Auce

How is this a buff to botany? They get access to a chem dispenser every single round, it just creates annoying work for science and makes botanists upset when they don't have their mutagen immediately. Also anyone saying botany is possible without a chem dispenser, I thoroughly challenge you to have the patience to do it without one. Try mutating ambrosia gaia with left4zed, yeesh.

It is kind of silly that step 1 of doing botany every single round is to go bug R&D for a chem dispenser, can we save everyone a bunch of busy work and just have one spawn there?

Agreed, I think fines would be a good addition to the game, as long as the credit economy has more of an impact on the game.

Honestly I feel like everyone in this thread has vastly different anecdotal experiences on this server and while that's not surprising to me, I feel like just because I have one experience that doesn't make yours invalid, and likewise in return. "I don't exactly understand what your suggestion is really, try to be more specific and put at least some time into thinking and coming up with an actualy suggestion on how to fix problems that you think exist, not some abstarct "i would like to see a system"." In my original post I suggested that security be given goals/objectives like the science crewmen are on the end game screen, where they are given recognition for doing their jobs properly. One way of doing this is tracking how many minutes of temp-brig time they issued to crew (and perhaps to antags), and be given points for releasing non-antags and capturing/removing the threat of an actual antagonist. Perhaps security could have some sort of high tech option that could rehabilitate/defang an otherwise must-execute antagonist and allow them to continue the round instead of just being killed. This already sort of exists as borging, but I don't think this is an ideal solution for many players.

Mitchs98, my proposal is an "ought" one, not an "is" one. I'm saying I think the existing rules should change. " I have to say the majority of times that harsh sentences are used are against shitters, self antagging players, people that decided to commit a lot of crime, or antags" I don't think security should be dealing with self antagging players, that's against server rules and should be ahelped right? I'm talking about people who are doing very minor crimes/SoP slipups and are brought in to talk, or people who are innocent/framed and brought in. "Security does RP with people with a warrant a lot more than people let on when possible or applicable, especially non-antags. The fact of the matter is the majority of people with warrants, especially non-antags, are just people griefing or otherwise doing really tidey or LRP actions that bring the round down." In my ~400 hours of experience now on the server I'd say that the majority of experience roleplaying with a sec officers consists of batong, cuff, processing and then stripping naked (or you doing the same to them if you are robust/feel like gaming). "Security shouldn't be trying to not arrest people who deserve it, that's entirely counter-intuitive to what Space Law is for; keeping people who otherwise negatively impact the round in a cell. Now, I will say that security should issue warnings more often for certain crimes...but err on the side of not arrest/be afraid to arrest people in fear of some sort of punishment for doing their job? Absolutely not. " I think from a gameplay perspective, security should not want to arrest innocent people, and not want to cost the station productivity. I am fine with there being a warrant out on someone for a legitimate reason with evidence, and for force to be used if the perp resists, but there's a reason in real life police officers don't just run up and attack people with tasers/batons without giving them verbal warnings. If the suspect flees or resists obviously they lose this measure of protection. "Statistically speaking, and this is from my own personal experience in security and not a dataset, at least ninety percent of arrests on non-antags are people griefing and toeing the line on self antagging; not true petty criminals committing crime in an RP fashion or trying to do something interesting for the round. " The griefers and self-antaggers should be dealt with via ahelp, but I think part of the reason that there aren't many petty criminals is because the culture of this server. The vast majority of criminal stuff is against server rules for non-antags, barring ahelp permission. In addition, I've on more than one occasion seen admins literally play security for them, adminfreezing and bwoinking someone doing something IC illegal but not against server rules. This sort of thing really takes the steam out of the round for both the security people who have nothing to do besides hunt for redtext, and for players with gimmicks or IC grudges/petty feuds with other characters who are unable to play them out for fear of bwoink. "you say like executing for no reason is a common occurrence..." Procdrone, I don't understand how you got this notion from my post. I don't believe that people being executed arbitrarily is a common occurance, just that security has every incentive and no disincentive to end an antag's round with perma and/or execution.

One common theme I have noticed in many of my rounds is that many security players view the round as "Security vs (All the potential criminals and antags)" instead of "Crew (including security) trying to get their jobs done, hindered by antags". This leads to situations where if you are arrested or brought in to the brig, security will often err on the side of caution and give you a harsher sentence, or even perma/execute you even if evidence is circumstantial. I think this is bad for both innocent/mild criminals and for antags because the officers should really not want to brig/execute people unless they have to. Innocents and mild criminals can have their round ended wrongly, and IMO security officers shouldn't actively want to ruin anyone's round, even if they are an antag. I personally try to go out of my way not to ruin anyone's round, even if I am forced to assassinate them I will try to involve them in the round otherwise if I can. I'd like to see some sort of system where the security team is held accountable to the station's productivity points, and officers more encouraged not to err on the side of round-ending other players. In addition I'd really like to see security's SoP modified such that they aren't expected/allowed to just baton+cuff anyone even suspected of crime. People should be allowed to come to the brig willingly, even if only to have a chance at getting a reduced sentence for cooperating. I almost never see security roleplay with someone who has a warrant on them, regardless of alert level. In my experience it is disabler/baton + cuff and drag wordlessly to processing. I don't think this is a fun interaction for anyone, as it encourages people who are antag to murderbone any officer who so much as looks at them, always have anti-stun gear/chems, always have freedom implant/matter eater etc to break free of cuffs. Very repetitive and uninteresting gameplay patterns.

Honestly I think the suggestion to remove common comms from headsets but keep them for station bounced radios and intercoms is a great idea. Definitely adds to the immersion, and a lot of the low RP stuff happens when people start saying silly things over the common chat. Departmental radios are way more interesting, and this would really encourage the heads of a department to be the go-betweens for the various departments, as it should be. I also love the idea of the emergency button instead of "; help maint!". This might have balance implciations for some gamemodes and various antags might need a bit of a nerf to keep them in check.

Awesome to read. Thanks for compiling all this!