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As it stands, Legal SOP has very little information on what to do in the case of an escape attempt, or an escape at all. In fact, if you search the word "Escape" in legal SOP, the word appears once. Space law adds slightly more clarification, in that "Any prisoners that escape Permanent Imprisonment or Exile may be detained, executed or killed on sight at the discretion of Security." The same applies to people who escape execution, which makes sense. Now to what doesn't. Space Law has a modifier/special situation clause that guides security in what to do, when a brigged crew member escapes, or attempts to escape, their cell confinement. At first glance, there is nothing wrong with this clause. It very clearly guides you in what to do in the event of an escape or escape attempt, even clarifies what is considered an attempt. Except, this doesn't mention perma. You can extrapolate that this applies to perma as well, which many people, including myself, have insinuated to be the case. However, my most recent round as security has proven, that it is not actually the case. To avoid turning this into a story thread, I'll be brief. If you want additional information, feel free to ask. Additionally, if I get something wrong about the events, feel free to clarify in the comments. I was a late joining HoS, playing as Cherry Waves. There were three vampires in perma. They had successfully managed to break two windows, exposing the electrified grilles, broken the flasher in the middle of perma, broken the N2O outlet, and in an attempt to apprehend them, they manage to almost kill the warden by disarming his weapon and firing upon him. If we take the "Escape from Brig" example from above, this is absolutely an escape attempt, but according to Legal SOP and Space Law for Exceptional and Capital crimes, this does not count as an escape, meaning that execution cannot be done. Further, as the Captain had cryo'd, and there were no present Magistrate, we had to fax CC on what to do with the attempted escapees. We were met with this fax, that the late joining Captain were kind enough to read aloud. To clarify on the fax response, Jade was killed in the struggle. She was, admittedly much, later revived. Despite all the 4 vampires being apprehended, security was spread extremely thin with the added five traitors that an admin introduced, thus the delay in Jade's revival. Now, every admin ruling is different. What one admin says isn't necessarily what another one would say, and I can imagine that to be the case in this situation. The problem is that this situation came to be at all. If someone as much as breaks the light bulb in a brig cell on a temporary sentence, their timer is to be reset or five minutes are to be added, due to it being classified as an escape attempt in Space Law. However, as stated above, someone can break almost all the functions of keeping perma prisoners in check, the flasher, the N2O outlet, as well as exposing electrified grilles, and there is no clarification in Legal SOP or Space Law that it's to be treated as an escape or escape attempt. The only option is to throw them in solitary, which has it's own issues. I am not saying that we execute every single prisoner that breaks the windows in perma. That's what solitary is for. But there has to be some clarification as to what an escape from perma is. Currently, and this isn't even in writing in Legal SOP and Space Law, an escape from perma requires the escapee to actually leave the confinement, either through a broken window, or an open door. It so no small secret that playing as security can sometimes be very stressful. The round that prompted me to write this suggestion has absolutely, with no contest, been the most stressful round I have ever encountered. Legal SOP is extremely lacking in this case, and the "Escape from Brig" adds too much speculation. Does it apply to perma, too? It doesn't say, so you have to assume that it doesn't. I would very much like to see a change in this, as it would cut down much unnecessary speculation. Sadly, it's not as simple as adding the word "perma" to the "Escape from Brig" modifier, as that would most likely trigger an increase in unnecessary executions. However, a separate modifier similar to it, with clarifications suitable for perma, would be a step in the right direction.

Feel like its very situational, here, which is the issue. A Warden walks in. Gets slipped and punched a few times by prisoner McGee. Warden recovers from stun and stuns McGee. That shouldn't count as a escape attempt. I think we can all can agree on that. But lets say McGee had cablecuffs/spear. They hid in a locker, slipping the warden as they enter and stabs/cuffs them. Then after the wardens capture/heavy-crit, McGee strips him of his gear. Backup officers arrive before McGee actually gets out of perma and put a end to it. Warden is saved and never dies from crit. That should be the very DEFINITION of an escape attempt. Just because McGee never got out of perma and the warden didn't die shouldn't mean no execution allowed. After all, if the officers didn't arrive quick enough it would be execution from wardens death/prisoner walking out with his ID. Now if the situation above happened, one could just say "throw them in solitary." Thats a nice idea, but now imagine that its highpop sec round with 3 perma prisoners, two active traitors and only 2-3 competent officers among the entire force. Now imagine any of the prisoners were vamps with their !!FUN!! glares. It quickly becomes infeasible.

Maybe it does need to be written somewhere but I think that attacking a member of security whether with the intent to disable or kill them when in perma counts as attempting to escape. Because if backup it doesn't arrive, it's not like the prisoners just intend to kill the person just for the hell of it and then stay there. I do see what you mean though. It feels like there's a lot of gray area with how security is supposed to handle things and worrying about OOC consequences makes it that much more difficult.

dumb comic about a very unlucky vox who I've seen get cluwned, gibbed, and delimbed in the engine mere *minutes* after I remind them to stay safe Poor Esfor

I kind of agree with Rythen on this, I think preferences polling would be really bad for variety for all the same reasons. On the other hand, I do find the current variety a little lackluster as it is, with vamp, cling, tator and all the combinations of those three taking up a vast majority of rounds. Alternative idea: Poll every round, but add a toggle in preferences that lets you opt-out of being polled to avoid the whole "annoying" aspect of it if it's not something players are interested in. Also, the polls would ideally include every antag in rotation, so wiz yes, tators yes, borers yes, anything and everything.

IMO, we should make credible escape attempts count as an escape for execution, too. If you want to smash up your cell and try to take out the warden when he enters perma you should really expect to be executed if sec feels like it.