davidchan

The problem with rev wasn't stealth converts, it was the fact that loyal(ty implanted) crew would bunker down in Security and the Revs would either take over Cargo or MedSci and the round would drag on for 2+hours as shuttle was disabled and only small raiding parties form either side would ever dare leave their fortress.

Gang would be fun. Rev? Please no. Not without serious tweaks to how it works and a hard time limit (say 90 minutes max) before the round ends in a draw or mutual loss to both sides (say CC sending DS, killing the loyal crew for failing to stop and put down the revs in a timely fashion as per protocol, and killing the revs because revs.)

IMO? Change the Drone Sprite when emagged so the 'eyes' glow red or they have some obvious "That drone looks suspicious" visual clue about them. Remove the drill (they never needed this anyways nor does it fit the MO) and replace it with an E-Dagger and ensure there is an inhand sprite for when the dagger is active. Keep or remove the 360 second timer, though the server as whole needs to consider if there really needs to be a 10 minute timer on drones, one of the few thing I like about tg drones is that drones can occupy shells, if crew doesn't want or is worried about rogue drones they can destroy the shells or make more as needed.

Had it been only the timer, or the removal of the drill, or limiting their mobility and table pass, it may have been acceptable nerf. But this nerf was the quintessential 'i ded plz nerf' response to a problem that could be solved with two clicks of an ion rifle or less. Most if not all the nerfs should be reverted and some new method implemented, as well as certain people coming to understand that 'No interference' does no mean or equate to 'run away from all crew on sight'

The problem in my opinion isn't that there are often too many prisoners for the Warden to handle, It's that Security officers aren't doing their job and doing a proper hand off of prisoners to the Warden. I.E. Security officers are just buckle cuffing a random person to a chair in processing and wandering off. They aren't checking and updating records, they aren't preparing evidence for review and they barely, if ever, are giving a verbal hand off to the Warden.If Officers are doing their job, and not just the fun parts of chasing people down and beating them, Warden is actually a fairly easy job. The HoS should definitely be helping and in the brig as much as the Warden if not more so, yet most seem too eager to patrol or sit on the bridge even if the Warden is drowning in 'prisoners' who have no criminal record or evidence of wrong doing.

Remove walls. Its 2558 people!

*Mimes a bike horn*

Station Goals were inherently flawed because they don't involve the station. DNA Vault comes the closest to being a crew wide objective, but still falls short as the bulk of the work is being done by the Botanist and Xenobiologist. Meteor Shield and BSA both can be accomplished by a competent engineering crew in the span of 30 minutes. Meteor Sats literally can be dragged to any old point in space, activated and have someone spam the computer to turn it on. Doesn't need power or babysitting. Even if an antag decides to sabotage it, why would they? They can't summon meteors to begin with and the shield doesn't inhibit the antag. BSA, while slightly more interesting, is similarly woefully unchallenging with minimal interactions on the crew. Find a secluded 14x4 area or larger, plate it, wire an APC to it and set up the consoles and equipment. Done. Find a Random GPS and fire. Antags have a little bit fun they can have with this, but its still not overly interesting once set up and the crew has very little they can do with it or consequences of setting it up since few people have access to GPS anyways. The reality of the situation is that the BSA and MS could be incorporated into regular station rounds with minimal impact overall, as a meteor shield would be set up alongside the engine early on the BSA just added to what ever engineering only fort they decide to build. In all cases, the hardest part about the crew objectives is just getting Cargo to order and deliver the crates, be it they not having the points or sending it to the wrong department for some silly reason. Or just refusing to approve an order they haven't seen before. Why CentCom directed goals aren't sent to the station for free, or automatically, is beyond me. Proper station goals should be ones that require 10-20 people attempting to work in coordination. A fire at the kitten orphanage leaving cargo with a crate full of kittens needing foster care by the crew with green text points awarded by how many are alive at the end of the round, well fed and not feral or otherwise hostile due to bad care. Space Refugees (ghost roles) needing food, medical care and shelter while NT looks for some port to offload them at, some with ulterior motives and side-antag status. Intercepted Data files that require decryption and various puzzles that need to be solved. Experimental new systems installed ot the Cyberaid that require testing, repairs and improvements, or even NT in the midst of negotations with a 3rd party and using the Cyberaid to bank roll said negotiations with random demands cropping up every 15 minutes that could range from exporting X number of items, repairing a shuttle that docks at arrivals or helping cure or weaponize a virus sample being sent to the station.

Having ones that actively encourage non-antagonist players to harass or instigate problems on the station? Not such a good idea. I think instead having minor, open ended objectives would be fine. 'Open a shop' 'Fix the old bar' 'Collect x items.', My main stipulation in adding these, is that they should all require some level of crew interaction to fulfill. So, not maint diving scavenger hunts, but rather trading or stealing a fluff item from every major department. @ZN23X@Alexkar598 I believe the main point of this topic is aimed at the fact that Civilian/Assistant jobs have little motivation to do anything, and usually break off into cliques or roam maint looking for things to do. Giving them non-antag related objectives might give these jobs and people some inspiration to do something to interact with the crew in a manner that isn't valid hunting or looting. Having 5 random Civs get an identical 'Throw a Party' objective might have a few of them realize others are throwing a party, and cause them to team up or even work against each other in attempts to have the better, bigger party. Objectives like these are meant to nudge people who might not be creative or otherwise motivated to find their own fun into do something that could be interesting for others to watch, interact with but not necissarily something that would put them at odds with Security (unless they chose to pursue their objective in the most greyshirt way.

And then what, add cargo points for exporting limbs and organs? We rimworld now. Start hat production.

I'll take reasons Security shouldn't be 100% garunteed to never have antags in their department for 200 Alex.

Someone needs to code a false bottom internals box that can hide 1-2 tiny objects in it and requires a specific emote or programmable action to view the hidden inventory, if sec wants to metagame that and go through a few dozen possible emotes/item combos to find the item, let them waste their time.

@Miraviel For the old guard, EOC used to be an actual crime in and of itself, simply being part of an organization opposed to NT in some way was justification for execution. Now it's not a crime but a category of suspects. Nuke ops aren't necessarily KoS either, given their implants detonate upon death and there is (or was) and end of round bonus points for capturing Operatives alive and getting them on the shuttle.

Re-read space law. Murder and Mutiny are the only two crimes Security may legally execute a prisoner over, and they still need the explicit approval from the Captain or Magistrate to carry out that execution. EoC was removed from space law a long time ago Shadowlings, Changelings, Hostile Wizards and Fully Powered Vampires are an exception to this, but only if there is no real means to contain them or non-lethally detain them. Antags that do fight back with lethal force can be killed as per SOP though it's still frowned upon if there are other viable options (cultist and thralls can be deconverted, for example.)

It is. Look at the tg community and look at the paradise community. They aren't in the same category. tg allows blatant killing of other players over minor inconveniences when either side won't back down, and antags almost always go full lethal since they know they are going to be permanently removed from a round if caught. Their rules allow and practically encourage shitty behavior with no RP, and the admins have to come up with shitty excuses why to ban someone who is clearly making the server less fun for other people, just look at their appeals forum. I don't agree with all of paradise's rules but they serve a purpose and they send a clear signal from the staff to the community on how behavior, rp and gameplay is acceptable. Antags are still people on paradise, only the most violent and dangerous antags are killed while those that can be safely contained and transported back to CC for debriefing are captured and kept alive because ICly they are more valuable to NT if the info they possess can be extracted. Giving sec/crew the right to kill any outed antag is only going to increase valid hunting behavior while making RP drop in quality and frequency

If you want tg rules go play on tg.

While I certainly don't agree with OP's proposed new role, and wouldn't be the least upset if the brig phys got removed from the brig or cut entirely, I do feel that at least part of the drive for more mixed department job slots is an attempt to get more people to play in a department, specifically Security as on high pop rounds even a full security dept can feel vastly outnumbered and unable to aptly do their jobs. If the server pop continues to rise we will eventually have to add jobs/job slots to various departments just to accommodate the growth. Problem is, ever since security got loyalty ensured detectives, brig phys, IAA/Lawyers they've felt entitled as a department to have people garunteed never to have antag motives to kill them, and the sacred green square on their SecHUD to always ensure such loyalty.

flash memes

You're going to pretend that Thralls are infinite resource and Slings can run forever, when a typical vampire can easily get 5000 blood or more by draining the blood they can practically get for free from genetics? To top this all off, Slings take heavy damage from common light sources like flares that can't be veiled, every emergency toolkit has these, candles in the chapel and library and random spawns throughout maint will kill a Sling faster than the chapel can kill a low level vamp.

We'll agree to disagree since Slings have numerous stats that work against them if the crew even bothers to fight back. Could their powers be toned down or reworked to make things play out better? Yes of course, are they worse than vamps? Not by a long shot. Vamps have a retarded number of abilities drawn from changeling and wizard lists, from mist form, to 3 different stuns they can use while prone and cuffed, x-rays they can unlock basically for free, true form removes almost all their weakness, something slings don't get till they literally won the game and the round is coming to an end. Edit: As far as sling balance goes, Thralls just need a rework so they are disoriented in bright light, or otherwise move slower. Exposures to bright lights (engineering lamps and such) should be how to deconvert them, not surgery. That or coming up with some radium cocktail or ground up glowshroom. Would allow NT loyalists to use light sources as weapons against thralls and slings alike, and make it even more important for thralls to snuff out all light sources they can find. Veil could use a longer cooldown, or if the coders can make it work dim lights down a few lumen levels so flashlights turn off for 5-10 seconds before turning back on, while brighter sources of light just dim down to a few tiles before restoring themselves. Global cooldowns shared between slings on certain abilities would be good as well, encouraging sec/crew to assault multiple lings at once since if one ling panics and uses all their abilities, the other would be stuck on cooldown themselves and easier to defeat. Forcing certain stronger abilities to require a second ling or number of thralls to function properly would be good as well, having thralls enter a 'channel' state where they can't move or talk but empower nearby sling abilities, but rendering them defenseless to anyone trying to break up the thrall ball.

Can someone explain to me why Shadowling, a roundtype that's at least fun to play in any of the roles involved with the struggle, is suddenly becoming hated and reviled despite multiple departments having the means and tools to limit or fight back against the slings, when roundtypes like vampire exist with blatant power gaming, mismatched kit, entirely unfun to combat and no real weaknesses? The fact that there is at least 1 PR up right now trying to nerf Slings when not a damn person has touched vampire as of now is troubling.

You're forgetting that an e-sword can be disarmed and used against the traitor, which is partially why it's allowed to be so powerful. Carp has no such downside and not factoring that into 'but DE-sword does this!' argument is plain ignorance.

carp and vampire probably represent two of the worst kinds of game design for SS13, both need to be looked and and tweaked accordingly. Carp shouldn't be more than 50% given that it triples your unarmed attack (effectively welder punches) and gives you a bunch of speshul moves including two garunteed disarms and two stuns, plus a massive damage to anyone prone or in crit finisher.

If the lockdown is against their laws (which they usually are) then they definitely should. The sheer power that console has is ridiculous, its little wonder many AIs who are malf, hacked or otherwise not trusting the crew make sure that console disappears. With the number of weaknesses and handicaps borgs have, super-unbreakable-remote-buckle-cuffing should not be one of them.

Could have a backdoor resist option, once the lockdown starts the Borg's internal CPU restarts and begins to override or bypass locked out circuits until it can retake control and restore movement? I'd argue 5 minutes but having been locked down and only passively questioned for nearly 30 minutes with nothing to is pretty painful, and if you open a new tab and entertain yourself people assume you're afk or SSD and just let you gather dust in the corner. Lockout definitely shouldn't be super-bucklecuff when self destruct exists.