Monstrant

I just wanted to shoot in a quick comment about karma. I think it would be useful to prevent karma from being updated DURING the round, and rather have it apply after the round is over/when shuttle docks. In that case, it would be possible to change your mind about karma later in the round, and give it to someone else.

i think thats all we need to know.

Its not just a nerf to antags. Its a nerf to anyone who ever has to deal with greyshits and stuff. Imagine the horror of being a sec officer, or head. Sure you can stun them, but they ll get up soon enough because you move like a turtle.

1) Be a sling 2) Veil OR Light and Glare the shit out of doc. 3) Cuff em. 4) Press the button 5) profit

Well I have a suggestion. First off increase round start revs. There are like 2-3 heads + 6-10 revs depending on population. They get access to limited syndie gear with rev heads having more tc than a traitor (25-30) and a normal rev having very little TC (4-8) Note: If feels too op we can remove the normal rev TC. The TC is shared for all however to access it they must to build a computer/uplink which one of the rev heads has a circuit for. The revs CANNOT convert normal greyshits anymore ( Note: we can implement so that players who are excesively grey tidey cannot be converted). The heads have a list of "potential" revolutionaries, The likely hood of being a rev recruit is dependent upon NT Relation ( the one in character creation menu. Maybe make it a little useful.) They are the only ones who can be converted and their number is dependent on server pop. ( Ideally rev should not be more than 15-18 people) Each of them will give TC to the revolution. It reduces validhunt as the rev heads are not going to convert anyone passing by, thereby increasing their chance of being discovered. It also makes the rev act a lot lot sneakier. I d also suggest adding some rules like no bombs stronger than 1/2 bomb cap OR they can only use syndie miniboms. Rev equipment choice is less than that of a traitor. With them being geared towards traps, sneak and weak but silent weapons ( guerilla warfare )

this and this seem contradictory to me. However I shall leave it to your intepretation.

I1.Excuse me, correct me again if I am wrong. But isnt intent quite an important bit in one's actions? Your very own Staff Guidelines mention intent as being a divisor between a temporary ban and a permanent one. Please, from what you are saying, I think that you feel that your intent CANNOT be wrong. Which is wrong. I know I can be wrong here due to my short experience, I know my intent may be wrong because it would be easier for me to just not give a damn about an ingame mechanic I rarely use. However you do not seem to feel in the same way. I may be wrong here again, but even Staff are human. 2. I am not persay arguing that the intent is wrong. Rather "imperfect". Or, I may even be arguing that it is not the intent which is wrong. As I may just as well be arguing that the Staff's intepretation of intent is wrong. A minor QoL update which is not hugely beneficial (4% of the surgeries Twinmold said?) still is quite nice. Its the continued "walling" of the ideas which is wrong. The intent is not to let Carbons and Cyborgs be equal, or Cyborgs more powerful than Humans. Well the organ manipulators are not going to quite make the difference would they? Pardon me, meant in a non sarcastic way, but where? Quite frankly no. It is you are who are projecting the infallible trust into players by believing they CANNOT possibly be not satisfied with your intended design. What I said was not an opinion, it was a fact. Because no matter what you say until all posibilites have been tried there is no way of knowing what is truly the best, what would serve the player satisfaction most. Since you are rejecting any kind of investigation into the matter there is no way you can state and claim what you have claimed. ( No sarcasm here is meant. And no rudeness either. If you see some I am sorry but I honestly did not notice it, ) That is your right to only serve soup. However we can try different kinds of soup cant we? Then, if your intent is not the best, how can you claim that it is an opinion that there can be better ways? ( I am referring to the earlier point where you have called something I said an opinion. ) A logical fallacy as it seems to me. I will adress these later, unless you wish to lock the thread ofcourse. So you do agree, that traitors counter cyborgs ridiculously easy? ------- In the end Tully: If we can change things it does not mean we should Me: If we can change things it does not mean we shouldnt And I perfectly understand that. It is a very stable position and risking something new after so much effort and work have been put into making cyborgs what they are now, is quite silly as it seems to the Staff. They finally follow their "intent" there is no reason to spend more resources on balancing these. And that is your right to do so and I understand that. As Socrates said "Is it truly a problem, or a matter of perception?" In this case I think the latter. My perception is inadvertedly different to yours as we see the world differently, from different heights. Tully I am not a radical advocating for hands, all I wanted to do by engaging in this conversation is not even giving the Cyborgs ability to do the remaining "4%" of the surgeries. No, I am trying to say that... ugh I dont even know... What am I truly trying to say? Be softer? More accepting? Well, that is not going to work. However I really, really wish for you to reconsider regarding these minor QoL suggestions Varlun has been making. I kindly ask you to give others more regard( not that you were rude no, not in that sense) (It probably seems very hipocritical to you that I am saying this to you, but that is mostly due to how I write. I am not as convinced on the issue as you are. The main reason I got behind this is to find out how the Staff thinks and this was very helpful. I can now understand which suggestions to make better than before. I recognize your viewpoint.) P.S Again, if any part of this seems rude or hostile, it is not, at least that was not my intent to make it like that.

I am afraid if you feel that way, you ll have to deal with it. They don't need to care as it is their server. However wrong we may find it, there are some forces which under current power structures cannot be challenged, and you run into one of them, property. So before you say something that will get you banned as I can understand that you are getting more and more frustrated, please reconsider and think rationally.

We are basically running in circles at this point. There is no reason to try to change server's direction a little or not try not to change it. Although as stated earlier this is not a democracy which I understand. Yet I suggest that we open another thread with poll which asks about this issue. There you must contribute an opinion paired with a vote regardging the issue INDEPENDENT of others. That thread is not going to be another discussion thread, its a forum where basically you either write your own form of opinion or vote for somebody else using karma system ( I am talking about the opinion comments themselves not the poll ) As the dmin team correctly pointed out, older players do have a privelege of understanding the game better, Such resolution counts that in. In no way am I suggesting for this poll to be binding to the admins. Just an advisory referendum of sorts.

Correction, I am not advocate for hands. Organ manipulators which allow to be completed. I am arguing that administration should try to be a little bit more open minded. I feel that some cyborgs are over powered like security ones. If I am not in science I have almost no way of dealing with these without EMP kit which is frankly quite expensive (Well i have other things to use TC for)

Have you considered that perhaps the intent was wrong? Maybe, a big maybe, that would be better, we can roll back any time. There is nothing preventing us from trying. The "end goal" does NOT have to be the end. Its about must and must nots in this case. I believe we can give it a try. Well have you considered that the merit of this idea is, the failure of your intent when designing the robots? That there is a better way? The end goal here, so to speak, is both player and admin satisfaction and there is no way except practically estabilishing through an investigation which idea truly serves the end goal the best. Then what is the point of having a dialogue? "Well we dont care, we have a vision, which we think is the best" Without a doubt you are the owners so you have the right to decide what is the going to happen or not. But what you think is the best, is not necessarily the best. You seem to have a great passion/like pick your word, for scientific method Tully, so why dont we conduct a study to find what would be truly the best?(this is not an ad hominem, I just saw your statistics posts, thats where I got the idea from ) The argument here is that there is too much weak, too little strong. Despite facing indefinite disadvantages on multiple levels some players feel that there could be a better way to handle this "balance scales" situation.

But there is no reason to try against that? Maybe it will work? Maybe the players will like it? Its not that big of an issue to let medborgs complete organ surgeries and implantations. As I said I need to be able to do MY job fully because I cannot do anything else.

Why was the decision made, that server should move that way? Can we hear a justification with evidence for that decision? I am not a sillicon player but I do it now and then. I find that medborgs are lacking. Maybe some QoL for engineering one and sec service borg but thats all. I find sec borgs over powered if I am not in science. I am not for giving them hands in any way. However I do agree the medborg needs some ups. The policy being followed here directly violates principle of equivalent exchange. A human is a jack of all trades who is truly able to do all. They can be a doctor an engineer you pick. They are not restrained by a kit. As a cyborg I should be able to fully do MY job because i cannot do OTHER jobs like humans. I get -No Free Will -No Flexibility -No Easy Recharge -No Easy Stun Recovery -Additional Upgrades +Immunity to Theft +Spessproff +Chem immunity. (IPCs also have it yet they are not considered over powevered for some reason. Oh yes because they are balanced) Thats all I can think off. If I want to be a super doctor or at least a normal fully functional doctor why cannot I not be one even though I effectively slaved myself? Why does the staff think it would be bad for that to happen?

I once had the wolololo staff and converted a greyshirt since he was my target. He suggested a plan which would kill and grind sec in the disposals. I have agreed just for fun. In the end the plan failed and I got captured. The thrall did not die and sucessfuly lived through the slave. It would have been easier to just order them to kill themselves but I did not, in the end I got a worse result. It is simply not reliable to use more "fun" means of removing someone from the round. I ussually shard my target which both makes them non cloneable and allows them to remain in the round. The issue is not with the staff. Its the players. Just be on the lookout for the red big staff and you ll be alright. Many people dont actually know how the thing works so they often fail to properly react. I managed to convert 5 assistants and a chemist without a single problem. (It was for fun. I just gave them fun missions like stealing NT's Pen and Insulting CE) Edit: I also agree with @Enginseer-42. Happened to me as well.

I thought Barbers preffered throats.