Ziiro

I want to argue against this - I've actually typed up a response a few times, but everything I'd argue for with regards to justifying ERT is pretty much solved with what you've got here.

Your links for cargo and engineering are identical, just a heads up. I agree about integrating the AI sat. One thing I'll add that I liked from Meta/Delta is that there's an Autolathe in the lobby of Cargo (or was it sci?) So that people who bring their own resources can print what they need without waiting for the AFK/SSD cargo tech to get back to them and/or breaking into cargo. If you're also feeling particularly bold, I want to add that integrating Telcoms into the main station would also make things interesting. Final note: Robotics needs a little help. Due to the number of IPCs that come through for repairs, it becomes a hectic and busy place very quickly in any sort of action scenario. I'd suggest adding a surgery table in the mech room with an analyzer and a toolbox. This will obviously be in view of the roboticist because of the windows. Perhaps adding more rechargers, as well: One in security (For SecBorgs), one in medical (For MedBorgs)

You know initially the floating clown was going to be my exact request, but I was unsure if it was possible in code.

I advocate that the server at those numbers needs something on the scale of DeltaStation, but as far as I know that map is still a Work-In-Progress on /tg/ even.

There should be a Clown or bikehorn on the background somewhere. Otherwise, perfect. :honk:

Re: Phazon: Oh shit, nice. Thanks for that! Re: Borg Illegals: I'd have to test that - I feel like the system probably isn't nuanced enough to tell the difference between emagging/AI illegals enabling vs applying it via module - but SS13 has surprised me in the past. I'll make a note of it for now though. Edits with corrections have been made. I'd add the things about doing R&D yourself, but those seem more on the advanced side - obviously welcome in the thread, but what I aim for here is mistakes/problems that might be run into for the newer/middle experience player.

Felt like writing this, because I remembered a few things when I was doing robotics that made things go smoothly, or just less stressful/wasteful in general. DON'T BORG AN SSD BRAIN. After removing it (but before putting in the MMI), examine it to see if it has a spark of life! If you fuck up and have an SSD Borg on your hands, the only solution is complete deconstruction. ALWAYS HAVE A CYBORG BODY READY TO GO You never know when Security is going to knock on your door and tell you to borg someone, immediately. But don't forget to check if the brain is active first! ONLY ACTIVATE ONE POSIBRAIN AT A TIME. This limits frustration on the part of people who sign up. Which, in tandem with the above mentioned rule, means that you should always have a Posibrain in activation mode next to an empty Cyborg body, if possible. YOU DON'T ALWAYS NEED TO ORDER RIPLEY BOARDS. If R&D is doing their job, you should be able to print them fairly quickly. Additionally, you should only make these on demand if a miner requests one. There are better mining tools. COUNT YOUR RESOURCES BEFORE YOU MAKE THAT MECH. Yea, I know you want to make that Gygax/Durand, but check that you have the Diamonds/Uranium for the entire project. The armor takes a fuckton. You probably don't have enough. You probably shouldn't be making it anyway. DON'T EVEN TRY TO MAKE A PHAZON. It's bugged, it's awful, it's difficult to use and there's a very unique piece that is required to finish it. Don't waste resources on one unless the RD hands you the anomaly core and asks you to build him one. DO NOT PUT MMIs/POSIBRAINS IN MECHS. Yes, I know you can, but you shouldn't. They're unlawed and dealing with door access for them is obnoxious. UPGRADE A MECH'S BATTERY BEFORE IT LEAVES YOUR WORKSHOP. The stock battery for all mechs is 7500 (Thanks davidchan) and that's terrible. Here's how. UNDERSTAND HOW TO REPAIR IPCS. IPCs break. Constantly. Read the guide on how to put them back together. Please. IF A BORG IS EMAGGED, THE ONLY SOLUTION IS TO DECONSTRUCT IT. DO NOT RE-ACTIVATE EMAGGED BORGS. I mean it's hilarious when it happens, but still. THE TEXT "THE INTERFACE APPEARS TO BE DAMAGED" WHEN UNLOCKING A BORG WITH YOUR ID MEANS THE BORG IS EMAGGED/UNLOCKED BY THE AI. You should probably tell someone that your fellow Roboticist or RD is probably traitor. (Note: This may also appear if illegal mods have been legitimately installed through extensive R&D. Use common sense.) GET YOUR METAL AND GLASS WHEREVER YOU CAN. Scour maintenance (If it's safe!) Ask the AI for permission to take materials from EVA! Take them from wherever you can! You can also use a welder on metal rods to turn them into metal sheets. That way even if mining sucks, you can still build borgs instead of having to cryo out of boredom/shame/stress. REMEMBER THIS ORDER FOR BRAIN REMOVAL. Scapel, Hemostat, Retractor, Saw, Retractor, Hemostat. REMEMBER YOUR S.O.P.: Get paperwork for Cyborgification. (Signed by the victim subject, stamped by HoP or Captain, AND GET THEIR ID TERMINATED) Do not make un-approved Mechs. Remember Anesthetic for your patients. (Tell them to drag their old body to the morgue afterwards, too) DO NOT MAKE A HONK with tracking beacons. Give it a charged slime core and a mounted teleporter. Nothing bad will happen I swear. Without the expressed permission of both the Captain AND the RD

That cultist hardsuit is incredible.

Afraid this isn't a comeback post, but rather some knowledge I felt the need to pass on in a guide. Not that what is on the wiki is incorrect/bad, I just felt like putting it together in one post.

To repair IPCs, you will need the following: A Welder A Cable Coil A Screwdriver A Crowbar A Multi-tool (If doing brain/limb removal) A table (Normal or surgical. IPC surgery failure rates on normal tables is not a big deal except in Internal Component repair.) A cyborg analyzer and nanopaste makes things easier, but they're not required. Surface Damage (Does not require a table) Make sure you're on help intent Target affected area Use a turned-on welder for brute damage, and cable coil for burn damage. Repeat until all areas are green or 0 0 is reported on the limb using the cyborg analyzer. Limb Re-attachment (Requires table) Make sure you're on help intent Hold the limb in your hand Target the area it belongs in Use limb on area NOTE: IF ATTACHING THE HEAD, MAKE SURE THE OPTICS ARE FUNCTIONING/IN PLACE. You may need to repair/replace them. Internal Damage (Requires table) NOTE: THIS COVERS BRUTE/BURN ON THE HEAD, TORSO, AND LOWER BODY THAT WHEN YOU ATTEMPT TO REPAIR NORMALLY, IT SAYS This is too damaged to be repaired externally Make sure you're on help intent Target affected area Use a screwdriver and select "Cybernetic Repair" (I think. Something repair.) Use the screwdriver again to unscrew the area Use a crowbar to open Use a turned-on welder for brute damage, and cable coil for burn damage. (AND WAIT FOR THE PROGRESS BAR TO FINISH) Use the analyzer after each repair to check if it's fully repaired yet. (Or just ask the IPC.) If not, return to step 6. Once the repairs are complete, crowbar the panel closed. Component Damage (Can be done with a normal table, but you should probably use a surgical table for less failure chance. It will happen.) NOTE: THIS IS FOR WHEN THERE IS DAMAGE TO EITHER THE OPTICS (HEAD), MICRO BATTERY (CHEST), OR POSIBRAIN (CHEST) Make sure you're on help intent Target affected area Use a screwdriver and select "Internal Component Manipulation" Screwdriver again Crowbar to open Screwdriver to repair the component. This will either end with a black success text "Zero.Platform has successful repaired the Posibrain" or Failure Red Text: "Zero.Platform's hands slip, damaging the posibrain!" (or something, it's been a while) If you get red text, don't worry. Just try again until you succeed. (...Or just use nanopaste. But the number of times I had this available to me I can count on one hand, so.) Scan with the analyzer to see if all the damage has been repaired. If not, return to step 6. Close with the crowbar. HELP, I NEED THIS IPC'S BRAIN FOR GREENTEXT / THIS IPC WANTS TO BE BORGED (Requires a table) Make sure you're on help intent Target chest Use a screwdriver and select "Internal Component Manipulation" Screwdriver again Crowbar to open Multitool the brain out BONUS STEP: PLEASE TURN ON THE SPEAKER AND ENJOY THE SALT, IF YOU KILLED THEM. (To turn on the speaker, hold posibrain in hand and use it. This toggles the mute. A posibrain is muted by default when removed.) IPC Implants/component replacement (Requires table.) Make sure you're on help intent Target the area it belongs. (anti-drop in head, x-ray in eyes, etc) Screwdriver, select "Internal Component Manipulation" Crowbar open Use the implant/object on them to install. (For example, this is how you re-install a posibrain. Or install new optics.) Crowbar

Rename Mechanic to "Space Explorer" or something, since their relation to Engineering is questionable at best. (Both in theory and in practice.) Supply them with a GPS to start. Allow all cargo modules to be built from the start - I would understand the research limitation if you could have multiple at once but you're making a choice. Let that choice be made when you're building it. Modify the bay so it's 4 wide instead of 3. That way you could, in theory, have multiple mechanics/pods.

The problem I have with it is is the prevalence and consistency of antags to just remove IPCs from the round in completely uninteresting and frustrating ways. "Oh, I have an IPC as a target." Click flashlight/implant. Remove robit from the game. Bonus points: Remove brain, melt it, then watch robotics struggle for 15 minutes (should they recover the body!) to figure out why the character can't wake up. Repeatedly, I have been EMP'd and they got away with it. One of those times I was actually killed at departures, surrounded by a dozen people. Nobody noticed or cared. What am I supposed to do? What's the counter? How is it interesting that I a 2TC item can completely obliterate a character with zero effort? Not only that, few people can actually be bothered to restore an EMP'd IPC. I've watched quite a few times where some Captain/HoS IPC is dragged onto the surgery table in robotics, and the roboticist struggles to figure it out with another heads of staff breathing down his neck and the entire ship going to shit in the process. Most of the time, death in SS13 is funny, or interesting, a learning experience, or at the bare minimum: entertaining to ghosts watching. But an EMP death feels like the antithesis of that. There is nothing you can do to counter it, there is nothing you can do to prepare for it. There is nothing to take away from it, and it's completely anticlimactic. If it seems this is something of a sore spot for me: Nearly every death in one week of playing SS13 super hard for me was to EMP's. Different circumstances, different gametypes, different antags. Sometimes it was even antag v antag! I've been racking my brain trying to figure out if there was anything I could've done differently. ANYTHING I could've done to avoid any of those deaths. The only answer is: Play an organic race that is less interesting to me - because no other race has to deal with this.

I exclusively play IPC, and I made my thoughts mostly known in the other thread. summarize: I mostly agree that IPCs are mostly in a good place with the following exceptions: EMP effectivness: To be brief: Stealthy, Instant death at 2TC/wide availablity is a bit much. I'd agree with what others are suggesting, and make it a Sleepy-pen-like/Stun effect and throw on some burn damage (perhaps internal component). This makes IPCs less of a free kill. Emag interaction: It was proposed in the other thread to add a sort of emag interaction with the IPC. For the sake of balance, it would require you to have the chest open on the IPC, and to slap them with an emag to get 15 minutes of mind control that they do not remember later. NOT REALLY A PROBLEM BUT A THING I'D REALLY LIKE: To play on the strengths/self-reliance of IPCs, I really do wish we could re-attach our own limbs with the right tools/time.

Unlisted Con: Because they are not organic, they do not get access to Changeling and Vampire antag slots, giving them an overall less chance to roll antag.

I'd like to err on the side of IPCs being weak instead of overpowered. Making them more resilient to damage is not a change I'd be up for (Also I think it's 1.5x damage, not 2x). If they were to get a buff in any way (aside from an EMP change), I'd just like to be able to re-attach my own limbs, somehow. Hobbling around the ship and trying to find someone to re-attach can be tedious. Sometimes it's just finding a guy, pointing at him and saying "HEY, YOU. Hold this screwdriver and re-attach my limbs! I can tell you how!" But I can see how that might be a little outrageous to go from no legs and one arm and near crit to back to 100% with enough time and resources.

With regards to the surgery, this would be logical: Screwdriver chest, Internal component manipulation, screwdriver, crowbar to open the panel, then slap with the emag. This can be done within the described 3 minute window, but not as easily as just slapping them with it. And as far as more then one? Eh. I've had time to chew on it, and I just don't know. I guess if the surgery was involved, that's a decent amount of TC/Work to get 15 minutes of time out of someone, so sure, multiple could work.

Again, I think that IPC is mostly in a very solid place. They're very unique, and fairly balanced. Mostly. EMP is the only thing that feels out of whack. Pressure weakness and the general fragility I feel are appropriate. I find it amusing how if you, as an IPC, get in a fist fight with a diona, you will get your limbs punched off. They are synthetic beings, and they feel appropriately alien in anatomy and function. This has its ups and downs: People have knocked my head off and think they won a fight, but on the other side of the coin I've had roboticists struggle to figure out how to fix me. (We need a book explaining IPC repair!) Concept: EMPing an IPC acts more like a sleepy pen: Disabling them for 3 minutes, instantly. When they recover, their battery is nearly drained (<10%), making them move very slowly until recharged. Still very vulnerable. Not to mention you could still space them or just kill them in the amount of time they're under. Or just table them and remove the posibrain! It's super simple. (A sleepy pen is an 8 TC item. If you can do the same to an IPC for 2 TC, I feel like that's still a good advantage to exploit) Additionally, while an IPC is EMP'd and rebooting, they can be slapped with an emag to mind control them for 15 minutes upon waking up. After the 15 minutes is up, their 'backup memory' is restored, and they don't remember getting EMP'd. Mechanically, limit this to one IPC at a time. If the same traitor emags another IPC, the first thrall is lost instantly. (Not sure how feasible this all is, in coding.)

So one of my suggestions when I did the survery when it first came out was one of the problems with IPCs: EMP. Since then, I've played a lot more IPC. It's all I play! And nearly every single player-caused death in the last week for me has been to EMPs. (so please take this with a pinch of my salt) I can understand a balancing weakness for the IPCs: They have strengths in that they don't need food (Sidenote, Permabrig has no APCs. Permabrigged IPCs die a slow death) and that they are able to repair themselves and not have to deal with viruses/biological contaminants. Sure, you can get your limb cut off/punched off in like two swings, but I can take that. However being literally one shot by a 2TC item that nobody can detect, instantly, with no counter, is a bit much. Farya suggested in the chat, and I somewhat agree: It needs to be something else more interesting. Disable all the limbs, do the thing where they move at random and slur their speech. Maybe copy the effects of when an IPC is affected by heavy surge withdrawl. (sparking and falling down constantly, stuttering/brain damage. Still a relatively easy kill, but not a free one.) but instant death just feels really shitty. Hell, it'd still probably be an easy kill if you EMP them, too. Their headset is still disabled, they'd be in a super vulnerable state. Sidenote: I hear that IPCs used to be emag-able? Is that correct? Was it a permanent effect or something like the Chaplain staff? I think that this would be an interesting addition to the race - they a have lesser chance of getting most antag roles due to not being organic (No vamp, Cling), and those roles actively avoid or just kill them because they can't do anything WITH them. Giving them more interaction might be useful.

Assistants! On the offchance they win the fight, they get a double e-sword and eternal glory! If they lose? Well. They tried.

Operatives shouldn't be immune, or near immune, to each other. As for the idea OP posted, I don't see a particular issue with it. >Immune to ranged attacks >Double esword so you win all melee combat surely not OP Correct me if I'm wrong but nothing in the kit makes the person immune to stun prod/baton, right? I mean there's like a chance to deflect, but they're not immune.

The current 'meta', if you'd call it that, in WAR is that every person on the station is armed with combat shotguns. With the current population of the server, WAR is suicide 90% of the time. Which is a shame, because it's a lot of fun for everyone! I think that the Martial Arts scroll being allowed onto their uplink would be an interesting chance to deal with this. However, I am fairly new to the game, so I don't know if it's been a balance issue in the past. Please let me know.

As a borg one round, I got a law 0 that was "only Isaac davis is crew." I figured, "okay, I have no idea who that is. I will protect them." I found out it was the HoP, and kept passive tabs on them. Then my laws updated again. So, I had to protect the crew. I grabbed him by the hand ,dragging him to maintenance saying "I must save you." He asked "From what?" I replied "The oxygen." When he tried to run, I had to save him from himself, you see. I disabled him, ziptied him, and spaced him. "You will thank me for this later." That was the day I saved the crew.