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This is a discussion thread for a PR I am going to put up after the freeze is over. What does the PR add? A bot that automatically takes SSD people to cryo. Why is this a good idea? 1) It stops SSD people littering the hallways 2) It frees their job slots, resulting in more usable job slots for everyone else 3) It frees up admin time currently spent stopping clueless newbies from attacking/stripping these SSD people How does it work? 1) There's a bot, rather like an automated ambulance trolley, that lives in cryodorms. 2) When it detects someone is SSD (and alive, and not buckled to a chair, and on the station zlevel, and a few other conditions) it wakes up, zooms over to them, picks them up, carries them back to cryodorms, and dumps them into a cryopod. 3) If all cryopods are full, it drops them on the floor next to a pod. 4) If the person wakes up before the bot arrives, it won't pick them up. If the person wakes up in transit, they can hop off at any time. If they're put in cryo, they still have the normal cryo timeout to log back in before they're moved to long-term storage. 5) The bot will open any normal door, and closes them quickly behind it to prevent tailgating. It can path around most obstacles. It won't hurt you if it runs into you. It moves quite fast, and is hard for greytide to destroy. Code comparison: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradis ... yep:ssdbot

I worry that softening the line between antags and non-antags will result in confusion and bwoinks. The existing "attitude towards NT" system is *meant* to do this already, but it doesn't work at all.

I've always wanted to see this. Not sure about the balance impact, but as a concept, it is interesting.

I asked if I could put up a PR that increases job slots for some jobs with plentiful resources (things like Engineer, Scientist, Atmos, MD, Sec Officer, Cargo tech, Etc). Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to qualify as a "fix", and so will have to wait until after the freeze.

The spirit of the rule is "don't harm SSD players". Doing the above would harm them. Therefore, don't do it.

If I'm having a drink with someone in the bar, it doesn't matter if their name is Joe Smith, Hank Hill, or Sonic The Hedgehog. Similarly, it doesn't matter if they're a generic human, someone in a mafia costume, or they're going all out to look/act like a well-known cartoon character. If I find them interesting, I'll interact with them, no matter what their name or costume is. If I don't, I won't. It is that simple. Their name/costume doesn't matter. Whether they're pretending to be a well-known character or not doesn't matter. What matters is whether they are interesting. Original characters are more likely to be interesting, but originality is only one factor of many. This is a 2D spaceman game. Let people be who they want. If you don't like it, well, you can usually just ignore them. Policing character names/uniqueness is not a worthwhile use of admin time. Also, making this comment (especially in small font) is severely corrosive to your credibility.

Tested this a little today. Their disguise ability is neat, and the little worm-Yin are surprisingly cute.

There are lots of cheap hosting services. Putting the forums, wiki and database there would keep them up while the game server was down. Even things like the discord bot would work. Downside: potential lag between SS13 server and database server.

If people are not willing to look at blinky/flashy newscasters, with a variety of custom stories (often with both text and pictures), why do you think they'd take the time to read wanted posters?

After many updates, etc, this ultimately did not work out. My closing comment from the github:

Sprite request closed, as the PR was rejected.

Last time injunctions were brought up, even as a concept, the response from the folks in charge of Space Law / SoP was "hell no". I don't see injunctions getting a second life anytime soon. They're just too abusable.

Totally disagree. I think we should have more votes on the server, not less. Sure, most of our regulars have forum accounts. That said: 1) Not all do. Especially not on github. Even those that do might not check them as regularly as they log into the game. 2) Doing things on forum/github gives far disproportionate influence to people who don't actually play on the server much, if at all. These people should not have as much influence as the people who actually play on the server consistently. 3) Forum/github/etc is essentially useless for any straw poll, or vote that needs to be concluded quickly, such as "should we have an extended round right now?" 4) Creating server polls in-game already requires a ridiculous level of permissions, I think the R_PERMISSIONS flag that only very high-level staff have. Are we seriously considering the idea that we don't trust our headmins to use their best judgement on whether or not to run polls? Seriously? Hell, I'd go further and say that the ability to run polls should be given to all senior and fullmins as well. If there's a group of admins on, and we're deciding whether or not to have an adminbus round, being able to do a poll first to gauge how people are feeling would help us keep the playerbase happy.

I like the idea, but I worry that if it was this involved, it would distract from the main fun of the round. Though equally, people might enjoy competing for currency?

http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Crab_Squad - should just be an entry on events page. Should also be deleted from job list. http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Space_Ninja - should also be deleted from job list - hasn't been in the code for awhile.

Try this: http://monster860.github.io/rndTool.html

Challenge accepted. I'll give you a list of what I've done / am aware of happening relative to some issues raised in this thread. As an aside, though, you can influence the direction of the server by discussing proposals on the forums, or voting on the github. The github is really underused. There are many proposals there which are tied for upvotes/downvotes. Your single upvote could make the difference between a proposal being tied - or having majority support or opposition. So, yeah, vote. I've been working on several PRs to add danger/entropy, such as: - Terror Spiders https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4229 (adds dangerous, entropy-generating spiders) - Easier admin characters: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4717 (makes it easier for admins to run some types of events, ie: create new situations) - Syndicate Infiltration Teams https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4816 (groups of syndicate agents who infiltrate together) I worked on a PR for this (https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4752) but it was not popular, so I moved on to other ideas. I'm currently doing three things about this: 1) Making a point to try to channel deadchat in a healthier direction when I see it being salty 2) Trying to pull more ghosts into the round where possible 3) Thinking about doing a PR which challenges ghosts to live up to their words and help fix the problems they see - a sort of "troubleshooter squad", selected from ghosts, which challenges ghosts to actually get on station and help out the people they're complaining about not knowing the game. Or, alternatively, a special sort of pAI. I've been on a bit of a campaign recently to shift our thinking towards a greater concern for fun. I would like to revisit other jobs from the Viro/Psych/Atmos/QM/BrigPhys/Barber/... list and see if I can do anything to make them more fun. At some point I also hope to do that evaluation of Paradise's mechanics with a focus on fun that I mentioned. This is an active discussion. I too would like to see more freedom for antags. Some admins try to keep the rounds interesting when this happens. They add new antags, run an event, or whatnot. Something to prevent the round being an hour and a half of nothing happening. I've seen it done and it usually gets good results. I've put a PR up that tries to make perma less boring: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4747 I've got another PR up which tries to make parole more of an option: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4766 More chances for criminals (antags included) to potentially avoid wasting away in perma, and keep the round interesting. There's an active PR about trying to rebalance the tesla: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4695 Yeah, people are too quick to point out antags based on metaknowledge. The other day, a player was defibbed and instantly went "X killed me". X consented to a search, but within 30 seconds everyone figured out he was a ling with EMP implant, and within 60 he was killed. He was trying to RP a bit, admittedly not very well, but he was trying, and he got killed for it. Banning knowledge doesn't work, though. The only way to really address the root cause of this problem is to invalidate the knowledge. For example, cult books in gateway and fake runes made of crayon make people much less likely to scream "CULT". I'd like to see anti-metagaming techniques used to disrupt other common methods of identifying antags. For example, I'd like to see some traitor items being available as loot in hidden corners of the station (randomly determined, in a minority of rounds). Just something to stop people identifying antags so quickly using metaknowledge. There's a PR up for voting right now which disrupts metaknowledge: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4688 I've been trying to address this to the extent I can, by things like this: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4694 Prompting admins when a fax is received, giving more options for replies, etc. Making sure admins don't miss requests. Right now, there are two different PRs up for consideration that add/expand/change gateway levels: - My terror spiders PR: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4229 - The Space Hotel PR: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4700 Also, you might find the space ruins PR relevant: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4780 While I was not there for that round, I was part of the "divorce" event that was run later. It was one of the most memorable rounds of SS13 for me. I agree we need more rounds like that.

I have a PR up right now which does exactly this: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4747 Vote for it.

So, it is never legit to demand a trial for: - holy water use - implants use Perhaps add: 5) Decide the length of the trial in advance. While some overrun is normal, having a time limit encourages all sides to get to the point and avoid wasting time. It also makes it easier to convince busy people to attend/participate - if they know it won't drag on all shift. So, yelling it occasionally is OK? CC has a bad record when it comes to responding to faxes. Perhaps present this fax to HoS/Captain and invite them to judge it first. If they think it should go to CC, send it to CC, but IMHO sending it to CC will probably just delay the process. Again with this 1st v 2nd degree. Call them something the average person understands, please. E.g: Murder v manslaughter. I'd suggest adding a few examples of things IAA should never do, e.g: - Physically release prisoners against the wishes of security - Give away their IAA sec-access headsets or keys - Distracting security by continually screaming 'my client is innocent!' with zero evidence Perhaps including something about tracking/chem implants in parole might be wise. Especially as there is a PR currently up which changes them. Updating all references from "loyalty" to mindshield (once the relevant PR goes through) would be good. So would ensuring that procedures for loyalty/mindshield implantation are covered somewhere. This is not grounds to impede security. This is grounds to clal in the HoS/Captain/CC. Impeding them won't change their behavior. I thought this was the NT Rep's job? This made me laugh. Leave it in, though. Perhaps add: "if a magistrate attempts to do this, contact CC". Perhaps add "In such communication, the magistrate should clearly outline: - The fact their decision was ignored - What the decision was - What security did instead - The fact that the magistrate has already told them that they outrank them when it comes to sentencing, and sec ignored this" Such a concise summary would help CC decide if intervening was necessary. We should keep the sections on brigging. I would also suggest bolding the lines that explain what each category of prisoner is allowed to have. E.g: - Tempbrig prisoners may keep their uniform, headset, ID, PDA and shoes. - Permabrig prisoners must wear orange prison uniforms. They may keep their (demoted) ID card and headset. Headset can be confiscated if they abuse it. - Vox are allowed to retain their internals in either case. Plasmamen may retain their suit and internals in either case.

We're doing OK. I wouldn't say especially well or badly. But well enough. I do see room for improvement / issues we could tackle. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7851&start=40 has my opinion on several of these. I agree that atmos problems are not generally dangerous, and I would like to see them be more so. Being an atmos tech is not fun if hull breaches are harmless. You feel unnecessary. I agree that Engineers need more to do. That can be fixing things, or it could be space to run big construction projects, or something else. I agree, rounds could use more danger/entropy. I would like to see bombs used more often. They involve security, engineering, medical... they're big drivers of interest and fun. Sure, they're destructive, but they're also great at making things more interesting for a big chunk of people in the round. IMHO, the main issue with medical is that there are fast, permanent treatments available for any condition. Even death only requires throwing your body in a cloner. Not even that, with a defib. Permanent death is hard. Science can even upgrade the cloner to scan husks. Getting dusted is almost impossible - one of the only ways to have it happen (xenobio chem) was recently removed. I'd like to see more work for medical to do. E.g: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8003 - incurable chronic conditions. When people do this, I try to make a point of saying "Chill folks, he might be new", or "would you like to volunteer to teach him?". Fun is more important than balance. Consider foo strategies: These are strategies put into the game in a deliberately unbalanced state, to give new players a way to compete with veterans, and get them to stick around long enough to enjoy the depth the game has to offer. They're not rare, either. Even the biggest, most popular games, like CoD, use this technique. SS13, being an incredibly complicated game, would benefit enormously from these foo strategies. Indeed, we might already have some, such as spamming disarms. IMHO, we need to worry much less about balance, and much more about fun. I would love to see a through evaluation of Paradise's mechanics, with a focus on fun, rather than balance. I imagine many jobs would need extensive revision to make them fun, such as Viro, Psych, Atmos Tech, QM, Brig Phys, Barber, etc. I've been thinking of doing a PR which would buff the ability of Security to securely parole people. My theory being that Sec is more likely to parole people if they feel they can do so safely. Parole leads to more fun than any kind of brig sentence. Agreed. It generates vastly more power than the Singulo. It is also faster to set up, and safer. There is no reason to ever use the Singulo when the Tesla exists. Singulo v Tesla should be a lively debate, with pros and cons to each. Not a situation where one is better than the other in every single way. Personally, I'd love to see at least one big, empty room that could function as a construction area. Not the pitifully small construction area already in Eng. I'm thinking something probably twice the size of the Assembly Line. Eng construction projects take space, and there is nowhere on the existing station that adequately supports them right now. This is a big reason why engineers tend to move over to the derelict to do big projects - there just isn't enough open space on the station. Yeah, people are too quick to point out antags based on metaknowledge. The other day, a player was defibbed and instantly went "X killed me". X consented to a search, but within 30 seconds everyone figured out he was a ling with EMP implant, and within 60 he was killed. He was trying to RP a bit, admittedly not very well, but he was trying, and he got killed for it. Banning knowledge doesn't work, though. The only way to really address the root cause of this problem is to invalidate the knowledge. For example, cult books in gateway and fake runes made of crayon make people much less likely to scream "CULT". I'd like to see anti-metagaming techniques used to disrupt other common methods of identifying antags. For example, I'd like to see some traitor items being available as loot in hidden corners of the station (randomly determined, in a minority of rounds). Just something to stop people identifying antags so quickly using metaknowledge. Many of the crew are bored during their shifts. IMHO, part of the solution to this is giving them new, fun things to do which aren't just hunting antags.

More generally: A) Lots of heads don't manage their departments very well. RD is not special in this regard. Science has a bunch of people working on dangerous stuff. It is hard to manage. If you want it to be better managed, consider suggesting something that would make it easier for RDs to manage. The door remote is a good example - that feature makes it quicker/easier for RDs (and the other heads) to manage their departments. You could also approach it from a policy standpoint - making it easier for RDs to have scientists who are going nuts kicked out of science. B) Telescience doesn't strike me as impossible to balance. Create some object that blocks teleportation within X radius of it. Put one of them in the brig. Put another in gravity generator so it covers Captain's Office, etc. Or, simply alter the telescience console so it requires an ID with the relevant access to teleport from/to an area. E.g: a command ID to teleport from/to command areas. C) Much less focus on nerfing Science/RD and much more focus on ways of making other jobs/antag roles more fun / interesting. Many, perhaps even most of the rounds I've seen today have had the antags doing very, very little. It makes for long, boring rounds.

This is because the psych is the only staff member in medbay who doesn't cure any mechanic-driven health condition. I've actually got a branch where I've coded some of these. I haven't submitted a PR for it, though. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8003 Warden's job?

N. Psychiatrist is a job where you try to keep a bunch of ax-crazy individuals, from many diverse alien species, happy and sane, while they are surrounded by deadly threats, on a remote space station, far from home, where nobody will hear or care if they all die screaming. Which happens. Every few hours. And when it does, the powers that be just send in their clones to try again. Even you yourself, the Psych, could be a clone because you were horribly [REDACTED!] just minutes ago, and you wouldn’t even know it. It would certainly explain why the crew can witness people being murdered in front of them without batting an eye - they’re all so desensitized to death and suffering that some of them have made the conscious decision "I will not let horrifying screams from the next room distract me from my work". And those are considered the normal ones. Imagine being a Psych in that environment. Even keeping yourself sane would be a challenge, let alone the rest of the crew. If you want people to play Psych, give them some mechanics-based things they can do. E.g. drugs they can give out that counter various built-in, mechanic-based mental conditions. E.g: let people pick mental disabilities, not just physical ones, in char creation, and let the psych treat or at least manage these. What about hallucinations, for example? Adding that as a persistent mental condition would leverage all the existing hallucination code, as well as the Psych's anti-hallucination drugs. All it would require is the ability to save mental traits in char creation - one of which being "sometimes has bouts of hallucinations". Fairly easy to add others, too, like phobias about touching certain things, or an anxiety disorder that makes you jittery when too many people are around you. Don’t merge Psych with Chaplain. Chaplains have got a truly ridiculous amount of attention/buffs in the last year. They’ve gone from being priests to holy crusaders, and treating psych like it could just be another alt title for them is even more power creep than usual, even for the already-too-prominent Chaplain. Also, would YOU ask the High Priest of HONK for counselling? Not bloody likely. It isn’t remotely close to their job. They’re priests. They have no medical training. Also, I feel the "forceful psych" angle is very much overused. I've seen Psychs in SS13 straightjacket people for stupid reasons. Psychs shouldn't tranq or restrain their patients unless they absolutely have to for their (the Psych's!) safety, or the patient is wanted by security for processing after the psych releases them. Instead, the Psych should be thought of as a service provider. Rather like the chef (who provides food for the hungry), the Psych provides counselling and/or drugs for the ill. Although they do handle people who have gone totally off the rails, that isn't their primary job. Their primary job should be things like counselling the person who saw their dead body after cloning, ensuring the person who sees hallucinated aliens everywhere takes their meds, and providing advice on how to deal with coworkers that insist on stealing the minerals.

Put up a PR for this: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4606

I see no reason to treat botanists differently than xenobiologists/scichemists/etc when it comes to the mobs they can create. If a botanist creates dangerous bees that escape, they should lose their right to raise any more bees, and be required to destroy all their existing bees, since obviously they cannot be trusted to keep them contained. If their bees kill anyone, the botanist should face a manslaughter charge. If the botanist insists on raising a variety of hostile and deadly creatures, like multiple kinds of deadly bees, they should expect to get boinked. No, "someone else let them out!" is never an excuse. You're responsible for the mobs you create. If someone breaking a window unleashes beegeddon, you've failed to secure the mobs you've been creating. Engineering exists for a reason, and is perfectly capable of reinforcing your workspace if you ask. Being a botanist is not an excuse to be terrible and get your fellow crew killed as a non-antag.