Granodd

This is a topic that I've been known to go on about for longer than I should, given how strongly that I feel about it. As such I will legitimately try to keep what I've got to say brief as to avoid a giant wall of text the last time I went on about this sort of thing. Being a long time player of both IPCs and more recently humans, there are very drastic difference between the two (as there should be). Though I've found that in that time, I actually prefer to play my human more than my IPC, despite the vast amounts of immunity and quality of life that IPCs tend to have. The first reason for this being that I found out that the strengths that IPCs have in comparison to other races is not as special as they're made out to really be. A lot of things that organics have to worry about I've found can be avoided - or in the least - alleviated with proper planning or attention. The second reason was because I didn't die instantly to an EMP when they happened, though I'm not going to really talk much on EMPs here at all. And the third reason, while less important to this discussion but equally as influential to me, was the ability to roll for more antags than what my IPC could (yea I like to be the bad guy a lot, sue me). Also some reason about "cyka blyat". EMPs, as awful as they can be sometimes, do make sense as a weakness, and shouldn't be removed any time soon. EMPs could certainly use a tweak, though until we can find a clean way to do that, are fine as they are for the time being (as much as they make me a grumpy man). IPCs severe weakness to brute and burn, however, is something that doesn't quite make much sense to me, and seems like the easiest issue to fix with IPCs. Now, a weakness to burn damage (the high temperature type, not freezing, though I think both still apply as it is currently), does make sense to me on an IPC, as computer bits don't do well with super high temperatures (it's why most computers come equipped with fans); but a high brute weakness (in the way that it is implemented at the moment) makes little sense to me, especially given the fact that a porous-boned space bird is more resilient than a man made of literal metal, yaya. If IPCs had a higher resistance to brute, but a stronger weakness to burn, I feel like that'd be a better version of their current damage modifiers. To touch on what Streaky mentioned in the beginning of his first post, and what others have also said... • [Immunity to Viruses]: Bad viruses that actually cause any sort of actual issue and aren't just cured away with one of the known wonder cures are few and far between. • [Immunity to Toxins]: A nice quality of life, though not something you'll get unless you get into a fight with a spider, someone is actively trying to poison you, or you drink something dumb. • [Immunity to Bleeding]: Actually really nice ever since the blood refactor. Though most stuff that causes bleeding just outright murks you because of your high brute weakness as an IPC. • [Immunity to Clone Damage]: IPCs can't get cloned (or prescanned for that matter), and the only enemies I know of that can inflict this are slimes and abductors with their gun. • [Immunity to Skeletal Damage]: I suppose this means "you don't have bones", though what do broken bones really do, anyway? They make you drop things in the case of your hands and arms, move slower if in the legs, and cause organ damage in the head and chest. IPCs escape the head and chest bits cos they have no bones to shift around there, but their legs and arms still operate in the same way as organics, though it only needs to be high brute/burn damage to cause the slowness or dropping of things. • [Immunity to Radiation]: Not a common thing that you encounter, though I've heard some people mentioning that IPCs should be susceptible to it, which I could agree with if they traded out rad immunity for being space proof (though we know that'll never happen given how space immunity is a huge balance issue all its own). The last things I'll say that bother me with IPCs is how easy their brains are to pop out by antags, that their brains come out with their speaker defaulted to off, and that every other race can recover from body destruction whether with prescanning or insertion into a surrogate body with the brain. That last one you can technically get around with some janky cheese mechanics, though I don't really count that, as I know it's hardly intended in the code. All in all, IPCs could use a balance adjustment of some kind.

My most notable IPC is Jeriko-Bashline, followed by Serenity-F. There's also CATCH-22, but he's crazy and breaks all the time. As to why I play IPCs, I just have a huge thing for robots in general. Not really a Synthetica follower all that much really, just IPCs who try to lead normal lives.

So I just unlocked Plasmeme today, and started out with the name Eacles (which is the name I used on a bunch of different servers that had plasma men as well). Though I've decided to rename to Argon, seeing as I got Eacles from my moth on Hippie station, and Eacles is just a genus of moths.

There's something about the polarization that this topic causes that peturbs me, fills me with a faint sense of hoplessness, and at the same time a drive of determination to get others on the other end to agree with me, or in the least understand my side. Not only that, it's a topic that has clear sides on the "for" and "against" fronts, but a lack of cohesion in the people in their respective sides. The people who are against the current state of IPCs have varying degrees of "spirit", as well as how much they want changed, whereas the other side either has a simple statement that they think it's fine the way it is, or giving ultimatums if anything were to be changed at all. It is obvious to me that more people think that IPCs are just fine the way they are than those who want to see a difference, but regardless I still hold my stance that something should be changed for the better without knocking another major weakness into the race. On the topic of what @Da Dman234 asked, as for improving/adjusting/nerfing how EMP interacts with IPCs to where it was no longer an instakill, it's not hard to see why anyone would want to change an instant-death mechanic into anything but. In the end, it's still a game, and in any game there is, instant-death mechanics are hardly, if ever, fun; and when they're used as a form of balancing something, it just seems a bit heavy-handed. I mean adjusting EMPs to what's been previously mentioned is certainly not the biggest improvement, but it's marginally better, and at the same time, is about as much as people on the "pro-IPC" side (let's call it that) believe they can offer without being instantly shot down. And to me, that's slightly disheartening. I wish that these discussions didn't feel so uphill and one-sided, any proposals to remove what would otherwise be seen as a not fun mechanic being dismissed in a number of ways ("IPCs are just fine the way they are"; "Oh look more IPC whining/salt"; "Maybe you should just not play the race you like"; etc.) I don't want to paint myself as a victim here, anything but, though I do still want to present what these sort of discussions are like to me. I suppose the one question I'd like to pose to the opposite side is how the strengths IPCs have add up to justify the great downsides they have. I already put forth how I thought they didn't really add up, and in a way were devalued by the presence of the weaknesses, but I'm still curious to hear. The closest analogies I can give of "doesn't add up" is someone in CS:GO trying to trade a bunch of Sand Dune Glocks for someone's Crimson Web Karambit knife, or someone trying to pay for a meal at McDonalds with nothing but pennies. Eventually you'll get to the worth that you're after, though you're likely not going to get pleasant reactions. In this instance, I don't feel like the worth is quite equal between strengths and weaknesses, and those who do I still view with skepticism. In the end, I suppose the only thing I'd want for IPCs (and I say "I" as everyone on the side of changing IPCs has their different views of what should and shouldn't be) is for them to not fall apart so easily to practical things like melee combat and the like while still retaining their other strengths, as when actually applied, those strengths don't mean much in this atmosphere. EMP, while I strongly disagree with the whole instant-death thing, is maybe my second grievance with the race, and I have more issue with how fragile they are to everything else. If they retained that one "Achilles heel" while becoming more durable in the brute/burn category, I would say then that they're more appropriately balanced. Sure people want their robots to be space-faring like the Vox, but as @Anticept sort of pointed out, machinery gives off heat, and in space, there's no where for that heat to really go. In the Bay code, IPCs actually need heatsinks to attach onto their voidsuits similarly to oxygen tanks. Though EMP in the Bay code doesn't instant fritz them, instead heavily damaging them, while high damage causes limbs to malfunction and sputter (causing them to fall over or drop things); they also take less brute damage, but their posibrains are located in the head, so decapitation there means the same thing to them as it does to organics, and on that same note, don't lose limbs as easily as they do here. In a way, I do like how Bay handles its IPCs, though at the same time, they don't have the ability to repair themselves (on Aurora at least, though this is hard-coded with the explanation of "this is against H&S regulations", which to me just feels silly). IPCs at the moment are in a tolerable position, where playing them is still something I can enjoy, though I am constantly reminded of things that I wish were different. I don't know what their future holds, though I do in a way hope it's something slightly better.

There's so many things I want to say on this topic, though restrain myself from saying seeing as I know that I won't really get anywhere when I say them, as it's one of the more unpopular opinions around here that usually gets responded to with either that I'm salty, or that I'm just wrong. I'll go ahead and say it anyways, and I'll try to keep it short. The main thing about IPCs and how they're balanced sort of bothers me in the sense that people like to point out "all these upsides that they have" in justification of the major downsides that they also have. Though upon inspection, and you're open to disagree with this, the upsides that IPCs have are many, small quality of life things, a few middle of the road ones that are really great to have, but then two major downsides that really dampen those strengths. I'll try to explain what I mean in as short of a manner as possible because the last time I tried typing this it was over one-thousand words... • No Pain Extremely handy for walking over glass with no shoes (good) and not getting knocked down and screaming from a pain proc when someone hits you with something (very good). However it doesn't function really in the way you think it does beyond that. There is no pain-crit here like there is in somewhere like Colonial Marines, and as such pain doesn't mean that much. Normal races drop items from "pain" in broken bones, though so do synths when their arms are damaged enough. Not falling down from something hitting you (such as an energy sword) is good, though you'd need to have quick reaction and speed on your side to get away from it before it permanently downed you, seeing as you're made of paper mache. Suffering pain during surgery has zero downside as well, and is more of an RP thing at the moment, on top of the fact that they are still slowed down when damaged in the chest or leg region @Citinited • No Breathing (Immune to Oxy Damage) A few races have this, Dionae and Slimes being the other two that you can select. Useful against things like a lack of air or being choked. It's a nice thing to have, although in most cases it's simply the difference between wearing internals and not. Being choked on the other hand is a good upside from surviving wild greytide/traitor attacks, though the latter will more likely carve you up with an energy sword than spend his precious TCs on a garrote (or just buy the EMP items which are both costed at only 2 TC each). • Immune to Chems, Rads, Viruses (Immune to Toxins) All the things that plague the fleshy form. Such a great day to be robotic! Or is it...? Here's the catch on these things: they're fairly niche. Don't get me wrong, they're really convenient to have, but the instances in which being immune is actually noticed or considered an extremely good thing is few and far between. The most useful of the three is likely the immunity to chems, as it means Traitor McGee and his trusty RSG isn't getting you any time soon, but as mentioned before, he's likely not after you anyways if he's packing an RSG. More likely a flashlight. Spiders like to use venom a lot, though venom will only kick in if you survive a spider attack. The best case as both organic or synth is to run, as the poison will kill you if you survive, and you're unlikely to survive as an IPC unless you've got a good spider-killing tool. Immunity to chems also means none of the quick healing effects that they offer; even quicker and passive when compared to having to stand in place with welder/cable/nanopaste (which is arguably shorter than a visit to medbay). Of course chems require a bit of prepwork, equipment, and sometimes other people to acquire, though a savvy individual will always know how to get access to them. Donk pockets for instance are one of my favorites. Immunity to rads is good if you work engineering, though not much else seeing as the only sources of it are the singularity, SM shard, grav-gen, rad-storm events, and that traitor medical scanner that no one buys. Organics can avoid them by wearing a suit, so the real upside here is being able to be near rads without a suit, which unless you're in space doesn't mean a whole lot. Viruses are another rare occurrence, as most of the time a Level 7 rolls about it's something that's cured with salt or orange juice, and in the case of Brain Rot (the one 'deadly' Level 7), mannitol (which is an easy medicine to make). Virologists themselves can't release harmful diseases without being bwoinked unless they have hijack, and hijack virologist is not that common of an occurrence. Immunity to viruses also means no healing viruses, either. Though most of the issue here I feel is that our virology is really one-dimensional in the fact that diseases aren't impactful enough in addition to being easy to cure, on top of virology only being allowed to use biological warfare if they're something like hijack. Lastly there's genetics. The decloner (which doesn't have an often enough debut) won't work on you, you can work in xenobio with (mostly) no fear of the slimes, and genetic powers are unavailable to you. • No Bleeding I will admit that this one is probably one of the stronger more useful ones to have, given that loss of blood can really shaft you. I would consider this one of the few practical strengths that IPCs have. It would hold more weight if they were a bit more hardy and could survive combat on the same par as everyone else. The only other race I know of that does this better is Dionae. • The APC's Natural Predator We rely on engineering and not a cook. That's really all this is. As of a recent PR, knock off our right arm and we're completely incapable of doing it at all unless we get back that limb and/or visit robotics. A quality of life thing that's been very slightly made worse than its previous variations due to recent PRs. • Can Survive Without a Head So this is one that I hear a lot from the opposite side, and it really bothers me. Surviving decapitation is a great, great strength. The catch: this would mean so much more if this wasn't a daily occurrence for a race whose limbs stayed attached about as well as a lego set. Decapitation to an IPC also means different things than to an organic, so comparing the two is like apples to oranges. Removing their head is effectively just blinding them, which can be done to anyone with eyes and a screwdriver in nine hits. IPCs don't go blind after nine hits from a screwdriver, but their head does pop off after eleven. You could pop it off in roughly four with a toolbox, whereas you'd need something heavy duty like a chainsaw or dual-bladed energy sword on anyone else. The decap proc to organics is RNG, though if whatever you're swinging does enough damage, it'll knock off a synth's head in one hit. The same's true for practically every other limb they have, especially the hands and feet. In the end, this practically just means that you can blind an IPC (in addition to removing their ability to call for help on their headset) much easier than you could anyone else. • Can Repair Yourself I touched on this one briefly in a previous point. Very handy to have, albeit tedious as you need to target every limb, actually have access to a welder (which disappear often in the presence of civilians) and cables; and in the case of limbs popped off, a buddy and a table. This is the same for anyone else who's repairing you, though it does go slightly faster, but with the same tedious targeting ordeal. A good strength to have, though overall is better for prolonged engagements, and would mean much more if you didn't stack on damage and lose limbs harder, better, faster (not stronger) than everyone else. • Don't Decay Basically just that. We don't decay and we can be brought back with enough welding fuel and cable wires. Ultimately this means death is an inconvenience, but only if we get found by someone who can save us (you'd be surprised how many people do not know how to fix a robot). It's our version of cloning, and we don't have an "auto-process" feature either. Better to have early in the round as opposed to when science has upgraded the cloner. If you get debrained, you can't ghost at all for fear of losing your ability to re-enter the round at all, as posibrains are a ghost role. Normal brains aren't, though I'm unsure if ghosting from one prevents you from re-entering it (someone will need to help clarify this). • Weak to EMP Everyone's pretty familiar with this one so I'll not really say too much besides that it goes through walls, has a nasty tendency of popping out of nowhere (changelings + EMP implant), and is widely accessible (uranium+iron mixes, ion rifle, cult rune, traitor/nukie items, changeling screech, singularity, and if you're silly enough to get near it, the EXPERI-mentor). • Increased Brute/Burn Damage 50% more in both regards. Most races only have one or the other. We've got both. The highest brute mod of any race, though not quite on burn (slimes take 300% more cold, while Drask take 400% more burn if I remember correctly, though this is to specific types of heat. The burn mod on IPCs however takes into effect both, which covers a slightly larger range than the other two, placing them in a de facto third place for highest burn weakness). What does this truly mean though? Their limbs popping off is mostly thanks to this, as is their ability to die extremely fast. Immunity to oxy and toxin damage is great, though they're the two least common forms of damage in a game where combat is a frequent occurrence, the two most common forms of damage being brute, closely followed by burn. This is where that "practicality" thing I mentioned comes into play. If you just look a the surface of things: yes, IPCs do have the most strengths compared to any other race. Though when you sit down to really analyze those strengths, you find that only a few of them mean a whole lot of anything outside of convenience, and the ones that do are made not nearly as effective due to their two major weaknesses. In my humble (and likely disagreeable) opinion, if the brute/burn mod was cranked down a notch, and the EMP tweaked to where it was still your bane (two strong pulses as opposed to one, which is still better than plant-b-gone for dionae due to its ability to transcend walls in addition to an AoE radius), but wasn't one-shotting you through a wall, then they'd be in a more balanced position. Also, whoops, remember when I said I'd keep it short? Well I tried, and I didn't necessarily lie, but oh well. (edit): • Don't Go Blind From Welding I mean it's handy, but again, something you can completely avoid as an organic with welding protection in the form of goggles or a welding mask. If anything this is a benefit to if you don't have access to these things and you're trying to keep stealthy by not asking for welding protection so no one knows you're welding. Chances are though that no one truly cares, though. I mean I always wear welding protection even as an IPC because the white flash is highly annoying and "effectively" blinds you for three or so seconds, which isn't good if you're trying to keep an eye out for things.

Humor me for a moment. Why would this have to be the case?

Hi, I'm Granodd. I've been playing on the server for close to eight or seven months now. I was introduced to SS13 eight or seven months ago, and Paradise was my first station. This game tickles many of my fancies and I cannot stop playing it. But in those eight months, I've come to learn many of the jobs, people, and customs of the Cyberiad, making it by far my favorite station (read: server). You might know me as Jeriko-Bashline, otherwise known as that red IPC with a really bad disposition who likes to smoke a lot and hang around atmospherics most of the time. He's my main "static" character, but you might also know me as Skrix Avi the overly optimistic kidan, Serenity-F the equally optimistic but much more pacifistic IPC, and then my vox that I never play whose name you will not remember. This might be my first official "hello", but I've been hanging around the discord a lot, so you might know me from there as well. I'm also pretty well versed in the station and how things are done, so if you have questions about things you can message me on discord and we can chat, and maybe I can teach you a thing or two. Or maybe you can teach me, who knows? Note: my discord name is exactly the same as my name here (no surprise really).