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@ItsMarmite's Gloppie

IMO, cloning as a common form of revival is fine. It could use a bit of rebalancing to make setting it up and using it require a bit more thought than just asking Chemistry for some Cryoxadone in an IV, sticking it into an LRP monkey murderbag, then pressing two buttons on the machine, though. There have been ideas floating around to make cloning slightly more involved - using stuff like new coroner-only tools which would extract something along the lines of the patient's DNA (husking or otherwise rendering the old body unrevivable) that the cloning machine would then require to begin the cloning process - but if I recall correctly some technical difficulties stopped the attempt. Alternatively, cloning could maybe be given some extra side-effects like permanent mutations irremovable with Mutadone that would require Genetics' involvement (actually giving them a reasonable excuse to be part of Medbay), or maybe an occasional missing limb that didn't properly grow in the cloning pod. One thing I'd like to see though, is for those side-effects to never be fully nullifiable as is the case with current cloning upgrades, which completely remove the chance to acquire negative mutations (which is already fairly low as-is) and even let you gain positive ones at no risk! I'd also absolutely be on board with an official "uncloneable" disability, as it'd give people who dislike cloning or may have RP reasons to make their character unresponsive to it an easy mechanical solution (ideally with appropriate in-game feedback), with the very clear label that it's a disability they're willingly taking. On the other hand, SR could absolutely use a bit of a buff; compared to cloning, it's currently the worse form of revival in almost every aspect, which is a bit ridiculous - without proper preparation and experience it takes a lot longer, is a lot more dangerous thanks to the possibility of gibbing someone with it, requires you to fix all original conditions like injuries and internal bleeding/broken bones that might need surgery, and also doesn't leave a body for the coroner to inspect. I feel like the side-effects should be toned down a fair bit to actually make SR a viable alternative to cloning before people even consider learning and doing SR revivals more regularly. As for whether we even need revival to be common - I'm fairly certain the answer is 'yes'. People have raised points about some antags we have like blob, which almost requires a steady supply of crew to fight it otherwise it tends to snowball out of control, but even besides that - there are people who can't devote much time in their day to the funny spessmen game of which rounds each take 2 hours on average, and it doesn't make for a very fun playing experience to be completely removed from the round because nobody found your body in 5 or even an extended 10-15 minutes after some antag happened to shank you and hide your body early on.

I see a lot of people say to remove cloning, yet I’ve never seen a good argument for its removal. The rounds are two hours long, and medbay is totally bald about 75% of the time. The threat of permanent round removal at round start due to bad luck or medical incompetence would discourage experimentation, encourage massive power gaming for protection, and would just be bad for overall gameplay. There are also very often total chaos rounds that are a lot of fun because people get rotated back in to the fray from cloning. I have never had cloning negatively impact my experience, and I think it’s a pseudo issue that people make a fuss about for no reason. I also question if people who advocate for its removal ever play high risk roles where round removal is likely, or if they are medical/assistant mains never at high risk.

His Grace ascended: A video of the run (not my channel; credit to Kras):

DISCORD DISCUSSION: https://discord.com/channels/145533722026967040/145700319819464704/1063239326013599844 For the Original Post: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/discussions/20164 I AM POSTING THIS HERE AS NOT EVERYONE CHECKS GIT/CODING CHAT, AND WOULD LIKE MORE INPUT FROM PLAYERS. This will only have the base-level ideas and not be fully fleshed out mechanically. See the Git Discussion for more up-to-date discussions and mechanical specifics. Currently, Lavaland is in this odd state of power-escalation, speedrunning for loot/tendrils and VERY solo-minded mechanics surrounded by a passive-mining system. There is minimal reason to work together with your fellow Miners/Spelunkers while adventuring, and even DOWNSIDES to working together to fight Megafauna/Tendrils/etc. The idea behind this document is to change Lavaland from a "collect the shiny toys by myself" to a system that encourages players to work together instead of nearly strangling eachother when one player "rushes all the good stuff". Issues with the Current System There is no way to share kills of Megafauna/Fauna between KC and KPA users. There is no "reset" mechanic that players can activate when all of a certain Megafauna are dead (think BotW's Blood Moons). There is no "progressive" tree for KPA users other than going to Science for upgrades. Likewise, there is no way for ALL KC users to progress at the same rate as not all trophies can be acquired, leading to people "speedrunning". There is no defensive progression to go through other than going from [Miner Suit > Drake Armor > HECK Suit]. KC Trophies are all RNG-based to drop, rather than something you can farm via crafting from killing (mega)faunas. There are minimal QoL items on Lavaland's loot table that help on Lavaland, most are "antag/overpowered" items (meat hook, eye of god, cursed heart, inferno, warp cubes, dark blessing, and cult items) or are VERY old designs that are nothing more than shiny trinkets due to how outclassed they are by basic tools (Paradox Bags, diamond pickaxe, KA modkits, lava boat, possessed sword, lifesteal crystal, and the immortality crystal). Issues with Progression I personally break this into four issues: - KPA Progression - KC Progression - Defensive Progression - QoL Progression KPA Progression This one is rather simple. I do like the idea of this staying locked behind Science/RND. I would personally want the modkits to be removed from the Mining Vendors and placed solely within RND. This causes there to be a symbiotic relationship between miners playing safe early to ensure Science is given mats and items to ensure they can get their KPAs upgraded. I would also like to see a more "attachment" based upgrade system, kind of like the KC so that it steps away from the "percentage based" system that is currently in the game as well as moving it from a "spam click" gameplay loop to a semi-reloadable system (think the Adamant Rail gun from Hades, with infinite ammo but a "reload") Examples could be: - Bayonet Upgrades (for better close-range melee) - Fire Rate - Magazine Size - Movement Abilities (think the KC's dash trophy) - AoE Mods - "Beam" Mods (to allow you to hit 3 layers of rock in front of you) - Etc Etc Etc KC Progression For the KC, I would like to move from an RNG-based full-drop system to a "crafting" system. You are choosing to go melee, a semi-tribal method using technology to assist you. Some of the trophies are VERY neat, and are probably some of the most enjoyable gameplay moments ive had in SS13's minimal PvE environment. But, the fact you need to speedrun to the Blood Drunk Miner to have a chance to get their trophy is rather rough. Below I will list a few ideas to change how the KC goes through its upgrade path: - KC Trophies are made through the crafting menu from "salvaged" parts of creatures and plants around Lavaland. You can "skin" any killed faunas with the KC for "rare" materials used only in Trophy creation(see below for how skinning becomes a QoL progression). You would then combine these items with other items you collect to make the different Trophies. (i.e. > [Watcher Sinew x4 + Plant Fibres x2 + Watcher Wings (R) x2 == Watcher Trophy]) This would allow KC and KPA users to work together and trade items theyve "farmed" to encourage teamwork (and hell, you could ask people to pay for 'em) - KC Trophies should not be locked behind KC-only combat. We should be encouraging players to work together as teams to take down Megas (think melee vs ranged DPS in an MMO). - KCs should be able to melee-parry, to reduce full dependence on the BDM Eye trophy. Defensive Progresion One of the sorriest and most overlooked parts of Lavaland I feel is crafting. You have a whole list of Tribal items that really only have a use to Ashwalkers. I would like to expand this system as the main "goal" of Lavaland. Your survival knife goes from an underused melee attachment to your KPA and becomes a "skinning tool" to collect items and drops from your kills on Lavaland to be used to craft progressively helpful armor. For example, the progression system could look like this: [Explorer Suit > Reinforced Explorer Suit (via bones/goliath plates > Adventurer's Suit (add Goliath Cloak for Storm Protection with the hood up) > Adventurer's Armor (add Drake Scales for higher defense) > etc etc.] This entire system would mirror the KC Trophy crafting system and have recipes you'd need to farm to get. This might seem like a scary thing to balance, but if it incorporates Lavaland items, we can introduce a "brittle" system that "nerfs" Lavaland items on Station to be on-par with Station-found items. QoL Progression Things such as healing, ore gathering, scanner upgrades, explorer mesh storage slots, etc can all be feasibly upgradable using Lavaland as a focus instead of locking it behind tendril loot only. Other QoL ideas are some sort of on-Base Ore Deposit that sends to the ORM along with a stationary Mining Drill that you can place on Lavaland for passive material gain. [NOTE: I NEED TO THINK MORE ON THIS] Issues with Tendril Loot To start, I would like to COMPLETELY remove the "breaking a tendril opens a chasm" mechanic. Instead, you can "salvage/mine" materials needed for crafting from the tendril, causing it to become dormant for a certain amount of time. You can either wait it out, or reinvigorate it with some kind of "restart item" (probably something you can craft with LL plants and a legion core). This prevents full round removal AND gives a reason to have "nests" all over LL that dont TRULY go away. [NOTE: I WILL EXPAND ON THIS, BUT THINKING AT WORK IS DISRUPTIVE] Ash Walkers With a full revamp of defensive/offensive/QoL items being more Lavaland-derived, this would allow for the Ashwalkers to be a good "testing ground" for dead players/observers to spawn in and try to "climb the tech tree" of progression. Instead of the "Base Armor" being an explorer suit, they can craft the usual "Bone Armor" as their base option. Spears could be crafted into a tribal version of a KC, using the power of the Necropolis to empower their hits/give special effects. This would also encourage Miners to trade/fight the Ash Walkers for a chance to use a different toy. [THIS ALSO NEEDS SOME MORE FLESHING OUT, AHHHHHHHHH IDEAS]