EvadableMoxie

And if they do, he couldn't really do much about it. There are only 2 mentions of the fridge in medical SOP, both under chemist specifically: Nothing in the SOP says the Fridge must be publicly accessible. I suppose the Captain or CentCom could order the CMO to put the fridge back, though.

You wanna know the really funny part? Lockers with nothing but empty pill bottles are behind a medical access only door in a locker only the CMO and Chemist can access, but the actual medicine is accessible to everyone and in the open.

Preach it. I think part of the reason why people think all doctors are incompetent is because people don't know what competence looks like. I recall one time when I got a corpse in with 250 damage and I started using truama kits and patches to get them below 180 and a fellow doctor started actually insulting me and calling me an idiot for wasting medicine on a corpse. And no, he didn't apologize after I revived the person in front of him. Often there are multiple treatment options and whenever you use one, invariably someone will question you on why you didn't use another. I've also been questioned for reviving people with 20-30% blood and IB (I was resetting the defib timer), Putting people into sleepers 'for no reason' (Clearing addiction), 'Ignoring' injured people (Treating a more serious case first, because triage is a thing), and many other things.

It would actually be much better for Medbay if people self-medicated with Cryo and not meds from the fridge. Cryox restores 12 Burn/Brute per tick with a 0.4 metabolism rate, which is 30 Brute/Burn per unit. On top of that, Cryotubes inject 10x as many reagents as you put in, making whatever you put in 10x as efficient as it would normally be. For example, if you loaded a beaker with 1 unit of Cryox into the tube and then waiting for it to empty and scanned the person, you'd see just under 10 units in their system. This means that when you are using a Cryotube, 1 unit of Cryo will heal 300 burn/brute damage. Of course, that's not being fair since you can't actually have that much damage and still be alive, and Cryox doesn't work on the dead. Also, unless you actually empty all but 1 unit from the beaker, it will inject at least 2 units into patients deep in crit since it doesn't stop injecting until they are at 100%. But either way you slice it, it is always far more wasteful to use medicine from the fridge while in Medbay than it is to throw yourself into Cryo, regardless of the amount of damage you have. Yes, but they may not have access to get those things. We aren't saying people shouldn't be able to use medication, we are talking about restricting access. No other department allows civilians to walk in and take their resources. Why is every other department allowed to secure it's resources but Medbay isn't?

Of course you want to do that in game, but when we outside the game talking design, we don't design in order to help ourselves never die. We choose to place obstacles and dangers into the game to make it interesting. I'm saying that the risk of an incompetent Medbay is a vital part of the gameplay experience. Yes, having an incompetent Medbay is a threat your character and it should be. It should be something that makes people say Oh shit, we don't have competent Doctors, this a major problem we need to fix. Not We don't have competent doctors but that's okay because I can just do everything myself.

I understand the concern there, but you could apply that same reasoning to insist people should have access to anything. What if there is a hull breach in Medical? That's an urgent situation. Why can't I waltz into engineering and take their stuff and fix the hole myself? Why can't Medbay do it's own research to upgrade it's own sleepers if science is being stupid? Why can't science just go down to the mining asteroid and mine themselves if the miners aren't doing it? If Cargo stucks, why can't I just walk in and use the computer to approve my own orders? The entire point of SS13 is the forced co-operation. You shouldn't be able to just walk into a department and do someone elses job if they are incompetent. You always have options to get around an incompetent department. You could find someone with medical access to help. A roboticst could fix your brain damage surgically. Botany might be able to make plants to help. Science could make Mannitol, if they wanted to. Maybe the Brig Physician has his own stash. I don't like this idea of "I need to be able to do ______, because what is ______ department is incompetent?" Then, you overcome it. You don't get to just waltz in and do it yourself.

I don't think Cloning will ever get removed, and it's perhaps a bit too much of an extreme step to go from what we have now to no cloning at all. I wouldn't mind some nerfs to make cloning more of an ordeal, though. Perhaps a chance for the cloner to mess up and have the person be missing a limb or organ or two. Or just something so actual medical attention is needed. Upgraded cloners really need a nerf, though. Being able to just hop into the cloner for a split second on your own and then have an auto-revive that brings you back 100% healthy without even genetic damage is too much, I think. Another option would be to make Biomass more difficult to get. If it was a limited resource you might need to make some tough decisions about who gets cloned and who doesn't.

Sometimes the best way to get things nerfed is to prove you're right by abusing the hell out of it (Within the rules, of course). You see antags exploding corpses every round and I bet you a PR will go up to restrict access to the chem locker pretty damn quick. I actually dislike SR quite a bit, in pretty much every way it's designed, including it's potential to be weaponized. I'd get rid of SR entirely and add a surgical procedure to apply Mitocholide to the heart to reset the defib timer, if it were up to me.

I didn't even realize everyone had access. Why aren't antags carrying SR to gib their murder victims? Instant easy cloning prevention. Anyway, a big part of the problem is the fact that you could literally dump out the entire fridge and apply every patch and take every pill and you'd be fine. Maybe mute, but that's it. Do that on CM or Baystation and you'd be dead from OD pretty quickly. People who don't know what they are doing just shoving random pills into their mouths should really face repercussions from that. I know we used to use the same chems CM and Baystation do and switched over sometime before I started playing, but it seems to me the old chems were a lot better because they forced you to actually think before you just shoved someone into a sleeper and hit every button.

I disagree. In my experience playing MD this is simply untrue. Not everyone has medical access to get into the fridge, and not everyone knows what every drug does, nor do people have medical scanners to determine exactly what is wrong with them and which drugs they need and how much. But even if we agreed you're right, this only means it makes Chemistry pointless instead of MD, which is still a solid argument against it's implementation. The changes didn't make surgery any more difficult. The steps have not changed. You just have to inject 5u of Spacecillin into your patients after surgery more often than you had to before. That, and you have an actual excuse for yelling at people to get the hell out of your OR while you're doing surgery, which is nice. They certainly didn't buff any antags. I'm not risking a shadowling getting lose or someone exploding with spiders in order to prevent a mild infection treatable with 5u on spaceacillin. I'm just going to do the surgery and then give them 5u of spaceacillin after. We have 5 doctor slots (Plus the CMO who is basically an MD most of the time) and 2 ORs. It isn't realistic for surgery to be the major part of every doctor's job. I kind of feel this is getting off-topic though. I will say in general I think medicine should be harder than it is, and therefore I'm pretty much against more magical solutions that anyone without medical training can use and have no downside. Even if it's limited to two damage types.

The problem is once science starts making these you might as well tell all the Doctors to go to Cryo because their job is now pointless. At least with the ERT beams they are rare and not so easy to get your hands on. If they are an R&D item, you could print 30 of them and give them to every department and close down Medbay.

Yup, the only thing that causes toxin damage from being septic is limbs, oddly enough. The main body parts do nothing beyond instant killing you at acute and spreading the infection. Infected organs take organ damage at Acute and above, but do not do toxin damage. Also, infections on limbs can never get to septic while attached, you have to let the limb decay while detached and then attach it for this to happen. Otherwise it stops at Acute, on the limb, though it will spread to other bodyparts. I could make a list of oddities, but I don't think I have the coding skill to fix them.

The person who died to brain damage? They could be revived but then died again instantly. I zapped them again to reset the timer (took me a bit to figure out it was brain damage killing them), repaired the brain surgically, then revived them again and that worked. The only thing the game checks as far as organs go is raw damage. If you damage an organ all the way so it 'dies' and then repair it surgically it will function perfectly. Also, heart damage does absolutely nothing beyond sending pain messages to the player. A 60 damage dead septic heart works equally well as a healthy one, although if you remove the heart entirely the person dies really fast. There's a lot of really wierd stuff in the code when it comes to organs and such.

But if that damage is rarely fatal, and usually fixed up while the physical damage is fixed up, then it really isn't a big deal. That's my point. If a slime person comes in with a cracked skull and 30 brain damage and a human comes in with a cracked skull and 20 brain damage, the end result is exactly the same. Taking more damage doesn't matter in and of itself. It would only matter if it makes slime people easier to kill, and it really doesn't. Interesting bit about the damage threshold. I wonder if that's intentional or a bug? If it is meant to be 200 damage for brain death then I can say pretty conclusively that would pretty much never happen in normal play. Again, mitigating factors like intentionally ODing yourself with meth aside.

I did some experimenting (I already had my server up testing alien embryos) and found some pretty interesting results. This was tested by laying the slimeperson on an operating table and beating them with a red toolbox. Near as I can tell, Slimecores don't take damage until the head and upper body take a certain amount of damage. if you keep hitting the head eventually the damage transfers to the upper body, and then the slimecore starts getting damaged. Slime core damage upon death varied greatly, anywhere from 30 to up to 100. Once, I managed to get a test subject to 120 brain damage (which is when death occurs) and it was on the same swing where they hit 200 brute and died anyway. It's hard to say anything conclusively because the results were so varied. Sometimes it's 30 brain damage, sometimes it's 100. I'm really curious about how internal organ damage works now, but I don't have time to dive the code. So, anyway, while it is probably possible for a Slime person to die of brain damage before brute damage would have killed another race, I can say it's fairly unlikely and almost always would have meant any other race in hard crit at least. Repeating these test of humans 3-4 times, I got about 10-20 brain damage before death occurred. It's hard to put a number on how much extra damage slimes take since it varied wildly. (For the record too, it takes 45 seconds to regrow a limb, but limbs and hand/feet have to be regrown separately, so that's 90 seconds total if you need a whole new limb) Cup of Chicken Soup contains 30 units of chicken soup. The metabolic rate is 0.2 and it provides 2 nutriment per tick. So that's 10 nutriment per unit, or 300 nutriment from a 30u cup. I wonder if it was supposed to be 2 nutriment per unit and this is a bug. What's the argument here? That Slime people are a worse race than Vox when you choose to OD yourself on meth? I don't understand how this is relevant to the comparison of mechanical power between Vox and Slimepeople.

Let me clarify some points here: Slimes not leaving blood with DNA is an extreme edge case because it is extremely rare for someone to die and have the culprit caught due to DNA analysis on blood by a detective. It's rare a detective does any investigating at all, let alone catches a murderer via the victim's blood. Likewise, in months of playing Medical, I have seen someone have enough brain damage to die from it once, and that came along with enough physical trauma to also kill them anyway. I think you'd have to actively try to create a situation where you die from brain damage before you die from physical damage. Like, you'd need to hit someone in the head while repeatedly treating the brute damage it causes so they don't die. My point about SR was about post-revival care. I was comparing the amount effort it requires to get from from dead to fully healthy. You are comparing the amount of effort to get them from dead to alive. These are two entirely different things. As a doctor, you don't just shove SR down someone's throat and walk away. You have to treat the rest of the damage, treat the genetic damage the SR causes, treat any broken bones, organ damage or missing limbs that resulted from what killed them, and then treat the various infections and dead limbs and organs they have from being dead if they've been dead awhile. It's an involved process, and that process is a lot easier when dealing with a race that has no organs and can regenerate their own limbs.

Most humans only do one role. Sure, the bartender is physically capable of setting up engine containment but if the bartender breaks into engineering to do that, you can bet the actual engineers are going to beat him to death with various tools before they let him anywhere near containment. Likewise, if the Barber is in the OR trying to do heart surgery, the CMO is going to tell him to get the hell out before they call security. I know how to set up the engine and I've done it several times, but I've never ever had to do it as a doctor in a live game. Maybe one day we'll get a round with literally zero engineers and my time to shine will come, but it hasn't happened yet. There are very few situations where humans need to do multiple things. Maybe on smaller populations that happens more often but when you have 100+ people and every role filled, there isn't often any reason to do another department's job for them, and it's at best kind of rude to do so.

I can understand people who think Vox are stronger than Slimes, since as I said I think they are pretty close. However, some of your arguments to reach that conclusion are things I disagree with. How much is "TREMENDOUS"? How much is "A metric ton more'? Hyperbole isn't a legitimate argument. It takes something like 45-60 seconds to regenerate a limb. It is highly unlikely you'll walk into Medbay and walk out with a new limb in less time than that. Nutritional cost doesn't matter when a single cup of chicken soup from a hot drinks vendor provides enough nutrition on it's own to last you an entire 2 hour shift. Limb regeneration is useful and powerful. Brain/Slimecore damage is never really an issue when Mannitol is 3 buttons to make and heals a massive 7.5 brain damage per 1 unit. If you were roughed up enough to get brain damage you probably need to go to Medbay anyway and a doctor will just pop a Mannitol pill in your mouth and that'll be that. Slipping on your own blood is a double-edged sword, sure, but probably more of an advantage overall. If you are fleeing while bleeding it's going to mess up your pursuers a lot more than it'll mess you up. The detective not being able to analyse your blood is an extreme edge case, but it's just as much an advantage for antags as it is a disadvantage for victims. In reality though, it's probably never going to matter either way. Slime people take more cold damage, Vox take more brute damage. I'd probably say that Vox's downside of 5% more brute is the worse of the two. Brute damage is incredibly common, cold damage is not. Yea, it sucks Grays have a 25% penalty, but that has nothing to do with how strong Vox versus Slime people are. Additionally, Slime people suffer from being unclonable a lot less than Vox do. There are no internal organs that can be lost or decayed, and missing limbs are no issue. You can get a heavily damaged slime person back alive and well far more quickly and easily than you can a Vox. Now, Vox do have a massive advantage in not caring about Atmo, and I think the recent Atmo tests and atmo improvements have only made this advantage stronger. I don't think someone who feels this advantage is better than everything slime people get is necessarily wrong for thinking that. Ultimately, I think both Slime people and Vox are mechanically powerful, and pretty close to eachother. It probably depends on your profession and the individual situation of the round. And I don't think either should be clonable, for the record. If anything, I'd like cloning to get nerfed somehow, but that's a separate discussion and doesn't really have anything to do with the races.

They can regenerate their own limbs, they have no organs and thus are immune to organ damage, and they use water as blood which is an unlimited resource via sinks and has no blood type compatibility issues. Personally, I think they're better than Vox. It's not like internals are hard to come by, there are O2 closets everywhere. I like Vox not being clonable, though. It's nice when I get to actually go to work on a badly injured patient and fix them rather than just throwing them in the cloner because it's faster.

Every job has the problem of not getting done when there is no one to do it. If there are no doctors, you have to deal with that, same as you'd have to deal with having no engineers or no security. Yea, it's going to suck, but that's by design. It's what makes jobs important and worth doing in the first place.

I'm not necessarily against this, but I just want to say that all you need to make unlimited vaccine is cure a single person (or monkey), then put a sample of their blood into the PANDEMIC and press a single button. It's never going to be hard to cure mass amounts of people with the current system.

I think an interesting way to do it would be more to make it so the fundamental chemicals are able to be produced in some way other than being generated magically via a machine. I don't like the idea of just having another magical dispenser that gives you all the chems you want. Make people scrounge for it and use materials at hand by creating a machine that can break down things into their composite elements. For example, if I want to make Mannitol without a chem master, I'd buy a bunch of breadtubes and extract the sugar, then I'd get water from a sink or water tank and use Electrolysis to separate the hydrogen from the water. Then, I'd mix that Hydrogen with Sugar, and Water to make Mannitol. Or for sulfuric acid, I'd use the same method for water and hydrogen, and extract the sulfur from eggs. I think it would be interesting to scourge around the station looking for the right materials that have the elements you need. If you need plasma for example, the best way to get it would be stealing a plasma tank, but that's not exactly going to be easy to steal, and it would lead to some 'interesting' RP if security finds your lab. Here's an idea of how you could get what you need for meth: Iodine - Extract from potatos Phosphorus - Extract from many foods, primarily milk, cheese or wheat Hydrogen - Extra from water Nitrogen - Extract from the air, air tanks Ethanol - Extra from boose, or distill from fruits Sugar - Extract from most foods Welding fuel - Available in tanks Carbon - Extract from from metal I think it would also be cool to have a type of ghetto chem-master that can create less effective pills and patches, something like 80% pills and 40% patches. This would of course be a massive bitch to code, but yea, it would be cool.

Roboticsts already kinda do that with cybernetic implants. They function identically to organs as far as the function of them is concerned.

Maintenance drones are limited, but that's kind of the point. They are something you can hop into at any time and completely disposable since even if you die you can respawn as a new drone instantly. The only change to maintenance drones I'd make is make it so they can't be emagged. Instantly respawning ghost roles that can vent crawl into a room and kill someone is kind of silly.

Without special darkened glass that provides UV and IR protection a gas mask would only really protect you from sparks. That's nice, but you'd still cook your own corneas looking at the light the welder gives off.