap and reliability on braindeath is very high, it just really don't work for most antagonists sadly. This is a huge issue here that one core job is made redundant due to recipe removals and restocking of medvendors. All chemistry is in the current form is a Strange Reagent shop or Cryoxadone Cabin, don't really need much else apart from maybe Mitochloride. Vendors need a drastic nerf in my honest opinion. As much time and effort that is put into "NewCrit", I don't think it fits in a mediumRP server. The previous health and crit system was perfect in my honest opinion, simple but effective and gets the job done.

I like the RNG, i think it lower the skill ceiling, and makes for more interesting stories.

Having played a bit more and thought about it. From the normal crew perspective (security and antags mostly) 1. The RNG needs to go or at least be reduced. People can stand up at random or just die instantly. This makes the game feel unfair and random. Which it is. 2. Have a set damage threshold at which point people die guaranteed. Once again. People won't die or go down, making it extremely annoying if you unload a full clip into somebody and they keep happily walking around disarming you. 3. The system is still quite incompatible with the existing systems. Take no breath from genetics. Unless it changed without me seeing it. You will be immune to most damage that the new crit system does. Take self resp and mind restoration from virology. These make it so that people stand up even more. Even though they are far over the -200 health mark. I know how genetics is dealth with and I don't want virology to undergo this fate as well. From medbays perspective: 1. Chemistry is quite useless due to the fact that the vendors are stocked to the brim with meds. Reducing the amount of stuff in there will help make chemistry relevant again. Although this would also mean that medbay is heavily reliant on chemistry. Even more so than before new crit and such. Other than that I don't know. The system mostly feels as extra annoying steps mostly for all sides. It doesn't work with the existing systems and changing them requires a lot of work and will most likely lead to a nerf or worse... removal of stuff without adding new features. My to go to thing would still be revert but well that won't happen. And fixing the points above here would just mean going back to old crit but with heart attacks being more common.

Unfortunate example on net neutrality since the public is actually on the wrong side of the issue.

So I took some doctor, chemist and CMO shifts during the test merge, my impressions to go: Medbay side - If an injured hit the medbay before falling death, the treatment is easy. A quick triage - is the heart ok and running, what kind of damage there are, what should I do first on - then chems, patches or defib first depending of the need. Concerning the mechanics from the medbay side, death seem to happen - as also provided in Evadable's previous tests - by the random chance, which becomes more probable the greater the total damage is. Respiration damage accumulates at tremendous rate if the cardiac arrest kicks in, but defibbing and giving epi+atropine also tremendously heals it. Brain damage should, according to the newcrit guide, count more into the possibility of dying. I had the impression that brain damage usually won't get high enough to be the main cause for the death. The time window of living after critically injured, that is some 1:30...2 minutes now, might be too short for it to actually happen. From the medbay side, the system works and is quite fun to play - if they arrive there living. As said, this is too short when the only option to cope with the dead are cloning and SR'ing. Antag side Since I very rarely roll antag and didn't do that during the merge, I've got nothing to say here on my own - but what was observed and mentioned above, the test merge broke up antag side things. The crit mechanism, due taking care of needs the specific chems or even a defib, it makes things very hard for cult, changelings, vamps, wizards and nukeops, if they are in the receiving end. Also their violent actions get complicated, since the time window of living after being hit hard is the rough minute and half. Specially terrors have a need to instakill their downed victims, as mentioned. These problems seem unintended. Alternatives With the tested revision, the antag side problems are more or less breaking their game. Concerning the medbay, newcrit is more or less fine IF they arrive alive, but the possibility for that actually happening is too short now. The newcrit stuff is aiming to make more immersion into getting hurt really bad, that way endorsing more RP, right? The current system isn't that realistic or complicated, true that. But the ingame realism is indeed a certain dilemma. Realism has to be traded for gameplay. At the cloning and reliability thread there was a neat discussion concerning that topic. SS13 is a kind of scifi fantasy world that mimics the reality (whatever it is) and known scifi and fantasy phenomenae. Well this we all do know, but considering the oldcrit it should be remembered, too, as well as considering the alternatives for changing it. So I'd say there are three ways to continue on; either staying with the old system, either having a compromise with the old and the new system, with the already-existing tricks from the both systems either overhaul the newcrit even more. If the intent is to implent the newcrit without compromises, I'm afraid that quite a lot of work is needed to deal with the observed issues. The timespan of crit should be extended from it was during the test, for the sake of medbay being able to cope with the critically injured patients. But in the meanwhile, antags definitely need the possibility to kill someone instantly. The way I'd see this to be coped, if no compromises are the way to go, is not only about further altering the crit and dying mechanisms, but altering the very mechanisms of damage aswell. So I would call it an overhaul. For I don't speak BYOND, I've got no idea of what would it take, it seems like a huge work anyway. Since I felt the urge to nerd (pro writing some school stuff...), I'll have here an idea of overhauling, some irl background for it, followed by an obviously more reasonable suggestion of an in-between solution (which is not my own, but from Norwest’s long post, from the other thread). Consider what said on realism with this input - not going to say these things should be implemented, or even are in the range of sane or possible for that at all. I'm writing them for the cause of providing some irl data and so possible ideas of mimicing that in spess. Overhauling newcrit: some nerdy irl backround on the results of violence The hazards of the spessmen could be somewhat-relevantly reflected to actual hazards of a battlefield. Rough cases at cyberiad are more often than not caused by excess violence, namely projectiles, sharp melee, fires, explosives and the beloved fastmos blunt; that is the common ground there. Talking about battlefield casualties, they are divided to few categories: instantly fatal, acute, urgent, priority and routine patients. Out of these categories, acute and urgent cases form the medevac category A, while priority and routine patients are B and C respectively. A-class patients are to be in a hospital (which is, battalion- or 2nd level in the field) within 2 hours; B and C cases in 4 and 24 hours. The times are irrelevant considering the game stuff, but you'll get a picture of which kind of injuries those might be from the evac time required. Now, in a rough example, casualties in a present-day battlefield. The following figures are most probably from IDF, EF and ISAF experiences. Just to note, the irl medical side isn't my actual military profession at all, but they've been hammering the basics of that in my head long enough. So, some 5-8 per cent of the casualties are instantly fatal or acutely will become fatal; meaning that even if they could be evacuated succesfully as A-class patients, they will die almost certainly. Culprits to these are catasthrophic or traumatic brain and heart injuries (ie. a shrapnel or a bullet in the brain or the heart), dismemberment (which we know as gibbing, caused by more or less direct HE hits), neck hits (shrapnels or roadside accidents) and, in a minority, catasthropic stomach or chest hits (that is, really violent projectile hits). These all mean that the victim had really bad luck, if they were not a victim to violence dedicated specially to them, ie. if they weren't a subject to a murder. The rest 90 percent of casualties would survive, or are survivable. Lately it has also been so, that survivable patients do survive. Reason is obviously the fact that the present western combat experience is from various low intensity guerilla conflicts, where evacuating and first aid could be done more or less freely. The ranges of engaging being anything over 150m - for what I've read, they are usually much beyond that - there is a relative safety to perform a field or "first first-aid" and then move to the actual safety, again more or less uninterrupted. Intense combat would dramatically lower the amount of survivors of initially survivable injuries, since either the field first-aid or the evacuation procedure is certainly interrupted. Anyway, a wide range of injuries, both in type and seriousness, form the group of casualties that survive. In conjunction with the evac A-B-C system, we use the so called cABC to determine the type and seriousness of the injuries. It is dubbed for critical hemorrhage, Airways, Breathing, Circulation. The cABC thing is done to anyone who gets hurt, scratch the obvious instant fatalites. In practice, it is just a rinse-repeat mechanical trick of checking certain things out of a wounded person. Moreover - again scratching the instant or acute cases - all of the injuries who fall in the categories of cABC can be first-aided effectively. I'll explain these briefly. Critical bloodloss happens with most projectile and-or shrapnel hits. These are the most frequent wounds in a battlefield. The c-wounds are mostly situated to arms or legs. Critical hemorrhage can kill in a timespan of some 20 seconds to couple of minutes, depending on which vein where is hit. Thankfully the c-wounds are also the most easy and quick ones to first-aid. Leg or arm case, apply tourniquet, else, apply pressure (emergency) bandage and-or hemostat bandage. That's it if the wound isn't a grossly huge one in chest or groin. Then it would be called a "catastrophic stomach/chest" hit and is an acute case. "Acute case" - notice the logic! Acute case actually means a case that we are unable to effectively first-aid, and those are in all circumstancies a small minority. Airways are the case if a minor internal bleeding from a projectile trauma happen to block your breathing, and are first-aided by setting the person lying on the ground in a certain posture. Breathing and Circulation are the problem if there is a gone-in in the chest or a general shock happening. First-aid to these are, in the case of a shock, CPR, securing the body temperature and possibly using stimulants (though my training doesn't cover the lattest). Shock in the context of violent injuries is, by the way, a symptom of suffered hemorrhage, most often. The second possible reason for that is a gone-in (not gone-through) in the chest, which creates a pressure of air and blood that can't escape to the lungs. It is first aided by chest punctuation, a violent act of making there a space for air to get off the lungs. Third one is a sub-conscious phenomenon, which happens if it happens due the entirety of symptoms. Sidenote to newcrit cardiac failures, no violent damage directly result to any cardiac failures (scratch the obvious direct hit to heart, though). Shock, failure and arrest are all outcomes of the actual cause of death. That is, in the context of violent injuries, most likely hemorrhage, specially if it was not first-aided in time. I don't know how actual burn or brute, in the meaning of blunt damage, leads to death.I guess burns lead to septicism in the long run, and in case of violent burns, to death of heart tissue by temperature, if not preceded by inhalation of toxic smoke gases. For pure blunt I guess massive internal hemorrhage. Speaking of "first-aid" in common, the first aid I mean hereby is something that any soldier with a basic rinse-repeat mechanical training can do. The only thing that matter there is speed. Moreover, atleast in my experience every deployed soldier has all the tools to do the tricks. For the obvious reasons, the kits are issued so that you carry the one for yourself, for if you had it the helper will use your kit on you. However everyone should be able to do the most things. Advanced care is done by more-or-less professionals, and getting there usually needs fair amount of evacuation. Reflecting this to spess, Cyberiad is no military station. The IC spessmen of course expect their shifts to be peaceful and productive in first hand, but they have some IC anticipation of possible hostiles too, enough for it to feel reasonable that crew is issued a basic first aid kit. TL;DR, first aid is the king in the vast majority of cases, if you apply it quickly enough. - - Overhauling, an idea Considering the previous, we of course are not into turning ss13 into a military medical trauma simulator. So we want to mimic reality for the sake of immersion, RP and gameplay. My quick throw into that direction would be that, in short a) make the type of violence matter more b) as a counter, make first aid great again Now the main newcrit reason of dying is the shock. It causes cardiac failures, which in turn generate respiration damage making the random chance of death big enough with accumulating total damage. This is indeed more complex than oldcrit threshold of death, no matter what type of damage it was. Still the damage type doesn't matter much. If I cure the underlying condition, which now is solely the shock, and then cure the damagepoints, the patient will be fine in no time. a) Make the type of violence matter more? Mimicing the irl things would be the thing here. Namely, make there a few ways to instantly kill a person. I don't know how to code-engineer these, though, but I have two ideas. 1. Threshold of damage in certain (short) amount of time. I'd imagine that it could be possible to create a threshold of damage in certain short period of time that results into instant death. Damagepoints refer to the severity, right? Mimicing irl, giving someone really grue violence would lead to their instadeath, and the threshold in a period of ticks is the actual meter of the violence. So if I fire like three shots of .357 to a chest in a row, it would be enough to drop the poor victim dead instantly. That would mimic "catashtropic chest/groin." This threshold would make it possible for antags to rapidly kill their victims when they have the possibility to concentrate on their victim. Talk about spiders or the classic maint murder. 2. Hemorrhage. Otherwise, hemorrhage would be the main reason for death, as it certainly is the reason for deaths caused by violence, in nearly all forms. To achieve that in-game, the threshold of dying by bloodloss should be higher in general. Currently, going under 20 percent of blood will instantly kill you - which practically happens only with rampant vampires. If I remember right, the fatal bloodloss would be losing 40% of it in rapid. So ingame goung below some 50-60% would instantly kill you. The shock with the cardiac failures, as present, would stay as a symtom of hemorrhage AND suffered but first-aided hemorrhage. but the lethality of shock should be greatly nerfed. Make it a thing that will kill you if left unattended for a time. Or - even more realism! - remove the threshold of dying due the blood level, and fix the RNG of entering shock to the amount of blood, instead of amount of damage points.Or - even more mimicing realism! - first, dramatically increase the respiration damage that bloodloss causes. Second, make the chance to acquire shock mainly dependant to the respiration damage. So if that will not be first-aided, losing of some 40-50% blood, which would happen really quick, would lead to a 100% chance of acquiring instant cardiac arrest and due that, death. As stated next toxin and burn points should perceive the link to shock, but their significance in acquiring should be nerfed. Actually, either of these might be my best idea hereby, but I can't decide which is the better one. Honk. Maybe the latter. Going through some damage types next. Excess blunt, namely, really excess blunt, like it is received from a bunch of angry aliens or your local blood-red sithlord, would lead to massive internal bleeding. Make it separate to the regular internal bleeding. Also there would be the treshold in a time. If the nukie is out of killing just you, he would accomplish it by quickly accumulating your damagepoints with a number of hits. If he only was to say mere regards from the syndicate, with say, two-three blows, you'd have "only" the internal bleeding. So there could be levels in the severity of internal bleeding, depending on the threshold-in-time or the amount of damage received in one hit, as it is presently. Also, blunt would cause the "regular" mild bleeding, but not the hemorrhage. Projectile or sharp hit severe enough (threshold in points) will result in both damagepoints and, with a big randomchance, to external bloodshed, aka critical hemorrhage. Arms and legs would be more suspectible for hemorrhage. Projectile and sharp hits cause death by either hemorrhage or the threshold in a time; threshold should be rather big. For balance reasons I'd think that fastmos damage would count in as sharp (ie, things hitting you causes bleeding and if hit hard enough, hemorrhage), not blunt, for the sake of first aid ideas down below. Burn damage happens now because of fires, electric shocks, space or lasers. Hereby the threshold in a time might not work that smoothly. I'm bit uncertain what there could be. For the sake of simplicity (code-wise I guess) the symptoms and fatality would need to be the same for all stuff that cause burns. Maybe give the one who receives excess burn damage (fixed threshold? in-time threshold?) a good chance of going into the shock, as of irl heavy electric shock would bear that hazard? I have a guess that cardiac failures are a thing with severe tissue burn damage in overall. Respiration damage could bear the chance of falling to the shock. The very nature of respiration damage depends, in this idea, how much would hemorrhage affect it, as addressed above. Toxins could do the same as they did the test merge (rising the possibility to shock, with the side symptoms which were present at old system, too). Damagepoints in general would give impress of the deadliness of weapon just as it was previous. What matters now more though is some kind of DPS, at least when it comes to weapons that deal brute damage. The total amount of brute points, in other hand, would just impress the severity of the damage, the grander the grand total is the more it takes to be cured. Toxin and respiration damage would count in to the probability of shock, possibly that would be the case with burns too. In balance, toxin and burn damage should be more difficult to acquire, or their weigh on acquiring shock nerfed. Well, lasers are underpowered to ballistics even now, and getting toxicated is rather seldomly happening (if you don't count in ghostsalt). TL;DR, if somebody gets hurt, they die either by the threshold-in-a-time - resembling excessive and dedicated violence and allowing antags to perform instakills when they can and have the need to - either by a shock caused by burns or hemorrhage, and these could be efficiently prevented or stabilized, as I propose as next, namely, b) MFAGA! Make first aid great again! The aforementioned might look like just a bunch of even more quick ways to get your spaceman killed. However, to counter the number and aggressiveness of the lethal hazards, first-aid would be buffed. As first-aid is a thing irl - it can be miraculously efficient if applied in time. Critical hemorrhage is countered with an emergency bandage. Irl we have two tools, tourniquet and this, but for the sake of simplicity we could do with only one (emergency bandage could actually be used as tourniquet as well, but that requires some tricks). Emergency bandage would be the new epipen, carried by all crewmembers. It would work as rolls of gauze works now (they should be then nerfed or turned into these), given that in intents, you aim the bleeding spot. It would also take a brief time, just like using traumakit to self does now. Using the bandage would lead to reduction of speed, and if it is applied to arm, similar effect than having bone broken there. That would mimic the tourniquet patients being irl litter, if it's leg, possibly walking but yet unable to use the hand if it's the arm. Balance-wise, applying an effective way to prevent a certain death to every crewmember would have this as its downside; the patients won't be back in fight just the same they were few seconds ago. Somebody has his tourniquet but is his respiratory damage have made him fall to shock? CPR should really deal with shock, scratch the cardiac arrest. Make it not very time-consuming action and make it cure some of the respiration damage, below some fixed point (as of epinephrine does take care of oxyloss below... whatever it was), so the victim still needs medical attention but is likely to be stable for sometime. Medical staff would have more powerful tools to deal with the shock, that is the chems, like it was in the test merge. Massive internal bleeding? The result of blunt damage would, mimicing the issues with that irl, be a bit harder to firstaid. For (fastmos) balance reasons, the high-tech chems could combat the respiratory damage of it. Paramedic's job. After the initial first-aid, which would prevent dying if applied, the injured will need medical attention more or less fast. I think that would answer to the call of endorse more RP. People aren't afraid of getting killed ingame, they are afraid of being out of the game or severely hindered in it. Making first aid great again, with downsides that more or less makes them unable to go back to combat (or tiding), would be a engaging way to do it. Also, if no co-operation is present, they will die nevertheless, and co-operation is the thing that makes RP to happen, isn't it? Last but not least, what about antags? They could use the same tools as crew, but obviously they need to have buffs in their special ways of medication. That is especially so for vampires, wizards and nukeops. High-tech syndicate concentrated blood pills for the ops? Rejuvenate+ deals with bleeding and shocks for vampires. Some nifty spell or item for the mage. - - - Sigh, did I write all that? Oh yeah, well it was entertaining to think around. Whether any of this is usable is an open question, for I personally don't speak BYOND to try anything on my own. But the compromise suggestion I'd think of is much more simple and so reasonable than that wall of text. I'll just cite @Norwest from the medbay poll thread. (quote) So the newcrit stuff would be as-is, maybe even made bit more quick to cause death, but defibs would revive again in the timespan of five minutes, with a cost. This makes it possible to have such a small timewindow of surviving alive after being critically injured, so not screwing the antags. Though, obviously antags need specific ways to deal with the shock. Also I find what Norwest wrote on persisting symptoms most interesting, something that might have the desired impact and for sure a more entertaining one to go.