Dinarzad

Why do we need the ability to emag an arcade game? Or a Security hailer, who shouldn't even HAVE an Emag to casually use to begin with? Because it's a thing for traitors to do, a route to take. If you're gonna ask "Why do we have to have this" Then the answer is going to be "We don't have to, but that doesn't mean we should remove it." Drones are by their nature, ignored by the crew a bit more then borgs are. They're a stealthier alternative in many scenarios, to cyborgs who are expected to take orders as per normal. A cyborg can give you a situational advantage (Medical borg for heals on demand, etc.) A drone is a totally overlooked synthetic that has a full compliment of engineering tools. It can make false walls for the traitor to get around easily, or can be sent to put the station on edge by shocking doors, syphoning air. Bonus points if the traitor in question emags APCs to make it look like a malf AI. And just because a drone is a dead player getting back into the round, doesn't mean jack diddles. Revenants, Swarmers, Xenos, Level 5 Biohazards, Holoparasites/Scarab Swarms, Cyborgs (You can print posibrains) and more, are all pulled from dead players. Five of those mentioned are straight up antags.

Oh. Well then. That... honestly seems like it shouldn't be the case. I mean the entire point of the console is "In case of malf-y drone, press 'The button' ". Considering Drones can respawn and have decent murder tools, it'd sorta make them like a disposal little spider bot for traitors to send at people, even if they "Survive" it'll probably be blown remotely. Assuming someone got it's number anyway. I'd be kinda all for that changing.

Limited to Saline-glucose and I agree. That's a slow, regenerating chem to heal Brute and Burn at a slow-ish pace. The two most common forms of damage. It wouldn't be able to do much with Suffocation or Toxins, but it's a Standard borg, that isn't its job. It's just a nice little boon. Can we agree on Hypo with Saline-Glucose and Epinefrine? Ehhh. Epi is pretty fuggin strong. BUT Every crewman starts with an emergency injector of Epinephrine, so I guess I can agree it's common enough it wouldn't break shit.

Nnnno. Drones do not have an RCD, not even e-magged ones. That's only engineering borgs. Besides, people forget there's a drone console in engineering that can issue a kill command, as far as I know emagging a drone doesn't make it immune to that.

They don't get a Sonic Jackhammer though, they get a Mining Drill (For... sssssome reason..) I wanna say a Diamond one, but I'm not... sure. Still not sure why a mining drill of all things. They used to get a Plasma cutter which made more sense, but was sort of OP. I don't entirely know if they NEED any special emagged item like borgs get, they're fairly equipped with murder tools as it is, industrial welders and the like.

Limited to Saline-glucose and I agree. That's a slow, regenerating chem to heal Brute and Burn at a slow-ish pace. The two most common forms of damage. It wouldn't be able to do much with Suffocation or Toxins, but it's a Standard borg, that isn't its job. It's just a nice little boon.

*gets emagged* *suddenly goes and slices up person who killed them/sec officer who arrested them/ai* it's OP tbh, they're the only non-simple mob that literally anybody can instarespawn into. Actually it takes 10 minutes of being a ghost to spawn as a drone. It's ... really not "Insta-respawn" In addition, Drones are not all THAT often e-magged. I've seen evil drones like... two maybe three times in a month. There's WAY better an safer options them evil drones. Drones are very easily destroyed, and as soon as it starts hitting someone, you put up a GIANT red flag that someone is a traitor, and from the Traitor's perspective, you're also putting faith into a drone to get the job done. You're better off getting a holoparasite if you want a cohort, or an emagged borg.

I'm of two minds on it. Half of me agrees that Death is not a big deal an most the time people need to grow a set an deal with it. Death happens, and it's SUPER easy to fix if the body is found, and if someone is hiding a body as a non-antag then that's fairly blatant shittery. The second half of me thinks that we're already so low on RP, that just letting people stab each other to death is the nail in the coffin. Then again, it might give Security legitimate major crimes to deal with that are not antagonist related. Detectives might get legit murder cases without having to assume someone is an EoC at the end of the day. Giving sec a chance to handle something before Admins step in with an A-help might be the middle ground.

That's not what a Strawman is. I never misrepresented your argument or points to make them easier to attack. If anything YOU have been strawmanning ME continually. What I did was set up a comparison of two situations, using IPCs inability to do something as a comparative point for Plasmamen inability to do something. But writing off an entire argument because of a presumed Strawman (Which I disagree with, but we'll assume for sake of argument it's there and I don;t see it.) Is in itself a fallacy https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy Now if you don't LIKE my comparative illustrations, then cool beans. I'm sorry to hear it, but whatever. As per the edit to my previous stupid long post, I've thrown up the white flag for the war of attrition, you win or whatever. You wanna go ahead an say how an where I Strawman'd a strawman while I was manning straws, you knock yourself out, cuz I'd love to know, but 'm probably not gonna respond further cuz it's cloggin' shit up.

I had a really long ass post in here, but it's... genuinely not worth the effort anymore. I'm not budging and neither are you. What I WILL Say though, is that saying I was "Singling out" plasmamen just cuz I don;t like them and thus hatched a dark and sinister plan to piss in everyone's cheerios because of that, is flat out an ad hominem attack to bypass my argument and attack my character and supposed "Motivations" directly. And is primarily bullshit, since I've been saving up KP for months now to actually BUY the species so I can play as one. In fact if anything I'm annoyed they're so expensive an it's taking so long But. yeah, hey cool whatever, man. I mean I guess you win the debate or something by default since I'm throwing in the towel and giving in to apathy on the matter so. Insert fireworks here or something.

I'm really actually not. I was... pretty clear in my other post. If a Plasmaman being "Unable to work on the tesla" due to his suit is a huge problem ,to the point of "Uselessness" Then an IPC engineer being unable to work on the singularity is ALSO "Critical" and should be changed, no? Because it's the same problem. The origins of that problem are not the same. But the end result is "I can't do X because I am Y." Because if one is a problem, then so is the other, and you can't just say "Well THAT one is okay! But this is TOTALLY broken!" when the only difference in the result is how the product was assembled to get there. Unless you are intentionally trying to misinterpret everything I have said or have just been skimming posts, that is, not even REMOTELY close to what I have been saying. At all. By ANY scope of imagination. I am using IPCs as an illustration, not an argument to buff IPCs (Which should be obvious since I have made several addendums to please NOT actually buff IPCs.) It is strictly a comparison that being "Useless" because they can't go out and do Tesla engine maintenance/repair is absolutely fucking laughable. Because IPCs and Engineering Borgs have been in that boat since inception and they get through life JUST fine. They don't need it to "Do their job." Any more then IPCs need EMP shielding to do THEIR job when a singularity is being used. You WANT it, because it makes life easier, but that's very different then a REQUIREMENT. It's not "Critical" it be changed, in fact it is MORE interesting and fun to leave it UNCHANGED because then it provides some fuckin gameplay differences and actually means engineering teams with plasmamen on staff, have to make a more interesting choice on what engine to use, isntead of just "lol tesla"

Pretty much this. You can always just have a regular security officer go undercover, really at any point in time. It's not like you can't remove the security gear from yourself and dress as a civvie.

Aaand that's no different then an IPC engineer being totally unable to do anything on the singulo. To which it has never been a serious complaint. If a plasmaman is trying to call the shuttle cuz, "lol sorry I can't do my job." Then politely inform him the singularity engine exists, to quit slacking off and do his job or he can freely give it up to someone else who WILL do it for him. If the engine was picked to be Tesla before he arrived or it's over his head, then he's not the ONLY engineer and someone else can maintain it. JJJJJJJJJJJJJust like an IPC with a singulo engine... Again. You're either against both or not at all, let's stick to just one single standard we have no need for two. Either IPCs being unable to work on the singularity is ALSO a problem, or Plasmamen being unable to work on the Tesla engine isn't one. Because they're the same thing, it's just the origination of the problem is different. One is an innate racial trait, the other is a suit issue. The end result is "If you are X then Engine Y = not viable." in both scenarios You either fix both, or learn to live with it. It offers more gameplay choice and variety. It's engineering's job to to both start and maintain the engine, and make repairs to station as needed, as well as construction when needed. All of which is still... perfectly capable of both plasmamen and IPC to do... So long as it is one particular engine type. And if the CE in charge disregards the fact his team is plasmamen and makes a Tesla, that's... his own fucking fault for being a dipshit, no? Like a HoP assigning all of mining as Kidans, and then being mad when mining goes slow because they can't wear mesons.

That's not how that works. You pointed out a very specific incident, evidently some sort of rule that is continually proving to be problematic or various rules that you're not pointing to. You're saying "Five times an admin has come to talk to me about breaking rules that were vaguely worded" and then not pointing those rules in question out to prove as examples. How can any investigation into the rules take place if nobody knows WHAT rules are even causing problems in the first place? It'd be like if I said "Those things you did are rude." and on asking what you did wrong I just replied with "No if I tell you, then you'll never learn!" It's sort of so vague to the point that nobody has any starting point to work from. You don't even know what you did wrong, just that it was... something. We sort of NEED some examples of rules that have caused you issue in the past so the staff can have a place to start from and work from there.

Basically my point. It may originate from an unintended oversight, but it provides more interesting gameplay then what the fix would make. At least then there's at least SOME semblance of a decision to be made about what engine to use.

Except they don't. Being "Tesla-immune" inside your suit is in no way required for any part of of Engineering, other then a Tesla engine getting loose, which frankly, is not something any race should just be able to go "lolimmune" at just by nature of existing. There is always that fancy singulo engine sitting right there, and the engineering suits DO get Radiation reduction/immunity just like normal hardsuits do. They have an alternative. To say they "need" it to do their job, is a very big exaggeration. If it is a bug/forgotten factoid during a port is probably true, it's almost definitely not intended, but it's something that should not and does not need to be changed, and actually means an alien race in a job slot has to change shit up, has to be taken into consideration and thus changes the game. Something we could use a lot fucking more of. The comparison to IPC was in the fact that, the singulo engine puts off EMPs like no tomorrow and for ages we did not have a Tesla engine to speak of. But the fact that IPC engineers could not go NEAR the engine, didn't really change anything, they got no special treatment. You just had to deal with the fact you weren't as good at engineering as a human, mechanically speaking. The same applies here. Your suit is not Tesla-proof. You just have to work around that. Atmos techs NEED the fire immunity, since fire duty is their only real job right now, and there is no real alternative way to approach a fire then "Put it out." and deal with the heat as you fix the room Security needs the extra padding for antag duty and dealing with shitty greytide. They have no alternative, this is their one job. Miners need the bomb and melee immunity for their encounters with Gibtonite and Xenos. Because while gibtonite can be avoided, Xenos are at every corner. Technically this can be avoided though. Engineers do NOT need to be immune to a rampaging engine that they failed to contain/Was sabotaged. They can just use the OTHER engine. They have a perfectly viable alternative.

Pretty much this. Nobody has exactly lobbied to remove the EMP on the Singulo because of IPC Engineers or Engie borgs, that's just one of the hazards of being that race in that job. This is how it is for Plasma-bros. You're Tesla vulnerable.

Vox, Plasmaman and IPC Confederation take over the now airless station.

please god no Shitposting aside, I think the reason we don't have full-body augments available by default is because, if knowledge serves, stuff like cyborg torsos and so on actually provide significant damage reduction to the person. Like, Gunther Hermann augs. So, being the sort of person who powergames his characters blood types, I'd totally get some of that sweet built-in DR and so would lots and lots of people. Internal organs would probably be fine though. We've already got hearts and eyes, not much aside from code stopping us from getting iron lungs, and I don't think there's any other internal organs of consequence aside from brain. As far as I know cyber limbs don't take any extra damage. Their downsides are the fact they pop off a bit easier, that they go on the fritz when damaged too much, and you cannot use chems. Any damage over a certain threshold is internal damage which requires synthetic style repair surgery. Prosthetics used to be almost straight upgrades before that last part got added. Now they're slightly better then a fleshy limb but one good EMP and you can RIP in pieces and if they get too busted you still gotta have surgery, just... with a roboticist instead of a Surgeon. Minor injuries are easier to fix with welder an cables tho.

...That's... interesting, I was PRETTY sure a stunprod was a melee weapon, the exact same as the alcohol bottle which ALSO fits in your bag the same a prod. And that you could surprise people with neurotoxin by putting it in someone's food an shit. And slips can be thrown to the tile in front of someone as they are walking.

I think you're the only other person I've heard bring this up. I'm the only Skrell I've ever seen that only eats veggies like they're supposed to. That being said, I don't really see why this needs to be enforced via mechanics, but hey, if someone feels like coding it. Also, if anyone is up for the suggestion I'd be totally ok with Skrell doing less physical damage and maybe being resistant to oxyloss. I'm really one of the very few that play Skrell, and I hardly ever have time to play anymore, but if any other players I don't know of want to chime in feel free. As someone who USED to play a Skrell but stopped. Most the reason I stopped was just cuz it fel so... samey? Like I was identical as a human, with some sick water breathing skills... that I NEVER got to even casually lull around with cuz the only water is the pool. (This was before the beach got expanded on.) I don't mind races having fluff only sorta stuff. Like IPCs being able to *buzz or Vox having the SONGS OF THEIR PEOPLE. Greys have their telepathy and mini-hivemind. But Skrell don;t really have anything like that. You got their racial language and sick amphibian skills that they can't even casually have fun with more often then not. I like them an maybe I'll see if I can go for one again, buuuuut. Those were the problems I had in the end.

Excellent point, it could be considered the "stealth" option because it doesn't mark you as an antag. It can steall be a stealth option but just with a chance to backfire As i said we can use budget to half the backfire chance and insulated gloves to completly remove it OR we can opt to not fix what is neither broken nor a problem. This entire debate has progressively felt more an more like it spawned from an 'i ded' moment, and so far, that feeling hasn't been changing. The only counter argument people have given is "but stuns tho" and the proposed 'nerfs' aren't even REMOTELY balanced, they're basically nerfing something into the ground to the point it is basically a waste of effort to use an more likely to act as a trap for the wielder. Shit happens. You get robusted. You die. You get ganked in maintenance, ambushed or stabbed to death by a tator, stunprodded an have C4 shoved into your mouth where you then explode. You die. Death is SS13, an SS13 is a Space Death Simulator. Bad things can and will happen. If you wander alone in maintenance tunnels you run the risk of being nabbed or stabbed. It happens. You get salty in D-chat for a bit an then go on with your life and your day, alt tab to some youtube or music if you died real early in the round. This attitude of late of people nerfing anything REMOTELY dangerous or getting salty over being killed doing dangerous things (As an antag or non-antag) is building up to an annoying degree. It's fine. Stop touching it. Learn how to lose and take fun in the game itself, not just the green colored text at the end. Your death probably just made the round more interesting for a lot of other people after all. (Coincidentally, you can always build one yourself, since they're apparently just so easy for everyone an their mom to make, now you have your own self-defense stick.)

This is operating off the assumption that Vox operate biologically the same as humans (they don't). We should implement measures to set species apart even if it is minor, Vox actually receieved a buff when we changed to goonchem as baychem Dexalin was rather toxic to them, and the replacement (Salbutamol) was never made toxic to Vox. Actually wanna weigh in on his a bit (Even tho it's late), that Salbutomal shouldn't be toxic, due to, as was said a while ago, it being a muscle relaxant to open the lungs. HOWEVER Perflurodecalin SHOULD be HIGHLY Toxic to Vox, because the entire point of the medicine, even IRL, is to provide a major boost of oxygen to the body, because in medical purposes it's HIGHLY Oxygenated to the point it is being studied in liquid breathing. Perfluro is also the better suffocation med, being analagous to Dex+ so forcing Vox into having to make do with Salbutomal, the slower option is still a nerf. Or iunno, just feed 'em nitrogen pills or something iunno.

I stated the primary features of the species from a single file. I didn't call it OP or call it some variant Human+. I find it fascinating that you got the impression I called it OP just by listing the primary traits it has. Kinda says a lot. You're also cherry picking selective context as it suits you, from only a single post The "Impression" Seems pretty clearly broadcast to me, not sure how you think it's "Fascinating" as though it were some sign of people being 'defensive' over it.

Except for the fact no other makeshift weapon in the game has a disadvantage to using them. The closest to a "Disadvantage" I can find here, is spears not fitting in a bag, thus being super visible and Flamethrowers spewing out plasma everywhere if the tank pressure is too high. Literally every single other makeshift weapon I looked up, is simply a poor-man's alternative to something else. Zip ties are easier to break, IED's have a random 3 to 8 second timer and so on. There is no makeshift weapon that actively fucks you over for it's use, batons have lower stun time and fewer uses before needed a recharge. That's perfectly in line with everything else. What you're wanting changed is not the baton, it's the fact that stuns dominate combat. He who has the stun/lands it first wins the brawl and even if you nerfed the prod, Disarm intent would like to have a word with you after it procs it's random knockdown. Changing prods WON'T fix it.