davidchan

-1 to magazines, given that we've done it before and it failed. The increased capacity sounds okay. Id personally just use capacitors but if someone wanted to make heat sinks sprites I guess it'd be fine, though what would we do with AEGs and other self chargers? If we do go the capacitor route, make sure that a new capacitor drains the weapon so it can't be ezploited by swapping capacitors out. Making security have one more reason to play nice with science rather than try to shut them down.

Kind of my stance on it too. Janitor gets some pretty OP gear, from that backpack sprayer to a cart that autocleans anything he drives over if RnD bothers to do their job. It's also not like dirt negatively effect players in any mechanical way. It looks dirty, yeah, but you don't move slower or trip over it, it doesn't have any effect on your health or infect you with a disease. Reducing dirt accumulation if it effects server performance is understandable, but removing it because a job that doesn't usually get done to begin with. Janitors usually clean up all public areas of the station within 30 minutes of their shift, then either go SSD/Crydorms or bugger off to the bar waiting for a cleaning request they won't ever get. I started playing SS13 as a janitor, it was fun and mind numbing at times, most of your job is locked behind doors and since most janitors clean with water nobody wants to let them in to clean up the oil or dirt, blood only occasionally gets cleaned up if someone is worried about a blood disease on the station. And asking for improved access is like pulling teeth as everyone is paranoid the janitor is gonna pull revolver out of his trash bag and cap them the second he gets inside their department/office.

Keep mah dirt. Let you know if the Janitor was even trying to do their job. Plus with the dozen and one ways to clean it seems pointless to remove unless it's causing a massive amount of stress on the server.

Does this mean RD will gain access to lockboxes for protolathe weapons for testing then?

Sigh... Let's take it point for point, shall we? 1) Genetics Research is not Science Research: Science Research can quite literally be completed within 10-15 minutes, assuming a competent Scientist and minimal effort from the part of Mining. In fact, it doesn't even need Mining. The Mining Dock starts off with two silver ore chunks, which the QM can easily smelt and give to RnD. So yeah, Science doesn't even need Mining to maximize Research. Genetics Research, on the other hand, is double RNG: All powers and disabilities are randomized at the start of the round; Actually getting the damned things requires RNG not to be a bitch to you. It's more than possible for you to spend 5 minutes juggling a block from 1 to 9 while everything else mutates uselessly around you Not to mention that the only viable way of handling research is either getting a player test subject, which slows down research considerably, since you have to make sure that they don't die, or testing it on yourself. Even with two competent Geneticists, depending on RNG, Genetics research will be finished 45-60 minutes in. A single Geneticist will most likely spend most of the round hitting the Irradiate button to get everything finished, seeing as this also includes testing, cataloging and, for disabilities, removal. 2) Relative Power: 15 minutes in, Robotics is fully capable of making incredibly well-armed military Exosuits at the drop of a hat. Literally the only thing stopping them, mechanically, is resources, and if Science upgrades the Ore Machine, that ceases to be an issue as long as you have at least one active miner. Said Exosuits can quite easily murder a huge chunk of the crew and, if Security isn't on the ball, murder them as well. Said Exosuits can also only be properly countered with Ion Weaponry, and even then you can mount a Taser and ensure whoever is holding the Rifle/Carbine drops it. Genetics, on the other hand, has a multitude of utility powers that can legitimately be used for the sake of the crew. Telekinesis and Hulk are the only ones that can actually be abused properly to cause legitimate harm (Cryokinesis is a joke in that regard), but here's the main point: It is ridiculously easier to take down a Geneticist than an Exosuit. If you're the CMO, or the RD, you either have access to a Syringe Gun, or can make one. You have access to Chem Dispensers, and beakers, and syringes. Literally all you need to do is make a beaker of Mutadone, load up on a single syringe, find the Geneticist (who has less access than you, so you can very easily track them down) and shoot them. Once. Boom. Powers gone. Suddenly the Geneticist is just a random schmuck. 3) Lethal Force: As stated, the only real way of handling a rogue Exosuit is via Ion Weaponry. Tracking Beacons are hilariously useless in that regard. However, this poses an issue, in that there is one Ion Rifle at roundstart, locked in the Armory, and if the Head of Security or Warden aren't on the ball, GG. Even if they are, the Exosuit can still fight back with the proper weaponry or, in the case of Gygax or Phazon, attempt to evade the shots. Hell, the Phazon can just go into space, and suddenly you can't touch it properly. By contrast, if you're a Hulk with Telekinesis and you're abusing these powers, you are literally a single E-Gun away from lying on the ground in Critical Condition. Lethal Force being applied to rampaging Hulks is outlined in both Space Law and the Guide to Security. Harmbatoning a Hulk is even a viable strategy for the robust Officer, seeing as Hulk punches no longer instastun people. TL;DR: Forcing Geneticists to never leave the Genetics lab, ever, without taking a shot of Mutadone, is needlessly draconic. Nice strawman, but your argument is beside the point to downright fallacies. 1) Genetics can, and has been completed in under 20 minutes before too. People who are competent at genetics can breeze through it just as quickly as RnD can be done. It's RNG, but if you know what you're doing it's easy push the numbers which ever way you need to. Mining is a requirement to get combat mechs. Combat Gene powers will always be in the round, maybe not all of them but various powers exist solely for combat, like Hulk and Cryokinesis. 2) There has never been, and probably never will be, a Roboticist with a fully built Gygax in 20 minutes. Even with competent miners and Research, best case scenario they need to wait at least 30 minutes to get the necessary silver just to completely the body of the mech. Genetics has no such roadblocks that prevent them from finishing their job without outside help. 3) Genetcists fully loaded up on genetic powers are significantly more dangerous than a fully loaded Gygax or Durand, yet there no SoP restricting them from taking their murder powers outside of their lab? Seriously? A Mech can be shut down with a swipe of an ID and push of a button, power cells can be removed, DNA locked and they are generally slow enough that anyone robust and not charging right at it can take it out, I've smashed apart Ripleys using a Sonic Jackhammer. Genetics, on the flip side, can only be stopped with a syringe gun. Meaning you get limited shots with a weapon that can be blocked with a spacesuit or standard juking, something a mech can't do. Genetics can make clean SE's, it would take them 5 seconds to clear their powers and reset them. Why should they be allowed to freely roam the halls with the power to smash walls, blast people with cold, never leave a finger print or breathe in space without any repercussions? You've already made it clear in your SoP that it isn't intent that matters in terms of what can and can't be done, but capability. And a geneticist is far more capable of causing damage to the station with none of the limiting factors mechs have. But hey, why not, let's freely let this guy who can move things with his minds, see through walls and blast people with icicles at will wander around the station without any accountability.

Escaping from the Labor camp is actually quite difficult if anyone is keeping anyone eye on it. Nobody gets sent of station because that requires more work and accountability than most Wardens and HoS's are willing to put up with. Most people who get Perma'd either escape, suicide, or die from carp. And Security never even realizes this until 20-30 minutes later. If Labor camp was redone and made to be functional with a larger area for prisoners to mine, it'd be used quite a bit more. Especially if Perma wasn't 30 steps away. First and foremost, I would prefer to see brig/prison being used as a cheap labor center. Collecting resources, growing extra food, or even implementing some kind of treadmill/man powered turbine for prisoners to use to generate a small bit of power for use in the station power grid. Security could risk letting prisoners work on somewhat more complex tasks, with the knowledge that certain tasks give prisoners access to materials they could use to escape if not watched closely.

I would honestly argue for removing Perma all together and merging it with Labor Camp so brigged prisoners can mine, even if it means we have to make a secondary asteroid a little farther away from the other outposts if need be. Mining wouldn't be required of prisoners, but it'd be an option and chance to make them productive.

Hulk and other combat powers going away would be no major loss. Specially when tully is admantly defending genetics right to maintain powers outside their lab.

You do realize that argument works against robotics more than it does medical? In the old days Robotics had to take corpses to Medical for debraining, not the other way around. If the logic that Medbay shouldn't get MMIs or spare prosthetics is valid, then Robotics shouldn't get a surgical table and surgery tools. As for the brain jars... neutral. I'd rather see a more active approach to medical, not 'toss in machine, turn it on and go for 5 minute coffee.' I'd much more support use of surgical tools to repair brains and/or liberal use of mannitol.

Literally that entire Guideline reads "Genetics are not allowed to abuse their powers on anything but testing". No, it only says it's only punishable if they use their powers to commit a crime with them, not walking around outside of genetics. They are still ripe for abuse, and given how Robotics is banned from even making combat mechs, let alone strolling the station with them regardless of use in Green makes Genetics freely able to load up on obvious powers and stroll around a-okay just ridiculous. How is having an empty Gygax a punishable offense yet someone displaying Telekenisis and Hulk powers in the bar just fine? Are these SoP guildelines intended to be written from the point of view of an idiot or do they just intentionally have gaps and contradicti themselves?

Genetics just needs a repass with the powers either hidden better (the UI and SE randomly occupying the same 50~ blocks) or the powers being overhauled to balance them out more. Hulk is generally the one people talk about, and I agree that it's a bit ridiculous and should probably be split into two separate powers, wall smashing strength and stun immunity, or have powers gain synergy bonuses so taking on certain defects could make other powers function better. Genetics is generally too straight forward to my taste and is a job that can be completed in 20 minutes or less if you know what you're doing with nothing to do for the rest of the shift but abuse those powers. As far as rules go, the fact that Science SOP doesn't restrict the Geneticists themselves from using powers outside of their lab is a complete failure. Without permission, it SHOULD be a punishable crime for genetics to have/use their powers outside the confines of Genetics, and yet they are free load up on everything and wander the halls without consequence. Genetics and Toxins should be treated the same way, you're allowed to test and develop your work in the designated lab areas, but you better have a damn good reason to remove your work from the lab for real world use if you don't want it confiscated and you yourself thrown in the brig.

Just make it so that the toilet has holy water in it only as long as the bible is in the cistern.

This would be overpowered as hell. Giving security access to additional grenades is fine, but being able to mass produce hellmixes from one grenade? Yeesh. At best, I could see Security having a grenade replicator to make flash or smoke grenades. Making it machine like the Autolathe that you put metal and glass into. By default, the grenades it puts out should be basic/sub-par versions of the ones they get by default, I'm not sure exactly how the flashbang reaction works with fewer materials but making weaker ones would be acceptable. Science could upgrade the machine, unlocking additional grenades, such as CS/Tear Gas grenades or maybe even supression grenades that spread a sleep toxin like Ether? The machine could be loaded with chemicals to create preset grenade schematics and print them out. Would give Security a reason to interact with Cargo, Science and Chemistry a bit more. But, I'd be pretty neutral on this machine since it'd just be giving Security more cheese and power, and I predict more than a few Security players outright demanding other departments stock and upgrade the machine before they do anything else, or just making false arrests and searches to confiscate the materials they'd need to upgrade it themselves.

I'd only be for this if it was equally possible to force chemicals into an IPC, such as force feeding.

To be entirely honest this whole ordeal makes me wish I could just cannibalize the space pod and just get a Gygax with maneuvering thrusters on it. If someone in a jetpack can outrun a spacepod, that begs the question of why even have a sec pod in the first place.

I'm saying that if we increase the amount of karma you can give out, the the cost of karma unlockables must increase if we're wanting the investment to be the same and the amount of jobs/species at a (relatively) particular level. That said, this will have a negative impact (just like real life inflation) on the karma "savers"; since all the karma cost have doubled, they've now lost half the "value" of their karma, effectively (we could hypothetically double the amount of karma each player currently has, to compensate though, hypothetically). Why not just give everyone one free Karma to spend, and if you run into multiple people in a round you feel worthy, you can grant them a point of Karma, but it comes from your own pool. You can't award more than one point to a person per round, but if three or four people do exceptional you could reward them all at a cost to yourself. This wouldn't be any change on the current 'karma economy' since only 1 point per player would be generated at most. I.E. Urist McGreyshirt is saved by medical early in the round, he grants his Karma to the doctor for going above an beyond to save and help him out. Later in the round, Planty McBotanist starts handing out max potency plants that are beneficial to the crew, McGreyshirt decides that such a good player shouldn't go unrewarded and voluntarily spends Karma he earned in previous rounds on McBotanist. McBotanist and McDoctor both gained a point, while McGreyshirt has a net loss of 1 Karma, going into the round with 13 karma and ending with 12.

Does the Fix-o-vien not fix debrained brains anymore? If it doesn't they probably should. As for medical getting MMIs, really they should start with a small cache of MMIs AND robotic limbs.

Reading through this thread makes it seem like EngiVend needs an overhaul to give it items relevant to Engineering department AND available to those who need them

Last I checked Medi-gun just restores damage, not fixes organs, bones, infections, brain damage or any other injury. Oddy needs more equipment, that's pretty obvious, this or some kind of mounted hypo would be nice.

As a SciNerd who loves to make additions to the station, I would love for this to be added, cryotubes are amazing yet nearly impossible to add without atmos/engi cooperation, which is surprisingly hard to get for a job that literally does nothing all shift. But I've seen how they can be abused on /tg/ so I'd understand why we'd be hesitant to add them, and as Fox said our code isn't quite in the right place to implement them either way.

While I do admit that a player controlled Araneus sounds like fun, there is a dozen plus things that can go wrong or ruin the concept. 1)Damage. Araneus can't be lethal, at least without serious effort on his part. He's not an antag and shouldn't kill people like one, and validhunting with Araneus should be difficult at best, and usually impossible. I suggest stamina poison because it is possible to get away from, so Araneus wouldn't be a beepksy with an intsant stun ability, someone being bit would have a chance to run, stimulants/ephedrine and other items would make it even easier to escape. 2) Armor/Gear. Araneus would need a vest or unique equipment to help identify and discriminate him from hostile giant spider mobs. The ability to wear body armor (like Ian) would also be nifty way to increase Aran's robustness at the cost of his speed. The idea of Araneus in a riotsuit makes me giggle too. 3)SecHUD. Something would be needed to help the spider officer discriminate criminals from innocence, maybe a natural ability, implant or specialized equipment for him. I feel it would be important for him to be unable to modify arrest records. Araneus probably isn't intelligent enough to know all of space law and dole out judgements, but rather like a GSD he'd respond to commands. 4) ID and Access. Araneus would need to be able to traverse the station. A player controlled mob that can't leave his spawn zone would be a terrible thing, so if HoS wasn't in the round the player would be stuck unless they disposed themselves. An implant or special item for him would probably do the trick. I personally don't feel he'd need any access higher than what a Security Officer gets standard (Plus the HoS's office of course.) Some how being able to upgrade this mid-round would be ideal as the situation calls for it, but if t he HoS isn't active Araneus shouldn't be do much but helping the other officers, and if the HoS is active Araneus should be following him, so Security Officer access would suffice with HoS office and maybe Bridge access. As an alternative Araneus could be granted vent crawling. While I imagine it would be fun for Araneus to be able to bypass bolted doors or other obstacles and pop out from a vent into a Cultist hideout or similar criminal den to dispatch them while security bursts through the door, I can also understand how this ability would be abused by the player and probably would be best left out unless there was some guidelines on it's use and Araneus gameplay in general. 5) Webbing and cuffs. Araneus being able to spin webs would be just fine, though given his specialized training and conditions I'd like to see him be able to do more than just make a slowdown tile. The ability to web people to the floor would probably be my first choice, instead of making pseudo-web cuffs. Araneus wouldn't be able to properly arrest someone but rather detain and restrict them from running away while security plays catch up. In practice, webbing someone to the floor would make an object similar to a Xeno nest, escaping from it would be much shorter (requiring only 30-45 seconds) and removing someone from the webbing, or them escaping, would destroy it to prevent re-use. Alternatively they could cocoon and bind someone up for transport, while I concede that a giant spider would be able to use a glob of webbing from it's spinner to drag someone, I'd rather Araneus not be able to reliably drag criminals. 6) Healing As a simple mob, Araneus wouldn't be able to be healed by everything, notably sleepers and cryotubes. I feel his primary source of healing should be food, specifically as a carnivore he could eat meat to heal, preferably raw. Vermin like rats and lizards would also be applicable, as well other Command pets if someone was so inclined. Would give the HoS a good reason to regularly harass the chef for raw meat steaks or get synthmeat from Chemistry. As an alternate ability, one which I would like to see spread to all giant spiders, would be the ability to create a regenerative cocoon. By standing still on a tile for 30 seconds, the spider would be able to cover itself with webs and wait for its health to restore, say 3% every couple of a ticks or what ever rate would require about 5 minutes to restore from 1% to 100. The flip side of this would be the cocoon being highly flammable, meaning matches, lighters, welders, flamethrowers and other sources of fire could ignite and kill the spider inside. Resisting while in the cocoon would allow an early exit, but this would take time, the various fire sources might take some time to fully light the cocoon on fire, say strike matches and cheap lighters needing 10 seconds, a zippo needing 5, and a welder needing 2 while a flamethrower would set the tile on fire and instantly start the cocoon on fire too. Would make dealing with giant spiders very interesting when they retreat to heal, bursting from cocoons when they are idling and attacking people that get near.

Neutral. They can certainly use an Autolathe, yeah, but the board is in Tech Storage, they just to stop by RnD to get the matter bins, manipulator and console screen to build one. If they aren't willing to put in the footwork then they really don't need it.

I guess I'd +1 this. BRPED looks like it has a wand and is smaller, not sure how hard it would be to sprite that. That said, low-priority and never really bothered me since most people don't even know what the hell the RPED and BRPED do, I still get arrested from time to time for making bluelasers in the hall while clicking on machines to check levels.

Better known as how I got my Karma for Vox. Or at least used, people seem less grateful now days when you deliver all the best gear their job can use. As far as SOP changes go, I'm iffy on allowing Gygaxs to run around in Green. While he does raise a valid point that the Gygax is infact a better utility mech becuase of it's speed, the fact that it can still equip weapons makes it somewhat dangerous, especially since Robotics Fabricators aren't ID locked and it's pretty easy to break into the lab. As far as Phazons go, making SOP around them is redundant given how much RNGesus you need just to get miners active AND an anomaly in one round. I do like the idea of thrusters on Mechs though, they could pull from the internal air canister. Either making it a mech upgrade or an actual equipment slot would be fine to me, if we ever tweaked asteroid code to make boulder hoping relevant again I'd love to have a vectorable Ripley.

Well with that in mind Aranaus would need to have his damage tweaked to make it mostly non-lethal, as giving the HoS a pet that will quite happily kill anyone the HoS designates is going to end poorly when Ara gets sicked on petty criminals and kills them, I can think of at least a handful of regular HoS players who be tripping over themselves at the chance to kill people and have the alibi that they just couldn't pull Aranaus off in time.