Kyet

Seeing this posted makes me sad. Just a few days ago, I had the specific thought "well, at least, despite all the whining about genetics, we don't have that shitty rule that genetics can't take their genemods outside the lab". I play RD a lot, and genetics not at all - therefore I'm often the person who gets called on to fix issues with genetics being stupid. The other day I had to re-humanize a genetics guy who managed to monkey himself AND corrupt his "clean" SE so he couldn't fix himself easily AND leave his ID behind so he was locked out of his own lab. So, you'd expect me to be in favor of this SOP change. Yet, I am not. Not at all. The way I see it, genetic powers are like cars. They are incredibly useful. Incredibly powerful tools. We don't take away everyones' right to drive just because a few people cause car crashes. Most people use their cars responsibly. Most genetics staff use their powers responsibly. Yet, we're considering heavily restricting it for everyone simply because of the behavior of a minority. I highly doubt the people that run around smashing things with hulk, etc, are going to think "oh, I was going to smash people with hulk/TK/whatnot, but I guess since it is against SOP now I guess I won't". Those people don't give a damn about SOP, and adding more rules to SOP isn't going to matter to them one bit. Most of the newbies who do this sort of thing, I'm fairly sure, have never read SOP, not even once, and probably don't even know it exists. All this change will do is annoy and limit the people who are trying to have fun responsibly. In short: the only people who will be stopped from misusing genetic powers by this are the people who are already responsible with them. It won't matter to the irresponsible people. At least it only applies on code green, and thus doesn't apply most of the time, since most of the time, we're at blue. Most gene mods are invisible, too. Nobody is going to force a genetics researcher into a DNA scanner to check their DNA. Unless they actually use those combat mods, nobody will know they have them. In practice, this makes it a "don't walk around with the few visible combat mods, like hulk/TK, on green, unless you can either disguise them or you're confident the RD won't care" rule. I guess that's kinda useful, in that it encourages RDs to demote genetic researchers who totally ignore the rules and are likely to cause issues. I feel like that's a band-aid fix, however. The underlying problem is that many RDs don't demand the demotion of genetics staff no matter how badly they screw up, and a better fix for that would to make sure head roles, all head roles, know they can, should, and are expected to demote staff of theirs who violate SOP in ways that creates problems for the station and/or harms other crew. Yeah, that's already part of SOP, but I feel most command staff don't follow it. I get the feeling we're using the wrong tool for the job - we're putting all this effort into updating SOP when the existing SOP is often ignored. What makes us think that the updated SOP will be followed any more closely? Sad thing is, I'm not sure what would make heads of staff more effective at handling this sort of thing. Perhaps a more detailed "on join" message when they spawn, explaining exactly what their responsibilities are? Frequent reminders in-game are better than walls of text on the wiki. Very true. Punishing people for violating SOP/etc is simply not viable sometimes. Late-night, for example, I often have to choose whether I want to demote one of my two sec officers for fucking up, or not. Yeah, they screwed up, but if I do it I lose half my sec force, and if there are security issues I just can't afford to do that. Banning might be a little too harsh. "Be good at your job" seems like too much to expect from everyone. However, I would support the idea of "soft jobbans", which cap their preference for that job to "low". IE someone softbanned from command jobs could still get those jobs, but they could never set their preference for them to anything above "low", so if anyone else wanted them, they'd get them first. Essentially, they wouldn't be banned from having the job, they just wouldn't be NT's preferred candidates for it. I hate whitelisting with a passion. Yeah, it reduces the # of bad players who fill that job slot - but it also massively reduces the number of good players too. Whitelisting a job might remove perhaps 75% of all players who would otherwise play that job from playing it - and the vast majority of those will be roughly average. You're removing far more good players, than bad players. A better idea would be to convert the "days played" time lock for jobs into an "hours played". Or even a "hours played in certain jobs". IE: if you register an account, wait 30 days, and play, you haven't unlocked every job with zero actual playtime. To unlock HoS you'd need a certain number of actual hours on the server, or ideally, a certain number of hours actually playing sec officer/detective. That would drastically reduce the number of unqualified heads whilst not creating any additional paperwork/admin hassle. It would also have other benefits, too. If there was a method for accessing that data, you could make stats on which jobs you play, see who plays certain jobs (which would be great for gathering job-related feedback in coding matters), and look at things like progression (after job X, what is the most likely next job a player will play as?).

Why not simply make it so that only blood, oil, and other player-generated messes count towards the "keep the station clean" text? That way janitors could still care about dirty floors if they want to, but they're not obliged to.

I don't think this goes far enough. IMHO, perma should be remapped completely - the existing layout is terrible for several reasons, of which boredom/SSDing is only one (although, arguably, the most important one). Here is what I made when I spent a few minutes experimenting with remapping perma: Bear in mind, this remap is also terrible - it was just a first attempt as I was screwing around. I mention it only because it illustrates two of the concepts I was thinking about. The primary addition is a mini-botany area, as you suggest. IMHO this alone does not go far enough in terms of enabling fun and giving prisoners something to do other than SSD. I'd add a second arcade machine, and a basketball court. They aren't in this image because I did not add them at the time, but if I were to map this seriously, I'd probably add both. I also experimented with fixing the labor camp - but there were several issues that made me abandon that project. If I was going to do that seriously I think I'd need to move the labor camp to a completely new asteroid which isn't subject to the cave generation algorithm and always has internal air, a non-breakable perimeter, etc. Frankly, I'd like to see the permabrig area's security improved, too. Separate, isolatable cells for each prisoner would be a good start. Possibly a disposals chute to put people in by yourself more easily on low-pop rounds. Currently, many sec dislike using perma because prisoners try to escape, injure each other, or jump guards that come in. Execution is far safer - which encourages taking people out of the round entirely. I even debated adding a sort of auto-borging machine to sec, too, so that (with sec consent) prisoners could self-borg to get back into the round in some fashion. Or, simply a device that, when you enter it, completely kills you and lets you respawn as a different, non-antag crew member. Something that enables you to stay in the round. More fun for the prisoner (they get to stay in the round), more fun for security (antags act like antags as they're not afraid of being caught), and more fun for the server (as antags are more active because they no longer fear one slip will effectively cut them out of the round entirely). When thinking about the balance issues, I debated switching to a series of self-borging syringes (special syringe type, cannot be made, borgs you after a 10min delay, only accessible to HoS/warden but only injectable on yourself). That would allow players that sec thinks should rejoin the round, to be able to rejoin the round, whilst still upholding space law and not allowing "insane" prisoners to become all-access borg terrors. HoS/warden would need to give the prisoner one, and let them use it, then keep them in isolation until it took effect. They still got some punishment but weren't out of the round forever. Perhaps they get a special lawset, too. Anyway, yes to the mini-botany area, yes to the basketball court, yes to the art room if it fits, and I additionally suggest adding better security and/or a self-borging option that can be used with the consent of both the HoS/Warden and the prisoner (and is coded such that it is impossible to use on anyone against their will).

I never said it was a good argument. I am simply trying to be as fair as possible, and when trying to do that, forewarning people helps. It also helps when security ask why I am dragging the genetics guy in cuffs to the HoP line for demotion. "I told him specifically not to give out powers to anyone except sec/command. He decided to start giving random civilians hulk, regardless." works a lot better than "he should have known not to give out hulk". Agreed.

The same is true of several other jobs, including Toxins Researcher, Botanist, most Medbay Chemists, most Engineers, etc. It doesn't make sense to karma-lock one of them, but not the others. Even if it did, I'd say Toxins would be a better candidate for karma-locking than Genetics. Toxins-based self-antagging is far more destructive, and the effects far harder to reverse. People don't generally think "it can break a round" is a good reason to karma-lock a job, especially not a default job. This is correct, though I would add it is also possible for the CMO to not know how to control them and/or the RD to not give a damn. Frequently, RDs have a lot to keep tabs on and thus tend not to give a damn about most things until they become a problem. When I play RD, and I trust sec, I will often give the HoS a Rapid Syringe Gun loaded with mutadone (and possibly the bar drink neurotoxin). A single shot of this strips their powers (and, if containing NT, also immobilizes them so they can be arrested). This gift is accompanied by a "by the way, you have standing permission from me to use this on anyone you see abusing genetic powers. If they're a geneticist, please let me know as well because I will probably want them demoted". I realize that isn't strictly necessary, but sometimes it helps. As RD, it really helps to walk into genetics early on, give them a medibot (for the toxins) and make it clear that power distribution is only authorized for sec/command. That way they have no grounds for "you never told me" complaints later if unauthorized power distribution results in a syringe to the face and a one-way-trip to the HoP line.

451. Toy facehuggers being toys is not an excuse to place them everywhere, including your superior officer's underwear drawer. 452. "Jaunt tunnels" are not a valid excuse to be in your superior officer's bathroom, either. 453. Or the Captain's bathroom. 454. Or ANY bathroom. 455. This goes double with bathrooms on syndicate bases. 456. When the RD asks "how would you deal with xenos on the bridge?", the answer I give must not reference bags of holding. 457. When the CMO asks "what is the OD threshold for omnizine?" I must not make up a number because I don't know what an "OD threshold" is. 458. Nor may I answer "Over 9000". 459. When the HoS asks "is this complaint with space law?", the answer I give must not include the phrase "space law is only a guideline". 460. Not may I tell him to ask the clown. 461. Or the mime. 462. Or anyone else except the Captain or magistrate. 463. Xenomorphs, vampires, changelings, syndicate agents and horrific blob monsters are still not people, but are still included in "anyone else". 464. When the HoP asks "is it OK to give the clown all access if he has a really good reason?" I am NOT to tell him to "use your best judgement". 465. Nor am I allowed to tell him to "Ask Ian". 466. I am also not allowed to tell the HoP that Ian can man his desk for him. 467. Nor am I allowed to tell him that Ian can do his entire job for him. 468. Even if this is true. 469. ESPECIALLY if this is true. 470. When the captain asks "why are my heads so incompetent?" I am not to laugh maniacially. 471. When the NT rep faxes in a complaint about an incompetent command staff, I am to treat this as an actual complaint, not an excuse to activate all the monitors and grab popcorn. 472. I am not allowed a singularity as a pet. 473. Even if it is contained. 474. Even if it is only stage 1 "right now". 475. Even if I have a bag of holding on standby. 476. ESPECIALLY if I have a bag of holding on standby. 477. I am not allowed to have any bags of holding. 478. I am not allowed to use other peoples' bags of holding to breed singularities to give to other people as pets. 479. Even if they think it is a good idea. 480. Especially if they think it is a good idea. 481. If the singularity in engineering dies, I am not allowed to send the Cyberiad a replacement on the transfer shuttle. 482. I am no longer allowed to send singularities, replacement or otherwise, anywhere. 483. I am not allowed to intentionally give the CE incorrect information about the color of the station's power wire "because it would be hilarious". 484. Nor because he still owes me a pizza. 485. Or indeed, for any reason at all. 486. When the CMO complains that they have run out of blood, I am to check that the medbay floor is not covered in red writing before sending more. 487. When the CMO complains that they have run out of blood, and that they have "even exhausted the monkeys", I am not to send them any more blood packs. 488. I am not to open any bluespace portals from CC to the Cyberiad. 489. Doubly so at the request of wizards. 490. I am to tell R&D how I open some bluespace portals. 491. I am NOT to tell R&D how I open any more bluespace portals. 492. All heads of staff gathering in the Cyberiad briefing room is not cause to send "By your powers combine!" as a classified message. 493. Or any other kind of message. 494. Nor is any other situation grounds for sending that phrase. 495. I am a commms officer, not a narrator. 496. In particular, I am not the narrator from any kind of parable. 497. Even if a crew member's name is Stanley. 498. Even if Engineering is creating lines of golden floor tiles. 499. Even if R&D has released unstable bluespace anomalies that warp time and/or space. 500. Even if I *am* an unstable bluespace anomaly. 501. Even if the crew desires freedom, but it is impossible. 502. No matter what. 503. And even when I am not the narrator, it is incorrect to tell crew venturing into disposals that "you'll always come back to life". 504. Science is not a competition to create the deadlist substance, creature, or anomaly, and it is wrong to pretend that it is. 505. Or to offer incentives for doing so, especialy to the research director and plasma researchers. 506. Doing the same for syndicate agents is also impermissible. 507. Even as a delaying tactic while an ERT is summoned. 508. Tajarans are not an endangered species, the toxins does not house baby ones in cardboard boxes, and it is wrong to pretend that it does. 509. Especially to AIs. 510. Even more especially to AIs with laws about feline supremacy and/or animal testing. 511. Vulpkanins are not capable of "puppy eyes" and "they used puppy eyes on me" is a racist statement, not an excuse for my arming traitorous civilians. 512. Talking in 'beep' and 'boop' sounds does not make me comprensible to IPCs. 513. Talking in 'yips', 'yaps', and 'rawrs' does not make me comprehensible to Vulpkanins. 514. I am not to attempt to speak any language I do not know. 515. I only know English. 516. And I am not an expert at it. 517. "But _____ has one" is not a valid excuse for me to have anything. 518. This goes double if _____ is a superior officer. 519. And triple if ____ works in science, engineering, or medical. 520. And quadruple if they are frantically running away from it at the time of my statement. 521. Borgs are valued synthetic crew, not "toasters". 522. Even if they are service borgs. 522. Even if they are service borgs that make toast. 523. I am not to keep repeating the word "toaster" around service borgs to see if they react. 524. Nor am I to keep repeating "toast" in the bar until everyone is passed out drunk. 525. If I do this in the kitchen, any resulting food is coming out of my paycheck. 526. After the incident in engineering, that is coming out of my paycheck FOREVER. 527. ERTs are not "Toast Dispensation Units". 528. I am to stop using the word "toast", before my superior officer deems my ass, it.

Thanks! The clicking and clipping issues are why I made the queen normal sized. I saw those same issues during playtesting, and I agree they were very annoying. They are also part of the reason I updated queens/empresses with projectile spit attacks. They don't need to be accurate - they just have to click in the target's direction, and so long as the spit passes through their tile, it hits them. Queens/empresses should always have a brood of other spiders to defend them, so they shouldn't be reliant on accurate clicking in combat. If they're having to fight personally, their hive is probably already wrecked or at least in serious trouble. The empress I only made 2x2 (the size of an alien queen, not the silly size of an alien empress) because: She's an adminspawn-only, primarily RP character, so she is probably the least reliant on combat effectiveness of all spiders. She can spawn queens that make entire nests to defend her. She doesn't care about combat effectiveness, and even when she does, she has projectile spit attack, regeneration, and a huge health pool. I felt like the primary purpose of the empress is just like the purpose of an alien empress - to be an interesting RP character and sow terror amongst the crew. Being big really helps her inspire fear amongst some players. Do you think the big alien sprites work? If so, similar-sized sprites should work for the terror spider empress. If not, I'll certainly consider changing her sprite size. Thank you for making these. They're neat. Better than anything I could make. I assume 1st is purple, 3rd is red. I am guessing 4 is white or gray, and 5 is white or black? Not sure which one 2 is aimed at. What I like about them: I very much like the fact they all have 4 legs on each side. It always bothered me to see 'spiders' with the wrong number of legs. I like the fangs, too. They look much more substantial. I like how the front/back views account for different perspective. I like how the colors are blended into the legs. What I think could be improved: Colors. 2 does not look fearsome due to that yellow/blue. 4 uses both white and green, which is risky as I don't want people to confuse the white and green types. 5 uses both black and white, but doesn't look clearly like a black type, a white type, or a gray type. I was thinking of reserving blue for the queen/empress. Since the empress is just a more aged and powerful queen, it makes sense for them to share a color (though the empress' design would look fiercer). I'm not against having a yellow spider - it would always be good to have a sprite on hand in case I introduce a new type, and yellow is one of the few so-far-unused colors I think would work well. I don't think I'll be able to use a yellow/blue combination spider, though. Spiky bits on their backs. The spikes on the red one's back look good, and make sense (it is a heavily armored melee type, so they might help discourage melee attacks). White/black are hit-and-run types, though, so they'd benefit more from long fangs, mobility, etc than spikes on their backs. Every type has its own AI and own style, so ideally sprites would reflect how they actually operate. E.g. white type might have muscular legs for pouncing, grey type might be lower to the ground to more easily fit in vents, red would look armored, queen would have a visible egg sac, black would have the black widow hourglass symbol on it, etc. Eyes. Possibly the only good thing about my codersprites is their eyes. They were big and glowing, which made them scary. They also often told you the type (red eyes = red type, purple eyes = purple type, etc) - even visible when the spiders were viewed from the side. Having obvious eyes that tell you the spider's type from all angles, and improve the fear factor, isn't strictly necessary, but it does help. Legs. Red/purple/white would benefit from fuzzy tarantula legs. I tried to do this myself but I could never get it looking good. If it is possible though, I think it would look awesome. Green/gray would benefit from spindly legs. Black would benefit from legs that get thinner further away from the spider's body, just as the real-life black widow has.

Disarm is already OP. You can win a lot of fights by shoving someone, taking their weapon, and shooting/whacking them with it. It doesn't matter if they're a sec officer with a supposedly good energy gun, a wizard of unfathomable power, etc. You can still run up to them, and probably get that weapon out of their hands with a disarm if you really try. Heck, melee in general is OP. In real life, shoot someone once and they are down, not for a few seconds, but for hours. Any kind of proper weapon in SS13 is ridiculously weak by comparison - which makes melee moves like disarm ridiculously powerful compared to what you'd expect. Sure, design for fun, but at what point does it just become silly? IMHO, different flavor text for disarming different areas is fine, but anything that makes disarm more powerful is just pushing us further towards sillyville.

Thanks! I don't need em this week. I realize it will take some time to make all of these sprites. Notes you might find useful: The current sprites I am using are in: https://github.com/Kyep/Paradise/blob/1 ... animal.dmi I've put placeholder sprites for the empress in https://github.com/Kyep/Paradise/blob/1 ... rlarge.dmi - they're essentially stick figures, but the size of the icons might be useful to know. All of the spiders have 'dead' images in addition to their 4 direction sprites. However, the 'dead' images I am using right now are simply the sprite where they face towards the camera, flipped upside down. Ideally they'd have death sprites that look more like a killed alien queen - ie: the creature on its side, blood everywhere. That's very much a nice-to-have, though. Here are some reference images that might help: Red: This, but more red: Even better if it had fangs like this: Gray: This scary gray one: Maybe a little lower to the ground, so it looks stealthy, like this: Green: Like this, but green: Purple Black White Just wish the fangs were a different color, say red, so they stood out more. Queen I like the basic model of the don't starve queen: I just wish it was scarier: Mother One big spider with many little ones on its back: Empress Spiders + Lovecraft:

You might want to put a sprite request in the Graphics subforum Created: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7169

I'm developing some really awesome new spiders: Terror Spiders. Changelog, etc: http://nanotrasen.se/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9b01b6e71e Problem is, although I have had a lot of success writing their AI, making them playable, etc, I'm terrible at spriting. Anyone interested in making sprites for them? Here are the types: red - a slow-moving armored juggernaut of a spider, red tarantula look would be great gray - a stealthy, hard-to see spider, like the alien hunter. Often hides in vents. Could be made visually smaller than the others. green - a nurse-like spider that lays eggs on bodies. Graphically, having an egg sac would be great. white - an intelligent, parasite-carrying hit-and-run spider. It should look like a white, fluffy tarantula black - a 'poison them and run' spider, it looks like a giant black widow purple - an elite guard spider for queens' nests, it tries to pounce on and stun intruders in the nest queen - an egg-laying spider, with enormous egg sac and extremely tough carapace armor mother - a fictional mother wolf spider that carries many young on its back - big but not especially threatening looking, except for its back empress - a large-size (64x64 sprite) extremely fearsome ruler spider, imagine the ruler of a planet full of lovecraftian spider nightmares And the objects: spider carapace body armor spider fang weapon spider gland object Here are some of the sprites I am using now: (they are, from left to right: red, black, green, white, purple, gray, queen. Empress is not shown because I'm currently using stick-figure art for her) Yes, they're terrible palette swaps of the default spiders. I'd like sprites that make each class look more unique - not just palette swaps.

New update, with detailed changelog: https://github.com/Kyep/Paradise/commit ... 3613b99c03 This adds a ton of things, including empresses, wolf mother spiders, door opening, proper camera disabling, a large AI code refactor, major bug fixes, etc. To see all code changes from base: https://github.com/Kyep/Paradise/compar ... ep:spiders Still really need help from a spriter.

Yes. Definitely add camera assemblies to the engivend if not giving eng an autolathe. They're so useful, they give eng something to do on slow rounds, and it just seems nuts that eng has no supply of them itself.

You're welcome to download a copy of my branch and test it locally. It compiles. Sprites are codersprites though The last update added two significant rewards for killing terror spiders: their fangs, and their silk. Their fangs are a robust melee weapon. Even more so if you get fangs from a red terror. Their silk is basically cable coil, which you can use for wiring, or make cable restraints from. I have several other ideas I'm considering in terms of potential drops from these spiders: Spider skins (from slain spiders, or simply from spiders who molt and shed their skin as they age). These can be worn on the torso as armor, and may make spiders not target you. Spider feet. Can be worn as shoes, rendering you immune to spider webs. Might also be noslip. (Hey, spiders can't wallclimb, so at least they're noslip) Spider eyeball. A rare upgrade that, with a bit of dark science could potentially be used to give you permanent thermal vision. Main issue is sprites, again. I'm trying to make these spiders fearsome, but have good rewards if you do kill them. I want naive crew to be tempted to their doom, but capable monster hunters to have useful trophies for their feats. I may end up binding rewards to types, such that you have to kill multiple types to collect all the rewards. The other major features on my list are potential new spider classes: T1 Spitter Class: weak spider that spits hallucinogenic toxins from range T2 Hairy Monster Class: a tarantula with urticating hair attack that has nasty effects. T3 Empress Class: an enormous (alien empress size) class which is adminspawn-only and used to either teach queens, or for "lloth-comes-to-town" style RP events. T3 Mother Wolf Class: weak, but spawns lots of spiderlings on death. Just watch this video and multiply all the spiders up to giant-spider size.... T1 Stalker Class: sees you, hides, stalks you via vents, and pops up later to attack you when you least expect it. Fear the night! T1-2 Webmaster Class: creates lots of webs, then hides in them. Reappears with murder on its mind once you're foolish enough to get stuck in its webs. Of these, I'm most likely to make the Wolf spider - probably re-using the queen sprites. It would be neat if not all queens were the same. Lastly, I'm considering making an away mission based on somewhere the spiders have infested. Either the lab they were created in, or perhaps an NT outpost that fell to their wrath. If I do make this, it is not going to be the sort of easily farmed away mission that one scientist solos with autolathe gear. This is going to be like Stargate SG-1 in that your away teams will get themselves into serious trouble. Placement will be randomized, traps will be laid, you will need to keep your wits and supplies about you to survive. If you aggro their nest, the spiders might decide to invade the Cyberiad in return...

Compare the stats for Araneus: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradis ... ate/pet.dm With the stats for a standard guard spider: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradis ... _spider.dm Stuff I notice: Araneus has 250 maxhealth to the guard spider's 200, but they both have 200 'health' on spawn. Araneus has the same (15-20) melee damage as a regular guard spider Araneus has 8 turns_per_move instead of 5, making him slightly slower Araneus has the default move_to_delay, instead of the 6 the guard spider gets Araneus does not get see_in_dark (nightvision), or speak_chance (chittering behavior) as the hostile spider does If I'm reading this right, Araneus is a slightly slower but tougher version of the guard spider? How could we change him? Make him obey commands like sit, stay, follow, attack, etc. Sure, this is possible with code, but I feel like when HoSes often can't handle Araneus even being around without beating him (and then getting robusted by him), having a complex command system is just going to invite further fuckups by HoSes. On the other hand, if anyone is going to have the equivalent of a trained german shepherd, it would be the HoS. Do we think that the HoS having a combat-capable pet would be awesome, or an awesome trainwreck? Or both? I am not sure. Make him attack wanted people. Personally, I'd favor this over an 'attack my target' type thing. Attack my target, especially if it requires some special cue, like voice, is harder to code, harder to use, and more prone to misuse. For targeting, I'd give him a rule that he attacks only people who are wanted AND not cuffed AND not wearing security gear, AND his attack isn't lethal. Give him something unique on his sprite. Personally, I'd say give him a sec hud visible on his sprite. Or red bands on his legs. Either would communicate he's a security pet. Make him defend the HoS if the HoS is attacked. There are two issues with this: 1) I'm not sure how it is codable, and 2) it would encourage the HoS to take Araneus everywhere with him, which would lead to an entirely new set of issues (e.g: random people attack araneus, and....) Changing his poison. He has no poison, he's a modified guard spider. They don't do poison damage. Test it (on a private instance) if you don't believe us. Make his poison do stamina damage. Weird, for a poison. Also, doesn't fit his base type. Also, doesn't protect him that well. Could easily end up in an endless loop of biting someone every time they get up. Webbing them down would be safer and fairer. Maybe stamina damage until they have no stamina, then "web"? Laser pointer that makes him hostile to whatever it is used on. This is actually doable (I could script this, actually)... but I dunno if it would work well. Bluntly, I don't think it would. There's another idea nobody has thought of... make him player-controllable, just like the other head pets are. Sure, he'd be the only combat-capable pet, but he'd still be dependent on his owner for everything, due to no door access, etc. I've actually been writing a fair bit of new ai for my own terror spiders lately, so if people are really interested in making Araneus a nonlethal spider that stuns/disarms and webs criminals, I could code it.

I'm neutral on this. Yes, it seems silly that the Eng department doesn't get an autolathe. You'd think they'd need one most. On the other hand, Cargo already tends to be low traffic, and adding another place to get the stuff you usually ask them for further reduces their reason to exist. That's not necessarily a bad thing (quite a few QMs seem to delight in wasting your time with paperwork even for the most trivial and harmless of requests). Still, a worthy consideration.

For the moment I've made them check for syndicate and alien jobbans. IE: anyone jobbanned from either of those won't be able to play as these. Fixed. The brain damage thing was part of an RP effort of mine to make their effects more similar to real life black widow venom. After playtesting it, I did not like the results, so I ended up changing it today to remove the brain damage completely. (and update the out-of-date comments) I may change it further. New update (changelog included, though it doesn't mention the BW venom changes): https://github.com/Kyep/Paradise/commit ... 55d43a2b89

Both greens and queens will automatically create sticky webs on the floor. These have a decent chance of slowing people down, too. They won't increase the spider's movement speed, though, or give stealth. Grays will use stealth - they will hide in vents and ambush anyone who approaches the vent. They're invisible until they're about to attack. They won't make noise or give away their presence until they're almost on top of their prey. The issue with the stealth/invisibility is that it requires lots of playtesting/balance, especially if I want to let players control this spider class. So, I'm trying to avoid giving all the terror spiders this ambush/stealth ability. That said, all of them can ventcrawl. Yes, when player controlled, this lets them sneak up on people, pick targets, etc. A good player who is controlling a poison-based attack spider (aka: it doesn't stick around, it bites you, injects poison, and leaves) will be truly terrifying as it hops in and out of vents, attacking targets of opportunity.

Here's the code thus far: https://github.com/Kyep/Paradise/tree/spiders To look at the changes from base: https://github.com/Kyep/Paradise/compar ... ep:spiders Please note that none of this code is final - there are many things I still want to change/add. I am definitely looking for people to help playtest it with me, though. Ideally I'd like to get these spiders into a state where I could submit a PR for them and get them added. BUT I realize that doing that will require: 1) Finalizing the design of the different spider classes and how they interact 2) Doing at least one, if not two, balance passes on everything (requires playtesting everything again) 3) Adding some specific anti-abuse features, like checking ghosts to make sure they're not antagbanned before allowing them to control a spider 4) Doing code cleanup - I realize there are places where it needs to be improved, obsolete stuff removed, etc - this is the dev branch 5) Getting an actual spriter to make sprites for them 6) Probably several more things I discover along the way.

I don't do it. Nor did I say it is the best option. My point was simply that it isn't the only option. You say yourself "when cloning/transplanting is an option", implying that it isn't the only option. Talk of borging is a distraction, though. Heck, even talk of humanized monkeys in general is a distraction. It does not matter in the "should genetics be reclassified as a non-joint subdepartment of science" question. R&D, robo, etc already provide services to the station at large. I see absolutely no reason why genetics shouldn't be a sub-department of science that provides services (such as humanized monkeys) just as R&D, robo, etc do. IMHO, the fact that people are seizing on humanized monkeys as "the" important thing genetics can do, suggests there really is no good reason why genetics is a joint department with medbay. That's a very weak reason to be the go-to defense of the status quo. On the contrary "genetics spends >95% of its time doing genetic research, thus they belong in the research department, just like the people doing R&D, chem research, xenobio research, etc" is a much stronger argument, because it is based on what they spend most of their time doing. Every job has one or two things they spend the majority of their time on, and a huge list of things they do sometimes. Jobs should be classified based on what they spend the majority of their time on - not what they might do sometimes. No matter how important the "sometimes" stuff is. A botanist can sometimes save the station from a blob single-handedly. Important? Sure. Lifesaving? Sure. But less-common stuff like that doesn't define their job. Again, that's a terrible reason for it to be part of medical. Xenobio, scichem, etc usually have zero impact on the rest of science, but often impact on medical (people die in accidents). Yet, they're properly classified as part of science, because their job is research. Genetics should be exactly the same. On the flipside, station having air, power, etc make a huge impact on medical - but nobody thinks medical should get control of the engine, atmos, etc. To take an example of another department: everyone depends on security to be able to do their jobs safely, but nobody thinks that security should be part of every other department. Robotics, R&D, etc field far more than 6 requests a shift, while remaining firmly part of science. I see no reason why genetics should not be the same way. Actually, the burden on genetics would be less in this setup than R&D/robo already have, because genetics' desk would open just to medbay, thus they would take only requests from people in medbay, whereas anyone at all can walk up to the publicly-accessible R&D or robo desks.

Genetics researchers do a lot more genetics research than they do preparing humanized monkeys. Suggesting that genetics should be under the CMO is like suggesting that engineers should report to the HoS because they kill carp with welders, or that R&D should report to the barman because they're sometimes called on to install arcade games in the bar. Yes, it is something they do sometimes, and yes, it is helpful, but it is NOT their primary job function and they spend a tiny amount of time doing it compared to their actual job (genetics research). Sub-departments should not be assigned based on what they spend a tiny percentage of their time doing - they should be assigned based on what they spend the majority, in this case the vast majority, of their time doing. For genetics, that means they should be a sub-department of science, because they spend the vast, vast majority of their time doing genetic research. Also, as to the point that creating humanized monkeys is "required" - it isn't. Other options (e.g: borging) exist. Even if it was required, medbay needs power, air, etc, but nobody is suggesting making engine setup, atmos, etc fall under the CMO. Hell, everyone requires a safe station to function well, but nobody is suggesting giving other departments control of security. Clearly, X being "required" for a department to function well doesn't justify giving control of that thing to that department. There's a huge difference between orders and requests. R&D, robotics, cargo, etc, get requests from all departments, but they get orders from the RD. The fact that genetics gets some requests from medbay is not significant in determining who they should report to. If it was, then cargo would end up reporting to every other head of staff. There's also the matter of the relative importance of orders. RD might only give a single order "don't distribute powers", but that single order is round-altering. Whether you fix someone's UI or not, sure, probably matters to them, but to other people? Not really. The way I see it: 95%+ of geneticist time revolves around genetic research. They are a sub-department almost entirely dedicated to research. Hence, they belong in the research department, along with the other kinds of sub-departments dedicated to research, like xenobio research, chem research, R&D, etc. Of course, they can and should still provide services to the station at large, just as robo, R&D, etc, do. They just belong in the research department - because research is what they do. If looking to improve medbay, a better starting point would be fixing virology (which is obsolete due to radium) and psychology (which is sidelined).

Avast mateys! Replyzilla has been sighted off the port bow! Batten down the hatches! The wave of words approaches fast! Nay. Hell no. "Hell No" plus "they should be entirely a sub-department of science, with no medical role or access, just a window/desk thing in their wall so they can service requests from medical". Better arguments: Over 95% of their time is spent doing genetic research. They do little if any cloning in a typical round. Giving a clean SE is a 5-second operation that takes less time than a R&D scientist printing someone a console screen from the autolathe. Genetics is a "medical" department in name only. The idea that they're equally split between science and medical is a sham. They're not. They're pretty much entirely a sub-department of science already - we just pretend otherwise for some reason. Doctors are often bored. I've seen entire rounds with almost nobody entering medical. Frankly, doctors could use more to do in most rounds. The whole multiple bosses idea just doesn't work in practice. The CMO/RD disagree at times. It would be better if one person (RD) was in charge, and there was clear accountability. MedChemists should just get a blood pack in their lab by default. It is a basic reagent they need for core healing chems. Failing that, at least give them one of the smaller monkey cubes that can be expanded into a single monkey. The medical chemistry lab isn't mapped very well - it is too small, and the item placement is such that the fuel tank is always getting knocked out of position. Really, medbay chemistry needs a remap. None of this is relevant to the question of whether genetics remains in medbay, or actually gets recognized as the sub-department of science that it is. "Sort of relate to medical somehow" is not a good justification for something being a sub-department of medical. Engineering fixing doors "sort of relates to security somehow", but nobody is arguing for engineering to be a joint job with security. Mutadone is superior to clean SEs in treating genetic issues. It is fast and easy to make, pills of it are stackable and can be put in pill boxes, you can produce 12+ pills of it at once, rather than clean SEs one at a time on a delay. Even if for some reason, people still want SEs from genetics, the best way to solve that is to have a window in the wall. Not keeping genetics as part of medical in any way. I fail to see why medbay should be treated differently than every other department. If there's a security emergency, sec can, should and sometimes even *gasp* does ask for volunteers to fill out the ranks so they can deal with it. If nobody is starting the engine, command asks for volunteers with eng skills to get it done. If lots of people need medical treatment, why does nobody ask for volunteer triage docs at medbay? "Oh gosh it would could helpful in a major emergency" is not necessarily a good reason for medical to operate that way all the time. Mutadone should fix all blocks. Its entire purpose is to be the drug that fixes mutations. Humanized monkeys, ok, that's a valuable service that genetics can provide, but being able to provide a service to a department is not necessarily a good reason to be part of that department when 95% of your time is spent doing research completely unrelated to that department. Most rounds nobody even asks genetics for this, and even when they do its simple for genetics to provide one over a counter. Genetecists powergaming isn't an argument for them to be part of medical - even if it has effects on medical. ANYONE hurting anyone else, powergaming or not, regardless of department, is going to result in the injured person probably ending up in medical - that's almost universally the case. Saying that "well, medical is in charge of healing, so it should also have jurisdiction over genetics, since genetics can make things which harm" is total nonsense - because the same argument could be applied to everything from engineering's welders to security's guns. "Sorry, prisoner processing in sec should be part of medical because people can get hurt there and we have to deal with it" sounds ridiculous, and it is just as ridiculous when applied to genetics. When I am RD, I will make a mutadone RSG for the HoS and specifically state over command that I am OK with the demotion/RSGing of any genetecist who abuses their powers, including handing them out willy-nilly. If the CMO asks me "can we please demote this genetecist, he took all the toxin kits and refuses to return them" then I will very likely agree. Genes should know that they need to ask robo for a medibot to keep them healthy. There is no reason to deplete finite resources when you can instead simply tap infinite resources like medibots. Also, disobeying your head is not something crew should be doing without a very good reason, especially when the head is telling them to stop doing something that might negatively impact other crew. Having genetics be confined to medical is a terrible idea - the claim they're a "joint department" with science is already a blatent lie given that they spent >95% of their time doing science stuff unrelated to medical. No, genetic research is NOT medbay's area, any more then R&D research, chem research, xenobio research, or any other kind of research is medbay's area. All those kinds of research, genetic research included, belong in science, the "research department". I would definitely support the window, however. The wall makes it unnecessarily difficult for medical staff to ask them for things when needed. Every other service-offering sub-department of science has an outward-facing desk (robo, R&D) and I don't see why genetics should be any different. There is indeed no good reason why genetics straddles two departments, and it does indeed create a lack of accountability. However, taking an existing lie (that genetics is a 50/50 medical/science department, which it blatently isn't) and doubling it (by making genetics medical-only) doesn't fix anything, it just results in a bigger lie. I don't think so. It would have been easier to just give the RD access to medbay than reclassify a whole sub-department for that reason. Also, RDs can get into morgue (copied from robotics access). They might be able to get fully into medbay from that alone. Plus, they'll generally be let in whenever they ask to upgrade stuff. Overall, this is a terrible excuse. Incidentally, I would think that every CMO out there would WANT the RD to have basic medbay access, since medbay benefits so hugely from the upgrades that typically the RD provides. Why would you want to keep the guy who upgrades all of your critical equipment, out of your department? Makes no sense. When's the last time a CMO had to ask the RD to leave their department because they were messing up stuff? I can't remember that ever happening. Genetics having some responsibility to medical does not, in any way, constitute a good reason for having them be a sub-department of medical. R&D is expected to make items for every department. They're not a joint department with everything else. Robotics is expected to make cleanerbots, secbots, medibots, and all kinds of mechs, yet they're not a joint department either. Cargo is responsible to every other department that exists, because all the stuff they do is in service to another department - yet NOBODY has ever argued that cargo should be shared with any other department. There is absolutely no reason that genetics couldn't be a science-only job which has a window+desk facing into the room where the cloner is currently. That way people can still ask them for stuff if they want, but this whole split-department nonsense goes away. Toxins doesn't effect the rest of science, except when it screws up. Scichem doesn't effect the rest of science, except when it screws up. Xenobio doesn't effect the rest of science, except when it screws up. Genetics doesn't effect the rest of science, except when it screws up. The first three are strictly sub-departments of science. The fourth one is a joint sub-department. Clearly, the fact that a sub-department is largely left to do its own thing isn't the deciding factor with regards to what is, and what is not, strictly a sub-department of science. What is? Whether that sub-department spends its time doing *research*. Genetics spends >95% of its time doing research. Therefore, by the criteria in actual usage, it should be a sub-department of science. Whether it provides things to other departments is irrelevant. As to "helps medbay a ton", you could make that argument about anything. Security shooting spiders with eguns "helps medbay a ton". Cargo ordering medical supplies "helps medbay a ton". Engineering keeping the tesla contained "helps medbay a ton". This argument doesn't work for genetics - because it doesn't work for anything else either. If they wanted to treat people, why wouldn't they play doctor instead? Doctors, like geneticists, can clone, but they can also treat a bunch of other stuff. If they wanted to treat patients, it would be more logical for them to just select doctor rather than geneticist. The fact they're picking geneticist should be treated as evidence they prefer doing genetic research, over treating patients, and expecting them to behave otherwise is not realistic, especially with the wall between them and the rest of medbay. Who cares if they get TK or hulk, so long as they use it responsibly? I've seen many times that hulk was used to stop a malf AI, for example. If on the other hand, someone is misusing hulk/TK, then I don't care whether they've been treating patients too, or not. If they abuse hulk/TK they should be demoted out of genetics, and shot with a mutadone SG/RSG for good measure. Perhaps the solution there is simple: make it abundantly clear to geneticists that if they act like jerks with their powers, they will not only be stripped of them, they will be demoted out of genetics entirely. This whole debate isn't even about genetics. Not really. This debate is about one thing: the fact that some players consider science OP, or at least OP relative to medical. To this, I would say: Yes, science is OP compared to medical. Part of that is that medical is the department in charge of healing people, and science is the department in charge of making dangerous and often explosive things. To expect them to be equal, power-wise, is just silly! It would be like comparing medical to security, and complaining that security gets guns and medical doesn't. It is like choosing to work as a doctor rather than an explosives researcher - then complaining that you don't get access to explosives. No, it isn't even like that, it is that. That said, assuming you want to reduce that power disparity, there are ways of doing it without being blatently illogical by trying to make genetics a sub-department of medical when there's no good reason it is anything but a science sub-department to begin with. There are actually several sub-departments of medical that are completely broken and/or underused to begin with, and investing effort into those departments would go a long way towards addressing the disparity, whilst at the same time improving jobs that right now, are not that fun to play. For example, virology is hopelessly broken right now. Radium obsoletes their entire job. Fix that - and make the virologist capable of producing really powerful viruses. Psychology is never played, despite the fact it should have the power to have *anyone* detained for evaluation (with CMO approval), and if they prove unstable, demoted. This includes heads, even the captain. Give people a reason to play psych - and make sure they know they can actually do something. Given the amount of crazy people in the average round, this is a very, very powerful ability. The CMO, in principle, can decide who is cloned and who isn't. This is godly powerful if they start to decide "no, that person is not worth cloning". CMOs have decided the course of rounds many times by simply refusing to clone murderers. Science may be able to kill you, but it takes a CMO, most of the time, to make you permanently dead by labelling your body "DO NOT CLONE". On a related note, I'm very surprised by medical players wishing science had less ability to hurt people and make things go boom. Much as I may curse scientist stupidity when I play medbay, they provide many of the injuries that give me something to do, and nothing is less fun than boredom, or, worst of all, feeling like you just aren't necessary. On another note, I think we're neglecting perhaps the most important factor here: fun. If science is seen as "the fun department" because you get to play with toys, then perhaps we should ask "what can we give other departments that would qualify as a fun toy?" I'd like to see the CE get an advanced RCD, for example, for this reason. Nerfing science to remove fun doesn't magically make the other departments more fun. It just means everyone has less fun, together. That isn't progress.

Because there is little that requires radio communication amongst the service-department staff. Kitchen and bar might want to co-operate, but they're next to each other. Kitchen and botany need to co-operate, but they're next to each other too.

Re: faxes If replying to faxes is a pain for admins to do, have you considered options that might reduce the effort required? If composing a fax is a lot of effort, perhaps just send that two-sentence message direct to their headset. Avoids the lengthy time period spent messing with formatting and codes. If determined to use a fax, why not make the standard fax reply screen/form auto-populate a standard fax template, so you can do basic faxes without having to dig up the formatting instructions each time? Why not have one-click-standard-reply options for the more common fax responses? "Your station is already equipped with the crew and resources to handle this. Please use them to resolve the issue", could be one. "We will only declare gamma or send ERT for xenos if we believe there to be a serious xeno infestation - one or two of them does not count" could be another. "IAAs should only fax CC as a last resort, in cases where the chain of command on the station has proven they are unable or unwilling to deal with a major problem. Please work with them before resorting to filing a complaint with CC." could be useful too. This type of message would clearly set expectations without being super generic (as "follow SOP" is), and would still be faster to send than typing out replies manually as happens now. Even better would be some guidance being placed on the comms console / fax machines as to what is, and what is not, a valid reason to message/fax CC. Heck, putting some on the keycard auth device, such that it appears to anyone trying to call an ERT, could be useful too. This would require little more than displaying some text in the UI, and it could potentially reduce silly faxes/requests a fair bit.

The laser cannon is a good weapon if (A) you have a bag of holding, and thus can carry it safely, and (B) you have access to rechargers and © you're going after a non-slime monster, which requires lethal damage, and has to take time to break through windows to get to you. If (A) or (B) is false, an AEG is probably better, because it self-recharges. If © is false, because you're going after crew, a stun revolver is probably better. If © is false, because you're going after something that will not be stupid enough to stand behind glass, but can still easily kill you if it closes the distance (like a player-controlled xeno), then it is time to adapt. Most of the omnizine I get comes from warm donk pockets, not mechs. I pretty much never ask science for an ody as medbay chemist. I find I never need to. Most rounds, medbay sees little use and it is rare that I will need more than that quantity of omnizine. I would like it if all jobs had job objectives like that. I strongly disagree. This attitude really makes my blood boil. Faxing CC about an emergency only to have it ignored because the message was formatted poorly is rather like calling 911 only to have your call ignored because the operator doesn't like your accent, or feels you're talking too quickly. My gut reaction to either situation is: "WTF are you thinking?". If you can't read what they're saying at all, just say "Sorry, we could not understand that, please re-fax with more clarity". Once sentence! Takes a few seconds to type. If you can, but just can't be bothered because the formatting makes it hard, that's bad, but at least you could adminpm the sender and say "Sorry, too busy right now dealing with stuff to try to decipher that - when faxing CC it is best to be clear, concise, to the point, and finish with a clear request. Try again if you like.". If you can read it, even understand it, but choose to ignore it just because you happen to not like the formatting... that just makes me furious. Have you ever seen SOS calls in real emergencies? Real emergency distress calls are not well-formatted essays. Grammar is ignored completely in the interests of efficiency. They sure as fuck don't have official stamps and time spent aligning text in margins or applying corporate logos. They are short, brutal messages consisting of key codewords, like "fire at 11th and 4th, 3 down, need assistance" or "active gunman at hallwood, send swat". I would argue the exact opposite: if you get a well-formatted message, that's actually evidence it is NOT a real emergency. Real emergencies aren't things people send calm, well-written faxes about. Real emergencies produce short, abrupt SOS messages. If the IAA asks you to sentence someone for hitting someone else with a crowbar, and you ignore it, they'll probably do it again. If you reply "No. The fax machine is not a toy, and is to be used only for SERIOUS issues. Someone being hit with a crowbar is not remotely serious enough to fax us over." then they might actually learn something and you just might have less shitty faxes to read in future. Also, fewer IAAs will get disgruntled over being "ignored" because although you did not give them what you wanted, at least you proved you bothered to read and reply to their communication. If the captain says "we have xenos", I would *assume* he's asking for either an ERT, or a code gamma. Those are the standard response options a captain might expect. Actually, in that situation, I'd assume he's asking for gamma, because he could have requested an ERT with the swiper. If he's messaging/faxing instead, either most of the command crew is dead and he can't use the swiper, he specifically wants gamma not ERT, or he's just panicing in what he considers an emergency and it might just be one guy in a friggin' xeno suit. A good reply, assuming you planned to send no help might be: "If they start to overrun the station, request gamma or an ERT. Otherwise, we assume your trained sec force can handle it once you verify the threat and equip them with armory weapons" That sort of response takes 20 seconds to type, rebukes him for sending a useless message, trains him if he's clueless, and sets the standards for when he should be contacting you. In two sentences, it does a heck of a lot to ensure better conduct from him and less stupid messages for you. I would call that a "teachable moment" you can reap rewards from later - if you use it. No, you're not obliged to teach people, but it's very, very helpful if you do, both for you, and for them. EVERYONE panics at some point during an emergency. Everyone is new at some point. Not everyone is used to Josiah Young running around in a frigging xeno suit every single round and tame xenos in xenobio. Some people genuinely do flip out when they see alieums or a blob in their spessmen game. Standard admin procedure when dealing with faxes/messages should account for this. Arguably the people that need help most are the ones who don't know what they're doing when they ask for help. "Help" doesn't just mean "ERT". Sometimes, perhaps even often, a simple reminder is all they need. That's a good response! I wish admins used responses like that more often. I wish that more admins actually SAID that in response to stupid faxes. Perhaps they'd get less stupid faxes. A big part of the problem with faxes, IMHO, is that NOBODY is ever told their fax is bad, let alone punished for misusing faxes, unless of course they send a faxed copy of their own ass or something so blatent as "fuck CC! Long live the syndicate!" I'd love it if admins were much more responsive to faxes - and that included coming down much harder on people who misused faxes, either due to ignorance (sending them a reminder of what is acceptable or not), or malice (sending a team to "deal with" a command crew sending "fuck CC" faxes). If you never bother to tell people that what they're doing is wrong and annoys you, how can you expect them to change their behavior? You can't! That's fine. That's normal, even. Often, things look much worse to the command crew than they really are, because the command crew has limited vision/understanding of the situation, and tends to see only the problems. There are a ton of things admins could say in this situation to say "no" fairly whilst remaining IC, such as: "Sorry, all ERT teams are currently deployed, we have none spare right now" "We tapped into your camera feed. So far, only 3 cultists have been observed. Our standard team is currently dealing with a xeno outbreak on installation 3847. We cannot re-route them for 3 cultists. If the situation becomes a dire threat to the station, swipe for ERT again." "3 cultists (we checked your sec records remotely) is not a valid reason for ERT. Your sec force is expected to deal with that." "If you have them in custody, administer holy water to deconvert them. If you don't, capture them, then do that. If you know exactly how many there are, we assume one of the above two situations applies." None of these break immersion or screw up the antags' round. Actually, I'd say they enhance immersion. Or, they already had their request ignored once, and they assume it will be ignored again, because they don't see any of the admins' reasoning, and just assume admins will ignore them no matter what they say. I've seen people make that decision a fair bit. That is a solution to the problem of "what do we do when there are no admins online to handle this?" That's a completely different problem to the one I'm mad about. The problem I'm mad about is what I perceive to be admins deliberately ignoring command crew SOSes for what I believe to be absolutely shitty reasons. I am not saying admins don't have good reasons for making the decisions they make. They do. The decisions are fine. Sending an ERT for a 3-person cult is overkill, no doubt. It would take most of the fun out of the round. I am saying their reasons for failing to communicate those decisions with the command crew that has requested their help are shitty. Perhaps not all of them, but "the message wasn't formatted correctly" is seems very shitty, and "we're not babysitters" seems arguably shitty, depending on how likely it is that you think someone who sends one shitty fax/msg will send another because they were never told their first one was bad in any way. It should be a one-line change to make the ERT request a big, flashy color, or trigger a sound file for admins so they never miss it. Hell, even a new sound file is not required - just make it play the "boink" sound twice to indicate that an official request from the command staff has arrived and just like any ahelp, it should get some form of response, even if that response is "You're expected to handle that yourself. Let us know if _____ happens. If THAT happens, and you tell us, we might send help." Not meaning to tear you apart here, Tully. From your replies, it seems you actually do answer faxes/ERTrequests more than most. The lack of admin response to CC faxes/messages just makes me madder than anything else I see in SS13, with the possible exception of clowns being given all-access.