EvadableMoxie

It was satirical actually, as in an attempt to use humor to prove a point. I'm sorry you didn't like it, but it wasn't a dig at you personally. Let me try to explain to you where I'm coming from here. What I hope to avoid is medical doctors on Paradise becoming simply cloner operators. To that end, I want methods to actually treat people, not put them in a machine that just makes their injures irrelevant. There are two ways to do that. One way is to nerf cloning. The other (which I personally think is the vastly superior option) is treatment methods that rival cloning. Treatment methods skilled doctors can use to get people back alive and kicking more quickly and efficiently than cloning. So when you have newbie doctors they just throw everyone in cloning and it takes awhile, but if you have skilled and robust doctors they can use other methods to get people back alive and kicking. Who is staffing the medbay becomes vitally important and has a major impact on outcomes for patients. The thing is, this is exactly what people want to get rid of. The argument there is to nerf everything BUT cloning, so everyone has to use cloning. Then cloning won't be so good because there will be a backlog. By removing or nerfing everything but cloning, we actually in effect nerf cloning by creating pressure on it. If this isn't your actual argument, please correct me to what it is. That just seems to be my impression from what you and some others have said. I don't want to misrepresent you. That argument makes sense if your perspective is solely on the overall balance of how easy or difficult it is for people to get back into the round, and you don't care at all about how fun or interesting the medical profession is. If you do care about that, even a little, this option is disastrous. I'd also argue it's inherently flawed since the bottleneck can be bypassed by building additional cloning pods, but that's getting off topic a bit. So, why is that option so bad in my opinion? Before, everyone who came into medical who was dead for less than 5 minutes could be defibbed, and then you had a patient to work on and do your job as a doctor. Now it's 2 minutes. If the new crit system passes, everyone who comes in dead will be someone doctors cannot interact with beyond throwing them in the cloner or morgue. So the window of patients we actually have to do medical work on will become incredibly thin. We'd need someone who has taken enough damage for there to be something more for us to do than a few patches, but yet not taken too much damage to die. And we need them either not in crit, or in crit but arriving in time to be saved. Will there be patients like that? Sure. But a whole heck of a lot less than there were when you could treat anyone who died in the past 5 minutes. The majority of 'patients' won't be people doctors can actually do anything with beyond throwing them in a cloner or morgue tray. On other servers that might be fine. Maybe because on Bay there is a much larger emphasis on roleplay. Maybe lethal attacks are rarer, and when people do die, it's a lot more about the aftermath of being cloned and the necessary counseling for the mental issues that arise from it, than it is about the actual medical treatment. And maybe it's okay on TG because TG is more about the antags and the action they provide than how each department operates in a bubble. And maybe the medical system is designed more to get people back into the round fast than it's designed to be fun and challenging for the doctors. I don't play on those servers regularly, so I don't know. I do know that not everything that works on other servers works here, something we agree on when it comes to this critical system. And I do know that if the critical system goes through as is, and cloning goes through as is, doctors will largely be cloner operators with a very narrow band of actual patients who need to be treated. That's going to be a massive blow to what was a fairly good and rewarding medical system. That's why I'm really, really concerned with the idea of nerfing everything but cloning in order to pressure it. I hope you can understand that, even if you can't agree with it.

Or the downsides are non-existent once the cloner is upgraded. But I think saying "Cloning is the problem" and saying "Cloning's current mechanics are the problem" is functionally the same argument. I'm certainly not arguing that cloning couldn't be changed so it isn't a problem, I'm just saying as it exists now it's a problem.

In the new system there will only be cloning and SR, since defibs don't revive, and you need to defib to do a brain transplant. I suppose you could borg someone, if that counts as revival. But yup, that's it. And keep in mind, SRing someone will be even harder than it is now, as you'll have to deal with the new critical system, plus any future nerfs to SR.

I agree completely, cloning isn't a problem at all. Doctors just need to get better at using ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS when it gets overrun in extreme emergencies (the only time it ever will be overrun). I'm tired of all these baldy doctors who think the only thing they can do is clone, when we have so many viable and robust ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS available. Let me all tell you a story about how it's really done. Let's say it's terror spiders or something and cloning is overwhelmed and bodies are piling up. As an industrious doctor who knows his shit I say "Ah! The cloner is overwhelmed! It's finally my time to shine as a medical doctor! I will not just piling bodies at the cloner, I will use the power of ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS to get everyone alive in no time and being a fucking MEDICAL HERO. Okay. So first I sift through the dead bodies. By now, most of them are ghosting. Some have respawned as terror spiders. Some have logged off. So I systematically drag them one by one to the morgue tray until I find purple lights. Ah! they're still logged in. I don't know if they want to come back to life, but hey this one has promise! So I SR them, and nothing happens, because they aren't in their body. So, I wait a bit and SR again. Still nothing. That's two SR pills down. Oh well. I move onto the next. Surely someone in this giant pile of corpses wants to come back and I'm going to be a MEDICAL HERO when I show off my ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS. So finally I find one that comes back. By now I've used up 6 SR pills, but hey, I got one! I rush them to Cryo and... huh, already dead. Try to defib. Uh oh. Heart arythamwasit? Oh, their heart is dead. Well, I'll just ask the friendly and responsive genetics department for a humanized monkey, since that's their job and surely my peers are as dedicated to the medical profession as I am. Oh, there's just one geneticist and he hasn't moved in the past 45 minutes. Well, I guess it's time to go hunt down tools and break into genetics. Okay, whew, someone else already broke into cargo, so I can get a multitool easily. I just had to dodge a few spiders, no big deal. Now, just a detour to learn the wires, shocking myself in the process but no problem, I got meds4dayz. Okay, hack into genetics, disassemble the window, grab a monkey cube box. Now just put it into the empty genetics scanner, mess with the last block, and aha a humanized monkey! Now, I could have taken the heart from it as a normal monkey but I know I'm going to have to replace the limbs, so might as well humanize it now while I'm already broken in. Okay, I have what I need. It's time to practice ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS. As soon as I find the body of my patient. I swear he was here just a minute ago... Well, let's go searching morgue trays. I sure hope he hasn't just logged out or respawned as a terror spider in the meantime. Oh lucky me, I found them and the tray is still purple. Okay, great, time do my thing! As soon as an OR opens up. I need to remove the heart and replace it, but both ORs are taken, because of course they are, it's a terror spider attack. So, I wait. and I wait. There's no formal queue here, and the living people are already screaming about the wait, I really can't bump them out to do surgery on a corpse. After awhile, a tiny hole opens up and I slip in and get started. The surgeon who was in the OR is now swearing at me for 'stealing their OR' and screaming to the CMO to demote me. Two patients in the waiting area with broken bones are swearing at me for treating a corpse when they're alive. The surgeon is now back trying to chain disarm me. We have an impromptu doctoral deathmatch for dominance of the OR, and the space gods favor me, and I now control the OR. Of course. I'm a MEDICAL HERO. Surely, when they see the power of my ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS, they'll all see the folly of questioning me. One of the living patients is now on the floor in critical with spiderlings pouring from them. Okay, take old heart out, put new heart in, defib... Oh right. It's been like 20 minutes now, way beyond defib range. But that's fine, more SR! Oh boy, the heart didn't die this time! Cryo them up, go back to the OR.. oh, it's taken again. Well, I'll just keep them in cryo until it opens up. Of course, since it's terrors and we have a bunch of critical people coming in, the other doctors aren't happy about me keeping a cryotube constantly occupied, and the Cryox is draining pretty fast, but that's just because they're incompetent baldies that don't know about ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS. Finally get back into an OR. Patient dies 3 times on the table, but I just keep defibbing to reset and eventually I have all the septic limbs removed, I've repaired their chest and skull, both IBs, and replaced their missing blood. The patient has no legs, and I can't replace them because terror spiders have taken over genetics and someone stole my humanized monkey. But, my patient is alive. I look down at him on the roller bed as I drag him to the shuttle which has now arrived because by now it's the end of the round. I tell him he has been saved by a MEDICAL HERO using the power of ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS. He asks me why I didn't just clone him. Urgh. I calmly explain to the half a person on the roller bed that cloning has numerous drawbacks. It can be overwhelmed, or tampered with! Yes, what we just went through was a much better option, and I'm sure, any day now, the rest of my fellow doctors will come to see that and start playing medical doctor the way I do. With the power of ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS. I don't get karma. tl;dr: Cloning is fine, it just needs to get overrun so Doctors will use ALTERNATIVE REVIVAL METHODS which are completely viable in the emergency situations that would lead to the cloner being overrun in the first place. SR is OP, it needs to take at least 10u to revive someone and the recipe should require a ground up chain of command. Spaceproof races are OP, nerf slime people. Death is trivial.

Not in that situation. The SoP is to keep all Cyborgs linked to the AI, unless it's subverted or Malf. That's the only bit regarding Cyborg laws, so there's nothing saying a Roboticist can't change Cyborg laws freely if there is no AI, or the AI is compromised. (There isn't anything saying anyone else can't either, but Borg maintenance is clearly within a Roboticst's duties). There are a lot of rules regarding modifying the AI's laws, but all of them specifically say 'AI' and not 'AI and Borgs.'

-1

To upload new laws you'd need a Cyborg upload. That's on the bridge, although nothing stops a roboticist from just printing one via their circuit imprinter.

I can't believe no one has posted this yet:

I don't think the goal of departmental lathes is to make it so everyone has absolutely anything they could ever want. If we wanted to do that, we'd just give everyone autolathes that produce everything. For things somewhat out of your department's specialization you need to go to another department. But that's fine, departmental teamwork and all that. If there is an item a department really needs and consistently doesn't get it can just be added to their own autolathe. Under the current system no one gets anything unless they go through science, so even assuming there will sometimes be issues, it's still a vast improvement.

Departmental lathes would solve this problem. Instead of the protolathe being one all in one machine to all the best stuff, each department gets it's own protolathe that can only print things relevant to their department. Each lathe would be locked to an ID of that department, so even if engineering builds a science protolathe it won't do them any good without a science ID. It has the added bonus of decentralizing power away from science. Part of the reason departments do this is because sometimes getting science to actually give other departments stuff is pulling teeth. Half of science is usually traitors and you're lucky if you can find someone who will be nice enough to actually man the RnD window and not just print all the best stuff for themselves and go wander off blow up monkeys or something.

Yes, but you're lucky if you get a roboticist who even knows how to do basic repairs on borgs, let alone unsync and relaw them.

Also remember that your neat traitor gadgets are a double-edged.... sword? Double edged e-sword? D-sword? Uh. That traitor gadgets are both helpful and harmful. Sometimes it's best to stash your stuff or just not buy it until you really need it.

I think both adrenals and d-sword is the problem, honestly. In my perfect world, melee would be the king in tight spaces or from ambush, but ranged would be stronger in open areas. Instead, you just pop adrenals and mindlessly charge everyone with a d-sword because you'll close the gap before they can react anyway and even if they do you're immune to all energy weapons and 75% of projectiles on top of having massive armor. Even if they get a shot off, it probably won't connect. Even if it does, they're just going to be absolutely murdered a split second later. D-sword is the SS13 equivalent of W + M1. There is literally zero strategy, just run up and click spacemen until they go sideways.

That is indeed true! Sadly, it only works with actual lighters and not welding tools. You can also light a cigarette off someone who is on fire.

You can hold a piece of paper up to a camera and the AI will receive a message about it and have the option to read it. This works even if comms is offline, which is a good way to get the AI's attention when normal methods have failed.

Back on my Neverwinter Night's server I made a post like this, but it was "Last Post Contest" where the last person to post there would win. It was actually the second incarnation of the post, the first died out when we migrated to new forums. The post was made on January 22, 2006, 01:02:00 AM. The last reply, so far, was on November 22, 2018, 11:50:43 PM. Yes, the thread has been going for just shy of 12 years. http://lotn.info/index.php/topic,16.0.html?PHPSESSID=s5oo1uo211autmo3sceanjn4i7 (Sakes is a much older internet handle I don't use anymore.) P.S: Zero.

The only thing I'd add is the importance of station goals. For the DNA vault, Xenobio should breed gold slimes and inject with blood or water to create a bunch of unique animal DNA samples. For the BSA, they'll want to make a bunch of bluespace crystals out of bluespace slimes as it might be hard for mining to come up with the 20 needed for the BSA. It also takes Quad Caps to build both which generally require yellow cores, but as you point out, Xenobio should be making yellow cores anyway.

You ever had just one of those days?

Thanks, should be fixed!

You haven't one yet!

It does not.