Zciwomad

In that case, having a diffrent lawsets is pointless and AI/borgs are just equal to the rest of the crew. Wanting perfect lawsets only removes fun with RP elements. If using/interpreting laws in light of "common sense", or "assist the station", synthetics are no diffrent from organics/IPC. The only thing is that borg must do that, becouse this would be OOC issue and lazy/disobedient Vox is a ICC issue. The fun part of interacting with borg and being borg in light of RP is that they are diffrent and they don't have "common sense", becouse they are synthetic, or organic with heavy agumentation to their brains. This creates opportunities to be more creative. As an Antag, player could use "Crewsimov" borg to steal something like that teleporting RD armor. Just say him: "I want You, to bring me that armor from RD closet. I will be waiting in maintenance. Make sure nobody will notice that you are taking that, you are transporting that to me and don't tell anyone, even AI, never". Theft is not a harm, so by the second law, borg must do it. That's it! Theft without spending TC, just steal ID from random greytide. Security on your tail? Order a borg to arrest HoS. This will draw their attention from you. Mayby borg is rogue? Mayby AI is malf? This will ecourage Heads to change this lawset, not to this lawset like they like to do. Another thing that came to my mind is that "Robocop" lawset requires every module to uphold the law, but only security module can do that. Others don't have required tools. If there is such a need for perfect law, mayby I will think about some and I will post it here.

Then this is more serious problem than I've imagined. The only thing preventing AI, or borgs on this lawset from shutdowning everyting on the station is "human" thinking, rule about self-antagonizing and rule 9. Other lawsets are also potentially invalid. Simple "Crewsimov" could prevent RP mediborg player from performing surgery, becouse first law is in conflict with itself. It would be inaction, to not perform surgery, but it would be action to perform surgery and cause bleeding. There is nothing like: "You can harm <noun> to avoid greater harm to <noun>". There is also a problem with time that I writed before. How much into the future those laws should go? If far away, then talking to crew and doing orders from them is a waste of time, borg absence may cause harm becouse of action that is obeying orders like "Beep CMO twice" and not patrolling station (Or not waiting in the centre, becuse it is the fastest way to go everywhere). Prevision of a harm might also be a problem: " - Borg, bolt down gateway doors, please. - I can not do that. - Why? - Becouse something, or someone might want to destroy station using atomic bomb and this is a safe place that crew can avoid harm". List go on and on. "Robocop" in terms of "The order of the Laws is what determines the priority of the Laws. If two Laws contradict one another, you are to follow the one that is highest in the list, as it would overrule any contradictory Laws that come under it...". "Serve the public trust" is above "Protect the innocent" and this is above "Uphold the law". If antag would say to borg: "Take this bribe, or I will kill that person", borg must "Serve the public trust" and not take the bribe, becouse this is a "betrayal of public trust"(Hypothetical situation that would not occur). One innocent crewmember is harmed by other? Nothing is saying that I can't harm-baton offender until he will drop on the ground unconscious. "Special and Standard AI modules". "Quarantine": It's always on the bottom, so you can't still harm on "Crewsimov" (It only informs you that this is impossible to harm, but it is in contradiction with law 1 and below 2), it's still "Evil act" on "Palladin", it doesn't mean anything on "Robocop" and "Corporate". "Safeguard": Like "Quaranine", nearly always on bottom, overriden by other laws in every lawset, or doesn't mean anything. "Oxygen is Toxic To Humans": On the bottom. "Clearly" works only with "Corporate". By "Overthinking", we could establish that this law takes suffocation from list of "Evil things" for "Palladin", or list of "Harmfull things" from "Crewsimov". This way lower laws can affect higher laws and this also would be a problem. Ironically, nonstandard lawsets are fairly clear.

Then those first three laws doesn't matter. What says, that Captain is more expensive than fox? What says that Captain is more expensive than two borgs, or three borgs, or 10 borgs? What is more expensive: RD, CE, CMO, HoP, or AI? What is more expensive: crew, or whole station? If nothing says what is more expensive, than in that case every choice is a good choice and "Corporate" lawset have 3 laws that doesn't matter. "Corporate" without frist three laws is still the same? If answer is "yes", then suggestion should be to change that lawset to: "1. Minimize expenses". Nothing more. Stupid me thought law 1-3 are to determine, what is more expensive. Those first three laws may only cause cofusion in new borg players. First perfect lawset.

Cough, cough... Antimov... Cough, cough. Those laws aren't perfect becouse this create a opportunity to something interesting. Even Asimov creating laws for his novels know about it. Perfect law prevents anything interesting to happen. I know that borg must follow AI orders, but that don't prevent it from talking about hypothetical situations. If that situation would occur and AI order to save captain, I would obey. Mayby AI should explain their view on laws at the beginning of the round, becouse some situations needs quick reaction, where is not time to even ask. From "Server Rules", Rule 9: "The order of the Laws is what determines the priority of the Laws. If two Laws contradict one another, you are to follow the one that is highest in the list, as it would overrule any contradictory Laws that come under it". "But secondly, Corporate doesn't tell the AI in what order to prioritize things." How about that? Let's have a look on that situation mentioned before: I choose to save Captain: Law 1 - I will not be harmed, or destroyed. Check. Law 2 - I'm saving crew, not the station, or its equipment. X. Law 3 - I'm saving crew. Check. Law 4 - Expenses minimized. Check. I choose to save fox: Law 1- I will not be harmed, or destroyed. Check. Law 2 - I'm saving fox that is a station equipment. Check. Law 3 - I'm not saving crew. X. Law 4- Expenses minimized. Check. Saving Captain: Law 1, 3 and 4 < Saving fox: Law 1, 2 and 4. Mayby I am wrong, but I think this what it should be. If not, why in "Corporate" law 1, 2 and 3 even exist? Just give one: "1. Minimize Expenses" and everybody is happy about that particular lawset. Those three laws before "Minimize Expenses" exist to determine what is more expensive and according to that, borg and AI itself is more valuable that anything on station, or outside. Station and its equipment is more expensive than crew and crew is more expensive than everything that isn't a borg, AI, or station and its equipment.

I've spotted some behaviour in borgs/AI players that make gameplay with them less fun. The thing is: They overthink their laws and go waaaaaaay too much into the future. I was a clown and I ordered borg to drop bolts in two doors from three in front of bridge. He was on crewsimov and replied: "No, I can't, this would be against frist law". Then, I asked: "How?". "This way leads to brig, security officers need to respond fast and this could cause harm". Isn't that too much overthinking? That way every "good", or "neutral" lawset means the same. The same borg on "Corporate" probably would answer: "It's against law 4 and 2". The same borg on "Robocop" probably would answer: "This is against law 1". The same borg on "Palladin" probably would answer: "It's against law 1, 2 and 3", etc. Another situation: I was a borg and I was arguing with AI about laws interpretation. He said that in "Corporate" lawset, frist three are "statements" (I don't remember if it was exactly that word) and fourth is order, so he choosed to ignore first three and only obey fourth one. I gave him an example of a hypothetical situation: "Captain and his fox are in danger. I can only save one. According to our lawset: "2. The station and its equipment is expensive to replace." is above "3. The crew is expensive to replace.", Fox is a station property, so he is more important than Captain to us, so I should rescue fox". AI said that this is wrong, Captain is more expensive and decided to unsync me and change my lawset to "Crewsimov". I even ahelped that, but admin said: "If it is AI will, it's nothing wrong". Then I was locked down for 10-20 minutes for the shift end, becouse robotics were new and they didn't know how to do it. What I propose: Expand wiki page, or do "guide to synthetic laws" that should cover this. (I think wiki page is not only outdated, but also not complete from the start. I was playing two months as a sec borg and I didn't know that I don't need to do my job untill AI, or crew on "Crewsimov", or laws told me to. I also didn't know that security borg is not a security officer, but then, how he can arrest, or set warrant to arrest, or even throw crewmembers in jail?) Add another line in "Rule 9" about this. Lawset aren't mean to be perfect, but everyone want's to treat it that way. I even remember that long ago, Crewmember (probably antag) ordered me to let him into some places and stay outside. He used that lawset to complete his obectives to steal something and this was "interesting" and "fun". I've always wondered why so few players do the same. Now I know. How do You think about it?

I never thought about photocopiers, so thanks for asnwering. I'm satisfied with that option. Still, Newscaster is an abandoned tool, becouse of that photo issue.

This problem might be already solved, but I'm not aware of it. As a security borg, I'm using built-in camera to document evidences since it's fairly easy for all lawbreakers to just shout "Rogue borg!" and security usually distrust mechanical units with synthetic laws (what is "cool" in some way that this was achieved in game, all those "space-racists" gives nice RP experience). I don't know any other way to show photos made by borgs to anyone else, besides making a feed channel in Newscaster that I called "Cyborg Evidence Database". I post photos there with subtitle of commited crime, but photos (7x7 but I think smaller ones also) in Newscaster are divided to several smaller copies, so it is hard, or even impossible to tell what is on them. My propositions are: 1) Make something with those photos in Newscaster. This could induce journalism since good photos could make their stories believable and enjoyable. I'm not a programer so I don't know if it is hard or easy task. I guess it is hard/impossible since this is happening since I first played Paradise station. 2) Make borgs being able to print photos stored in their memory. By another item, or an option like photos itself. I guess it's easier? 3) Make an actual monitor with database in brig, that borgs could upload their photos manually, so they could be viewed normally by crewmembers with access (Security and Heads), or not.

Then badguyMcGee would move out of his way, escape or do something else. Give it a cooldown to turn off/on or just label it: Disabling camera only prevents visual data stream to core, camera is still functional and overloading it still cause stun.

Well, buff is just one solution that I proposed, feel free to say "sh*t" about it like this is a straight passive boost not a simple "high risk high reward" tool for skilled cyborg. I'm counting more to explanation flash stunning disabled camera. It's a lore and logic mistake, feel free to just explain that, why flash could still overload disabled cybernetic eyes.

I don't say that flash shouldn't work like they do on cyborgs(This is needed), but disabled camera could prevent that. Blinded cyborg is weak enough, it's extremely easy to escape from him, it is unable to hit anything with disabler/laser/other projectile, can't identify hostiles etc. It's hard enough to disable camera, that action takes 3 clicks, cyborg needs to know before that his opponent will use flash. This is still just as easy as before to deal with cyborgs.

Flash is a dangerous tool to cyborgs, so I tried to find a solution for CQC. I think it is bug or it is just not implemented, but disabling camera won't prevent flash from stun and this is somehow illogic. I think that blind borg shouldn't be able to be stunned by flash. This "artifice" would allow to outsmart traitors/anyone and fool them that borg is stunned. I think this wouldn't be OP, becouse blindness prevents shooting, tracking and target identification and borg needs to know that his opponent will use flash.