Toroic

Going through it logically, everyone has the oppurtunity to pick a real job or even a joke job like clown or mime. After that assistants can go to hop for whatever bullshit makework job they want, they have access to maint tools, tool closet, and the gateway. They could do their initial job of assisting people, too. Who is not being served by the huge variety of things that can be done already? This is not so much misguided as just not though enough to realize there isn't a population being underserved.

Completely not needed. Assistants already have access to the hop, mini botany, and tool storage to be able to make their own way. They don't need a make work station. I feel like this is the kind of suggestion that is made when someone comes back to a game too soon, and wants to change things purely for the sake of changing them.

While I understand that a group of players likes to go through the gate way to avoid actually playing the roundtable, you are very good at it if a clone can run in and steal whatever was valuable in there.

I dug around in the code and didn't see anything to suggest Kidan bleed more than normal. Currently glasses aren't balancing out the 20% brute resist, which is why I'm suggesting major robust upsides and a major downside.

It'd be nice to have a competent chemist around consitently. Personally I'm a big fan of custom cyro mixes that have mannitol and maybe some charcoal if we have spiders. Obviously a well-stocked fridge is helpful too. Med has been harder because of all the changes to surgery where we can't stack things like implants and fixing internal bleeding. What I like about medical is a lot of people come to medbay assuming they'll get slow and shitty service and healing. Fixing people quickly and efficiently gets them back on their feet and in a good mood, and using defibs and strange reagent separate novices from intermediates.

It is a problem, mostly because it is annoying. But to have unique and strong upsides you need to have downsides that matter. What do you suggest instead?

I've done about 10 hours of playing a surgeon a week for the past month, and not once have I done an organ transplant that wasn't brain related. I've seen shitty docs waste a lot of time harvesting organs from monkeys and leave the corpses lying around though, but they generally spent more time experimenting and not helping patients anyway. Infection is really easy to deal with, as has been mentioned before. Washing hands, and a few cc of spaceacilin solves the rest. Infection never requires surgery, though if it's localized it's a 5 second treatment. -1 from me.

I said "interesting", not balanced. 2 of those would be fair. Currently though 20% brute resist is garbage for no glasses, which is why kidan are so rare. On the other hand, we do have Vulps, a purely cosmetic reskin of Taj which are barely different than humans at all. I'm sure curious why you're throwing shade when you personally made: Snowflake: The race. I personally believe that having significant bonuses and weaknesses is a good thing, and the lack of glasses is annoying enough that the powergaming should be kept to a minimum. If someone is being a problem, sec won't have any issue as none of the Kidan bonuses are good vs sec.

Instant grab at level 2 would be interesting. I wouldn't mind them being able to see minerals, but I'm also ok with them just not being a good race for space mining. Diona suck at it too because good miners don't take damage and don't move like frozen molasses. I also am ok with them remaining herbivore, though Skrell already are herbivorous. I'm not focusing on medical. I have gone department by department and refuted your assertion that Kidan cannot do the job and do the job well without eyewear, with the exception of mining. One job on the entire station being closed to them is not a significant downside. It isn't even truly closed to them, they just need an advanced scanner. There's a lot of "I feel" in this. You're /supposed/ to feel the downside of a race. Diona feel the downside of their race every time they move and are negatively impacted in all roles as a result. We already have a race that follows this pattern, and as I have proven the lack of eyewear is not nearly as big a deal as your hissy fit would suggest. If it really bothers you that much, maybe Kidan is not for you. Diona being slow bothers a lot of people, thus we do not see many diona. As long as they're not OP, that is both balanced and more interesting than if we removed diona healing and made them walk normal speed. What I am suggesting is a very significant increase to a race's robustness. This should come at a cost that is meaningful, otherwise the race will be OP. Any competent player can manage to treat people effectively without medhud, any competent sec officer will still be competent while waiting for an implant. If Jonah Bright became a Kidan, you can bet a request for a sechud implant will be honored because we all recognize the value he brings, and that he would be able to leverage a Kidan's advantages. If sec isn't willing to even mention who is wanted because communication is that poor, they should probably just be spaced for being shitcurity anyway. I don't think unreasonable player incompetence is an argument why Kidan need sechud. I apologize for having to break up the next section into so many pieces, it's very dense nonsense. Yes it is, it balances out utility and durability. In exchange for being much better at melee combat and grappling, they lose out on non-essential utility. Part of balancing vox is having them not be clonable. Greys are not remotely balanced. Just like Kidan, they're weak and expensive. Telepathy is a joke because your PDA accomplishes the same task more efficiently. Furbeast resistance to cold is completely forgettable, because most of the time when a player is exposed to cold or heat it is due to a breach or fire. The resistance is not significant enough to make a difference in either situation. Vox are balanced because they can't be cloned and if you remove their internals they die. This is objectively false. Taj/Vulp are better than humans with no downsides. IPC are better in some ways but worse in others. Skrell, Kidan, Grey, Plasmamen are all worse than humans. That is because for the most part every race you listed is basically a human in a costume minus Vox and IPC. I already proved that Kidan can do all the jobs you mentioned without eyewear except mining, which is still possible if they get an advanced scanner. Diona make horrible sec officers and miners due to their speed. It is exactly the same. Plasmamen are purely a status race because it means you had earned 100 karma points and willing to spend it on a human who bursts into flame if not in their suit and also dies with removed internals. None of it is because they are balanced, in fact they are weak. If we're talking about an antag race, it is hands down vulp or taj. They have improved melee and excellent darksight, which makes maint ambushes much easier. You absolutely can play Kidan as normal crew because except for mining having eyewear is not essential to job functions. I've tested Diona mining. I killed one of each of the mining mobs without trouble, but also was way too slow to produce enough ore. They make /godawful/ miners because every other race gets a hardsuit which replicates all the important Diona benefits, because good miners don't get hit in the first place. Of the shitty logic and arguments you make here, this is the shittiest. Kidan have no issues with engineering setting up the tesla or simply wiring solars. It's entirely possible that engineering could change, but it's also entirely possible that anything could change. You don't base an argument on complete hypothetical, and your conclusion that Kidan would benefit negatively from engineering being more involved is yet another baseless assumption. You can still be a Kidan miner, which is the only job on the entire station they aren't good at. IPC make awful sec officers because traitors can get emp, and their general fragility also makes them poorly suited to getting physical. I already explained above why IPC make awful sec officers for two reasons. I'm really tired of slogging through all the misinformation that you present, but the short version of all of this is the only job where a competent Kidan with the bonuses I suggested is at any disadvantage is mining. I think that is completely fair considering that they would be much more physically robust in return. For Kidan to gain any significant advantage and still be balanced, they'd need a significant downside that would actually matter. For IPC, it is their fragility, vulnerability to EMP from traitors, and that if they are broken repaired they often lose limbs that are not recovered and they remain limbless until robotics can make more. IPC also cannot be cloned. Violence is a very common thing on Paradise. Playing as a Diona I've taken and regenerated significant damage in more than half the rounds. Blob, Cult, traitor, Wizard, nuke ops, vampire, revenant, vox traders all can involve significant violence to not just sec but all players on the station. To pretend like 40% brute resist, not being pushed, and double grapple speed isn't an advantage worth giving up the convenience (not necessity) of eyewear is completely intellectually dishonest. You've made two long posts here, and failed to prove your two main points. 1) That Kidan are limited from multiple jobs as a result of not being able to use eyewear (This is patently false. We can say mining, but with an advanced scanner this is not closed to them either) 2) That Kidan getting the benefits I suggested would not balance out the loss of eyewear (Eyewear is optional but convenient for all non-miners. Violence of the sort that would benefit from the Kidan benefits of brute resist, not being able to be pushed, and improved grappling is common and thus the benefit is useful.) My points are thus, and have been proven to be logical. 1) Kidan need a significant downside to have significant upsides. (Otherwise they would be OP, and we already have enough human equivalent races.) 2) Keeping the lack of eyewear is significant but not crippling, and having better brute resist and combat robustness is interesting.

You can still play Kidan as sec if you get an appropiate implant and use a welding helmet. You can play Kidan as medical because you need to smack them with a scanner anyway. As a surgeon you don't need a medhud. Mining sucks but you don't need eyewear for engineering, since your job is to sent up the engine and then go screw around for the rest of the round. Implants take time for RnD to research, require a surgeon to actually implant them and then still getting access to welding goggles, because a Welding helmet would mean you can't wear your Security Helmet when shit goes south. The only one who doesn't TRULY need a security hud in the sec department is the Detective and Brig Physician. And with the recent nerfs to RnD, implants are not ALWAYS gonna be a certainty of being there anymore, since some of that research may have to come from the ExperiMENTOR now, which is unreliable at best. As for Medical and Engineering, yes it's possible, but that's why I say it's a massive pain in the ass and not a direct lock like it is on Miners and Security. Plus, Mesons are required for Engine maintenance, given if you look at them without mesons on, you take eye damage. Medi-huds are vital for triage and getting critical patience priority treatment. Mining remains nearly impossible, because you can't see where any of the ores are, you just sorta hit rocks an hope for the best. Eyewear should not be a balance point for any race, it's too ingrained into jobs and how they function these days. And no point should there be MECHANICAL restrictions on someone playing an entire department just because "Wow these guys sound really cool, I'd love to play them!" Imagine if Greys were were made so physically weak they couldn't use the pull command or carry heavy objects. You'd effectively make them unable to do Cargo or Medical departments as a whole (Dragging bodies/patients), and that's a no fun and pointless limitation on a player just for picking this sprite over that sprite. TL;DR: MY entire point is, if we want people to actually play Kidan, for that race to get some love. We need to re-balance them with the idea that they'll have glasses again. Otherwise, no matter how much you re-tool them or give them better sprites, barely anyone are going to put up with THAT level of bullshit, just for some combat buffs that they'll barely get to use unless they're Security (Who they can't be without sechuds or Sec implants) or an Antag. Aside those two situations, most crew SHOULDN'T be getting into fist fights enough to make it matter all that much what combat stats someone has. Most of this is nonsense. You absolutely do not need medhud to do medical. Surgeons don't need it at all, and you can assume anyone walking in needs help. If two walk in and you're at the front, check the crew monitor like you should be doing anyway. It's convenient but not necessary. CMO also had a medhud implant in their locker. You could also drag beepsy or just be in communication as to whom to arrest, again making sechud a convenience not a necessity. Massive brute resist and better grapping is an interesting upside. They also won't be an antag race for the same reason diona aren't: sec can deal with them just fine. Stunprods work as normal, flashes work as normal, fire works as normal. Kidan make bad miners... So do diona. Also, needing mesons for engineering is a joke. Engine maintenance is not a thing, especially with a tesla and even if it's only a kidan just wire the solars and you're golden. We don't need more races that play like humans in costumes. IPC are an awesome race because they are balanced and yet play differently. IPC aren't any more limited in sec or engineering than Kidan would be. Difference is that current kidan are twice as much Karma and have no interesting upsides. I think that finding a way to work around no glasses lets us have much more freedom to give interesting and powerful advantages.

You can still play Kidan as sec if you get an appropiate implant and use a welding helmet. You can play Kidan as medical because you need to smack them with a scanner anyway. As a surgeon you don't need a medhud. Mining sucks but you don't need eyewear for engineering, since your job is to sent up the engine and then go screw around for the rest of the round.

This +1 Yep, this seems like a good bet. Make them omnivores rather than carnivorous though as their main prey are still plants. I'm glad you like the suggestion! I find the idea of a kidan robusting someone for getting between them and their diona roast. It was meant to have a chance against a diona, who I think most people generally are hesitant to get into a fight with. Kidan would if they are the best grapplers and can soak some punches.

Their current brute resistance is 20%, and since not even Kidan players think it helps, it really does not. The jobs that provide armor are not jobs that Kidan are any good at, like security, mining, engineering. They preyed on Diona thousands of years ago before Diona left the planet and mass starvations and mutation occured leading to the psychic emperesses. Have you tried to beat a diona to death? It's a pain in the ass because while they don't have resistance, they immediately and continuously heal the damage and don't have broken bones, bleeding or paincrit. I've been attacked in the face with a drill and just had some brain damage. Unless Kidan outnumbered Diona by a massive margin or only attacked at night, they would get destroyed. As soon as they got hit they'd start bleeding out and any Diona not completely killed would simply get back up and go back to fighting. There's a reason 50% of the server is taj or vulp, and it's not just because we have furries. It's that they have no downsides, darkvision, better melee, and are basically superior to humans in every way. Kidan bleed too much and suck at about half the station jobs because they can't use essential equipment without an implant.

From a design perspective Kidan have a number of issues. They currently have 20% brute resistance but bleed more, and can't use glasses. The first thing to notice is that their one upside is arguably negated by one of their downsides before we're even talking about glasses. There isn't much testing because they're expensive and weak, but are they actually any more resilient to brute damage at the end of the day due to bleeding? Benefits and penalties should compliment each other, not be at odds. IPC and diona are resilient against many kinds of damage, but easily killed with emp and plant b gone. Diona in particular are slow and unable to run away, so they are hard to kill and hit harder to compensate. The bleeding should be removed and either the glasses should be removed or their brute resist should be doubled and them made unpushable. One way to balance out Kidan's strength is to make them require 2 or 3x as much food as other species, and maybe even being carnivorous. No glasses really hurts their ability to mine or play sec. Or, leave the glasses restriction and make them better at grappling than other species. We don't have a race better at grappling, and people /should/ be more careful in getting in melee with a Kidan. Here's what I would suggest their benefits and costs be -40% brute damage -can't be pushed -no glasses -can upgrade grabs 2x as fast -get hungry 3x as fast -carnivorous That is what I'd expect from a predator species. Still just as easy to kill with burn damage, they will need to eat regularly, but if you attempt to toolbox one expect to get your ass kicked.

I think that they bleed more and can't use eyewear are already pretty significant downsides. Of course, greys and skrell are already worse than humans and definitely need more love. Kidan are expensive and not really interesting in their design either. You'd want their benefits to make things more interesting, not less. Passive benefits generally aren't interesting.

Looking over the stats and code for Kidan my opinion is that they suck. No eyewear makes them objectively worse for security, medical, mining. Inconvenient for chemistry too. 20% brute resist is pretty bad, and I think their riot shield protection being OP was grossly, grossly exaggerated. They evolved warring with Diona, which honestly they would lose badly at. Diona are physically far, far more robust. Yeah, a riot shield will help not get push or from Baldie McTide, but honestly people don't fuck with diona either because of the extra damage and rapid regeneration. I've killed every kind of mining creature as a Diona. Diona suck as miners because they're too slow, but they trivialize the combat. Pretty good against blobs too. Kidan are obviously intended to be a "warrior" species, and their current brute resist is not worth the massive loss in utility they get from no glasses. They'd make natural sec officers, but the loss of glasses isn't worth 20% brute resist alone.

As someone who exclusively plays Diona, I understand why they're so rare. Being slow is a massive downside for many positions, and their benefits are basically radiation immune (rare outside of engineering and rad storms), spaceproof (immune to cold and low pressure) don't have bones that can be broken, feel no pain, and heal rapidly in light (given that pda light is enough, this should be at 100% uptime) They have a number of positions they are horrible choices for. Sec officer requires mobility, engineering and mining already supply a hardsuit which replicates many of the benefits of being Diona. I generally see maybe 2 Diona on the station during NA nights, and they rarely take on head roles. Plant b gone is easy to get, there's a supply near arrivals if a traitor needed to kill one, and given their naming convention it'd be easy to know. In my mind Diona function best in a support role in departments that don't get hardsuit access. Janitor is a great and popular job for diona because they have a cart for mobility and if there is an explosion they can work alongside the engineers cleaning up. Point being, I don't think slimes having boneless limbs would be too much of an issue. The main downside to slimes is that they cannot be cloned, whereas diona can. Regenerating limbs or not it's not that difficult to beat a slime to death, and then they're dead forever.

This is a terrible idea for many reasons. Lore wise, borgs, AI, and IPC all use posibrains so if shielding them from radiation isn't standard, they would all get fucked. Balance wise it's pretty pointless too. IPC don't need more downsides.

So then kidan simply don't have a downside? That doesn't seem balanced. 20% brute resist is pretty good. Not being able to use eyewear is pretty minor already.

It is much more important to diversify the existing species before we add new ones. For example, skrell have absolutely 0 upsides and two significant downsides (can't eat meat, hardsuits don't fit)

Does kidan damage resist stack additively or multiplicatively?

It's hard to give any advice when it's not clear what you're trying to do. Botany gets unstable mutagen from chemistry all the time. Robotics and miners coordinate all the time as well. Engineering, atmospherics, security, genetics coordinate with other departments all the time as well. The main reason to deny someone tools is the potential for greytiding, and I don't give civvies a damn thing without good reason. What I should do is make them fill out several pages of paperwork.

All of my yes Remove neon colored snowflakes and give them like.. A pulse destroyer for all I care And out of no where the fur color hate returns. For all I care I'd like to see this topic go up in a flame(war). *sits back and munches on popcorn* Were you under the impression that there weren't people who considered neon fur a low-rp feature, and generally associate neon fur with snowflake furries? To be clear, I have nothing particularly against furries. Like chubby chasers and those into watersports, I don't get it but they're harmless. Snowflakes however, are generally disliked because they provide other players with two options: 1) Pretend that their implausible character isn't nonsense. 2) Risk having to deal with a drama queen shit-fit, which will piss off other players and the admins. Neither of these options are appealing. Keeping in mind that correlation does not equal causation, I often find that the most "unique" looking people have the least interesting personalities.

Any additional access to chems and tools is just going to make griefing easier. Anyone who needs said tools/chems already has access.

Pretty much what fox said. Cat eyes do not glow, and would never glow through paper. Ridiculous. However, I would 100% support a trade where the neon color choices are gone in exchange for glowing eyes.