Medi

@Shadeykins Any thoughts or input? Aside from 1, maybe 2, admins- no one seems to be giving input despite clear community support being present. At least from a wiki stand-point we really haven't had any progress or at least no one seems interested to actually do anything. As far as in game changes there's been a lot of posturing but, again, no action.

Picture added!

Cats and Dogs are similar but different. I can see some of this working for them but- To what extent?

For the sake of compromise: 1. Allow for the Culture, Anatomy, and Lore updates to Wiki (or at least advocate that to whoever does get to change these things). 2. Consider allowing them to eat raw meat (iffy on the chocolate thing but I can go either way with it). 3. Consider polling for some public opinion on certain abilities and disabilities for races so we can see what people are actually interested in (if anything) and we can play the genetics balancing act associated with it relatively easily while making the public happy, making things dynamically different, and potentially making the changes easy and controllable for admins.

I would be interested to see what people thought about Just shoes for Vulps but adding in another mechanic like them being able to eat raw meat, or something, safely. I already discussed why they could do that.

True, however, too little uniqueness and it creates a logical question of: "Are these two things different?" I personally dont see it as a tedious task but as something that inherently is a core disadvantage that can be easily worked around. If you want to balance it out, make them slightly faster (like 1-2%) as it would make sense on multiple levels and would also be a good way to balance out the issues with changing footwear (which is something I rarely do during a shift anyway unless I'm equipping mag boots or something, thus my spawn shoes are usually fine.)

Thankfully, I am more than open to compromise as my last suggestion didn't even really mention keeping the brute damage as a thing. Really, what I am suggesting is more lore for their race, some elaboration on practical anatomy, and potential changes to perhaps how they wear shoes in game (I know that one would be a more uphill battle.) I think it's a bit of a mistake to, as I said earlier, leave them labeled as a 'dog person' and not elaborate on them because of either the nature of the game or because we don't find reason to do so. Yes they are alien, yes they are strange, but adding in lore only makes the characters more believable and on a server that endorses RP that's part of the necessary backbone. There are a few species such as IPCs, Vox, etc that play extremely differently then humans. People play those species for the reason that they are different and offer a unique experience to how they approach the gameplay from both an RP standpoint and a technical one. Leaving the Vulps (and to an extent the other races) being pseudo humans just makes it less appealing given that there are more fleshed out races with lore and such to choose from. So on a station that promotes RP, even in a soft sci-fi setting, making the species more detailed and believable makes sense from a core gameplay perspective.

@Shadeykins @Kyet Any decisions on this?

I frankly wouldn't mind it for at least the feet.

So, new list of suggestions: - Update the wiki to reflect the following: 1. Non-FTL space capabilities with moderate reflectance to explore outside of the system. Terraforming capabilities present and used. 2. Revise anatomy to reflect finding noted. Blood vessels in ears are not necessary, single eye colorblindness as it would mean we wouldn't have to change anything, still debating the chest but I see nothing wrong so long as we elaborate on the organs (not for damage reasons), ability to eat raw meat, stronger liver, digigrade nature. 3. Discuss culture to reflect society norms, etc. - Potential in game updates? 1. Digigrade would require a lot of changes to the point they'd have to start with feet wrap (already in game) and job specific footwear in their inventory or have a means of modifying it to allow for vulps to wear. 2. Allow for the consumption of raw meat without penalty.

Fair enough, that really doesn't change to much so it's extremely workable.

Then they're in our modern age as far as it is concerned for technology. It's completely workable.

I mean, you can expand upon that to state that they're more akin to our modern setting, hunting and trapping with more advanced means like firearms and such. I think for their species to make sense in the grand theater of what's going on, space flight needs to be something that is out of their reach or something they don't practice. The reasoning for this is that it really enhances the whole concept of Why they weren't around sooner without making them like the Unathi and xenophobic. If anything, NT can be written in as being beneficial to the survival of the race as they would likely have to assist in some capacity with them relocating (for the modest fee of their continued services).

Well, obviously. While I don't believe this is entirely true it's a factor. However, from a gameplay standpoint that doesn't justify non giving them diversity from other species on the station. I don't need bluespace mumbo-jumbo to justify a description as there are some biological necessities. Just because they're depicted to look like 'furries' we are suppose to not care about them at all? That doesn't seem to make a ton of sense. Look at the Vox for example: They're crazy space birds. They've to a ton of justification to them. We didn't just call it at: "Here have a bird person" and walk away.

Well, per the apparent creator they're suppose to have digitigrade legs so that would make sense for them to have tails it's just a bit harder for them to wear shoes is all.

Given what you said and, from what is apparently a bastardized version of the original concept boiled down to what would have made sense, I see no reason not to push for some kind of reform since they're popular enough now. Done correctly, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to implement at least some of the ideas. I get your core concept though: They're not space/earth doggos and that's why I am trying to diversify them and making them more 'alien' in nature. That being said: give some bullet points to things that you feel are practical and could change.

Frankly, as someone who plays a vulp, I don't think they'll mind the footwear thing too much. It wouldn't be the greatest sin. Also with the organs? It's light damage, I'm asking for realistically 3-5% with Heavy brute damage. If some greytide wacks you with a pack of cigarettes it shouldn't pop a lung. Now if you took a tool box to the chest, I think a small amount of organ trauma in the chest is both realistic, non-debilitating, and fair. In all honesty, your chest is more likely to be cracked then your organs compromised from the trauma in the long run. Plus, given the differences, toxin damage to him lasts a lot less long so the trade-offs kinda work anyway. The whole flash thing, I discussed it and if anything you could reduce that if they accepted my suggestion of the whole "one eye" fix. I think my biggest deal was just giving Vulp some love when you compare it to literally any other wiki, especially the Vox. The Vulps are written off as "Here have a space dog" while the Vox have this intricate system (that doesn't delve too deep into their actual biology but thats okay) for their entire wiki's basis.

Having gone back to talk with my friend about this, these are the following suggestions: 1. Amend wiki for ears and eyes. 2. Brute chest trauma = light organ damage. 3. Either digitigrade (remove ability to wear shoes and give them the foot wraps except for things like mag boots etc) or remove tails. 4. Amend wiki in regards to their culture and such.

It has plenty of non-antag uses. In fact, it's more often used for teleporting people around the station between the departments then it is used for 'antag' purposes. As I previously stated, there's only a handful of jobs that kind of promote the use of teleportation. Within those jobs even LESS people use them who potentially could.

Simply amending a lot of the wiki would resolve this and maybe adding organ damage to brute chest trauma. It would make them more alien. As far as tails are concerned, if it's a part of their spine it would be light enough to work I believe.

If it was spinally based then it would make Some sense given that its part of the language.

NOTE: I am not writing this out of hate but out of a desire to fix the race so that they're not just "dog people". So I have an artist friend who deals a lot with animals, anthropology, and such and I asked them to draw my character. When attempting to explain what a Vulp is, I used the Wiki article and that's when we both discovered that there are some things that definitely need explained if this race is going to be anything other then "Dog Person". I have a background in medicine so we put our heads together and came up with a few things to point out. Based on their anatomy and physiology we determined that prior to NT finding them they were likely a hunter-gatherer society that likely had some amount of farming capability but primarily relied on tools and ambush tactics. This idea is supported by the fact that they have low light vision, opposable thumbs, and plantigrade feet which would not make them very fast in comparison to something like an actual dog. Their ribs are apparently fused in a web-like lattice structure. This structure, we deduced, has to be relatively flexible not only to suit their ambush tactics but if it was rigid, they'd have more 'barrel chested' appearances. Additionally, having this lattice like structure would actually give them more blood flow then a human (as humans have bundles of veins and arteries tucked under each rib in a small notch) since blood flow can go and reach just about anywhere in the chest cavity without major obstruction. This would require them to have rather tough lungs to help push up against their own chest. As far as organs are concerned, it is noted that they have two primary differences to humans: 1. A two chambered stomach. 2. A 'special' liver. Ill discuss these later. Their face will have to have center focused eyes (like a human) that don't offer as great of a field of vision as a prey would have. In addition, due to their overall structure and nature they can probably smell very well but at the cost of requiring them to have strong muzzles. Their jaws, on the other hand, don't need to be as strong nor do their necks as they don't appear to need to be able to hold thrashing animals in their teeth, thus their teeth aren't too tough in comparison to humans. Here are the things that we feel need to either be clarified or otherwise changed as to make the race actually make some means of practical sense. If Atlam was a temperate world, why the increased blood flow to the ears? You wouldn't need greater thermo-regulation in a temperate environment, regardless of how 'big' their ears are it's otherwise excessive. If you're saying it's an evolutionary adaptation, it's been about 4 generations since they've moved and become space fairing, that's very fast evolution by anyone's standards and while variances in height might be possible in that time, developing entire networks of collateral blood flow in ears to accommodate space? Color blindness and correction. The reason why a lot of creatures are colorblind is because they've got an advantage in light conditions that we as humans (who see more color) don't have. Most wild animals are able to see in low light areas which increases their ability to hunt. As we already mentioned, we're pretty sure that they were ambush predators who relied on hunting so them having relative color blindness in favor of low-light visibility makes sense. What doesn't make sense is if it's later corrected, they should, in theory, lose the ability to see in the dark as effectively as they previously could. Possible solution: Only one eye is usually fixed. The brain will be able to bridge the gap and fill in the color blindness while also allowing them to retain their low light visibility. Chest cavity. Due to how their chest is made up, it's got to be more flexible then a humans. This would be a lot more akin to our floating ribs due to their overall requirement of flexibility and allowing expansion during inhalation. The ribs, in conjunction with the muscles of the chest, would support them taking breaths in and would also do decent jobs protecting their chests from slashing damage but would be relatively shit at protecting them from blunt trauma. This is due to the fact that, unlike a human's semi-rigid chest thanks to the presence of a sternum, they have nothing but a flexible chest that prioritizes supporting their stream-like design rather then being protective and thus take more organ damage from blunt trauma. Organs. While their heart is likely 4 chambered, lungs will have to be different in the sense that they're more tough and able to support moving their chest in a uniform motion as they draw in a breath. Otherwise, the muscles on their chest have to be rather significant as they're always relying on these (what would be to a human 'accessory') muscles to help move their chest in a meaningful way. Additionally, their stomach is two chambered apparently? We actually figured this is reasonable if they're able to consume raw meat. We're aware that creatures like bears are able to do both with a single chambered stomach but we realized that while the stomach is very strong in a bear, it requires a ton of intestines to help support its large structure as the whole system is generally inefficient when compared to the relatively compact design we're going for here. Thus, the stomach should be noted to probably be able to handle raw meat a lot better then most other crew members could be able to. What about the specialized "vulpkanin liver" as when a vulp is gibbed, it's even denoted as such? Well that thing has to support a very fast metabolism which makes since with the +11% loss to hunger. In turn, medications, toxins, and food should all be processed quickly though the body but remain for very brief amounts of time. For example, if you give a vulp and a human the same med: The vulp will have the medicine activate sooner and end sooner then the human would by a significant amount. This means that vulp may require more medication to heal them then most crew. The issue with the tails: Since they're plantigrade creatures they are able to enjoy all the benefits that humans do with their hands and feet, like the ability to be bipedal, climb, pick things up, wear clothes, etc. Since their so plantigrade why have the tails in the first place? Tails are usually used as a means of providing some amount of balance to a creature as it moves in some form or fashion. Cats use it to turn while running and falling. Now, their tails do have some use in the way of communicating in their language as well as playing a role in their overall body language. Where this doesn't make sense is that their tail has a similar bone structure to a limb rather than a usual tail? Monkeys, dogs, cats, etc all have tails that are essentially part of their spines and play an active role in such. They are, thanks to their spinal nature, light weight and generally easy to control in some form or fashion. Vulps apparently have a bone structure more akin to a limb? For a vulp to wag their tail as they do in game, that means that we know it's at least greater than one to two bones (likely closer to around three to six at least) because the more long bones present, the less flexible and able to 'wag' the tail. This means that not only is their tail Heavy due to the bone presence but the flexibility required to communicate would be staunched greatly. Simple fix: have it as a part of their spine. Makes it light weight, non-weight bearing (can't pick shit up with them), but able to be controlled to some degree that would make it essential for communication. Simple fixes: Amend the wiki and potentially give them more organ damage as a result of blunt trauma to the chest.

Let me guess, you were the AI that had Complete control of the station and was antagging rather hard, locking down the station, threatening miners and command staff and someone barely managed to get a GPS on the core so that they could use the Station Objective BSA to blast you since we couldn't get close. I get the whole "This doesn't seem fair" concept as I had my own rant against double-eswords and syndicate hardsuits being neigh invincible, but telescience without a GPS requires a TON of math that isn't exactly grade school. In addition, only a number of people have the resources to even set up such. If anything, adding a tiny amount of randomization as a possibility might balance this out but for the most part, telescience is only rarely used offensively and doesn't ever seem to be a problem since it was taken away as a department within science.

From THE Wolf O'freaking Shaw that is an honor.

Name: Tahtechghzthbis 'Lich' Lichzandtzwichslich Age: 24 Gender: Male Race: Vulpkanin Blood Type: O- General Occupational Role(s): [Command] Nanotrasen Representative Head of Personnel [Security] Detective Security Officer [Medical] Surgeon Paramedic Geneticist Psychiatrist [Engineering] Atmospheric Technician Station Engineer [Science] Plasma Researcher Xeniobiologist Reluctant RND Biography: Believed to be born somewhere in Vezzend, little records were submitted to Nanotrasen upon the initial hiring of 'Lich' and his sister Tazkirakatek 'Kira' Lichzandtzwichslich. Immigration records confirm that both Lich and his sister left Vezzend at an early age with a large group of other immigrants that were bound for the Sol System. Lich and Kira were noted as being the only individuals on the craft sharing their last names and neither seem to be willing or able to share information regarding their parents or family history. Upon arriving in the Sol System, Lich and his sister ultimately went different directions despite their young ages. While records indicate that Kira sought after formal schooling, Lich appeared to develop a certain "Wanderlust" and spent a number of years traveling as a result. Coincidentally, Lich ended up working in a number of jobs at various locations throughout the system while traveling. On paper, Lich's arrival to any particular area generally seemed to herald some sort of disaster that potentially suggested him intentionally causing chaos where-ever he went. Mr. Changs - Employment: Vendor Technician - Dismissed after a mass insurrection of mal-functioning vendors. EDIT: Exonerated after it was determined that a silent ion storm passed through the areas coincidentally after he had left, causing an AI revolution. Einstein Engines Inc - Employment: Fuel Technician - Dismissed after a mass FTL compromise resulting in several injuries and millions of dollars of damage to various stations and ships. EDIT: Exonerated after an internal investigation determined the cause was a space rat falling into a fuel mixture and compromising the integrity. BioTech Solutions - Employment: Augmentation Specialist - Dismissed after an incident only referred to as the 'Wild Hand' incident. EDIT: Exonerated after animal autopsy reports and lab studies determined that multiple power surges caused by a manager plugging in an old toaster were the suspected cause. Trans - Solar Federation - Employment: Local Level System Bureaucrat - Dismissed after what was described as a 'mass paperwork collection error' occurred. EDIT: Exonerated after multiple eye-witness reports confirming the presence of a still notorious 'Hulk Monkey'. Any information regarding a large, green monkey should be immediately reported to your local Trans-Solar Federation Law Enforcement center. Nanotrasen - Employment: Detective / Security Officer - Dismissed after <REDACTED>. EDIT: See Trans-Solar Investigation <REDACTED> for further information. All charges dismissed, re-employment offered as compensation. Following the incident on <REDACTED> , Lich spent a brief stint in jail while awaiting the outcome of the investigation, and potential trial. Due to the outcome of the investigation, no charges were pressed but Lich did not immediately accept the offer to return to the work force. For approximately one standard year, no records exist of Lich as it is assumed he went into a brief period of hiding. When asked, he and his sister both simply state that he required 'time away'. Lich returned and began obtaining formal education before re-contracting with Nanotrasen, as no other companies were apparently willing to hire him and the court arbitration decision still remained in effect. Qualifications: Formal Medical Education from Sol University. Minor in Business Administration from Sol University. Security Credentials (EXPIRED) from Nanotrasen. Atmospherics and Engineering Certification from BioTech Solutions. Employment Records: -Initial Employment Physical: Above-Average. - Subject assigned to Security. - Subject Reassigned to Detective. Assigned to <REDACTED> Investigation. - Subject Dismissed following Incident Number <REDACTED>. - Re-Employment mandated by Court Arbitration following outcome of investigation. -Re-Employment Physical: Minimal Standards Met. - Extensive Vocal Cord Damage noted during evaluation. - Subject referred to Medical. Security Records: See Incident Number: <REDACTED> Medical Records: - Referred from Employment Screening. - Laryngeal Atrophy noted upon video laryngoscopy. PT appears to have no difficulty breathing or otherwise maintaining his airway at this time. No esophageal or tracheal abnormalities noted. Extensive damage caused by infrequent exercise of larynx has resulted in the likelihood that the PT will never be able to speak Canilunzt but may be able to speak Galactic Common with appropriate Rehabilitation efforts. - Due to a series of unfortunate events and lack of compliance from the PT, efforts to restore the PT's speech have been ineffective. The PT has been noted to be able to speak one-two words at max before the potential for laryngeal trauma becomes significant. Personnel Photo (Appearance text): Standing at six foot, one inch; Lich is a snow-white vulp with dark grey hair atop his head and an average build. Lich can usually be seen fussing with his hair in some form or fashion. Due to this, It's not uncommon for his hair to look completely different from one shift to another, or for him to attempt to hide it from view with a hat. Lich's eyes generally have a 'tired' look to them regardless of the amount of sleep he has. Lich's face appears to be overtly animated yet has a 'sharp' look due to the anatomy of his muzzle. Lich is never seen within a PDA or a stack of papers somewhere on his person and a pen tucked neatly behind an ear. Likely due to not speaking, Lich is very often seen using his hands to speak for him, and is rather animated in their usage. Lich's Reference Picture: Commendations [only to be added by admin]: Reprimands [only to be added by admin]: Other Notes: Lich's theme song: Humility by Gorillaz feat. George Benson Common Pronunciation of his name: Tah-Tech-Giz-The-Bis Lich-Zand-Switch-Slich Lich is left handed. Lich's favorite color is Blue. Due to a number of previous accidents, Lich has an irrational fear of cows. According to him this has nothing to do with his lactose intolerance. In contrast to him, Lich's sister Kira has fiery red hair. It's heavily implied that one point or another, Lich learned Russian although he obviously doesn't speak it. While only having his major incident with NT in his security record, Lich has been arrested over thirty times by Sol Gov for various things but has never formally been sentenced to prison for anything. Lich one time payed 300,000 credits to WinterOS to visit its core and to have his friend attacked by the cleaning droids. Where Lich appears to be a walking ball of bad luck to himself and occasional the environment around him; Lich's sister Kira is known for being extremely fortunate in most things she does. Lich defines himself as an Avellonist, a rather simplistic philosophy that if you want to know about you'll have to ask him. He is married to Mariya Lichzand-Sankinov. Lich claims to have played a role in the creation of Fun Fact and Fun Fact 2.0, he usually give some sorta legal jargon rather promptly about him not being responsible for anything that it tells you about or to do.