Keppler

I will not that the "unable to blow borgs" was for hacked Malf borgs, which the AI has to choose to do. Once done borgs get hacked tools, and show up as unlinked. At that point they are not hiding. The borgs this has not been done to would still be able to be blown up.

I start with my thoughts on the matter, if you just want the pure suggestions, they are at the bottom, alongside my views on the code difficulty alongside the balance issues. The thoughts are where my suggestions come from, so if curious about them do take the read if you want. This is more a set of thoughts I have gathered over a while, and would want some feedback or alternate ideas on how to actually work around the issue. Secborgs are gone, not the biggest fan of that but there it is. Now then it remains what should be done about the borgs that remain. There are multiple issues as I see it, borg on human, or borg on borg combat usually comes down to who flashes the borg first, essentially making it a one hit kill. While flashes at least require proximity, laser pointers can do the same at a distance. This is not very fun for the borgs, especially not in the most extreme of cases where a Assault nukie borg is taken down by a toy and killed. Borg counters Secondly, there is the issue of borgs having few true counters, which I have heard a lot. You can disable a traitor, but it will not impact the borg. The few truly effective tools to stop one are flashes, laser pointers or ions. One I did not mention was the borg console, I will get back to it. The issue here is many players, especially with Secborgs, complained about few direct counters. In my mind this has fallen out, essentially there are four types of borgs you will ever face. ERT (Possibly sec) borgs, Nukie borgs, Malf borgs, and emagged borgs/subverted. Borgs that fight you other than this are usually on the wrong side of some rule. ERT and nukie borgs should in my mind not have easy one click counters, either use a ion or shoot them till they die. As in, removal of flashes working at all, or make them just blind the borgs. Laser pointer at least shouldnt do more than blind at most. Malf borgs should get some upgrades they can get that make them less prone to be dead so fast, but I will get back to that. Emagged borgs need to be destroyed to be fixed anyhow, so a ion for them or shooting them isnt so bad, and the borg control console exists. The same is true for badly lawed borgs. On Malfunctioning AI The "Malf" Ai is in a weird spot. It has some very powerful components, such as the bomb or the factory, and can also be destroyed by someone watching cameras. I believe that there are some reworks, which would come as buffs, that would make malf a lot more enjoyable for both crew and the synths. First of all the borg console, a AI hacked borg should not be able to be blown up from it. Making it still visibly hacked, but not being able to blow it up, removes a major "cryptonite" from the AI. If the consoles are no longer game over for the AI if they still exist, the eternal plasmabombing or blowing of Science isnt critical to the AIs, which in turn will allow more flexible gameplay on that front. Secondly the AI should get a borg improvement it can buy, that makes borg flash immune, where they just go blind but not unable to interact with things, or a similar upgrade. This could also concern ion rifles, where the borgs are still badly damaged by ions, but dont go down so long for instance. I do think ions remaing a cryptonite for borgs and AI is fitting, to some extent. EMPs should also be weakened in effect over syntetics, one proper EMP on the AI sat and its over. One QoL while at it. AI should get a internal borg control console within it, that works regardless of outside influences. This makes sense, as AIs can use such a console, and have a connection with their borgs anyhow, and as such should not need a external console to control its borgs. Suggestions in short -Nukie and ERT borgs either dont care about flashes, or become blind/unable to interact for a duration. Laser pointers dont impact them or make them blind -Emagged or subverted (read normal) borgs no longer get impacted by laser pointers outside of being blinded, flashes make them blind and unable to interact with things for a duration -Malfunctioning AIs get a borg upgrade that makes the borg less weak to ions/flashes, for instance by lowering time disabled, make them only blind and unable to interact (but can move) or something similar. -Malfunctioning AIs hacked borgs get immunity from the borg control console, this would not apply to non upgraded borgs, and they would still show in the list, just not being able to be blown up/locked down -AI get a internal borg control console Coding Difficulty -Some of these I can take a crack at myself, being a novice and all, I do believe the flashes and that stuff to be the harder issue to solve, but most of the code is already there for all of these suggestions, its mostly a matter of applying them to accomplish my suggestions. Scope -These suggestions target borgs, but would inevitably impact combat a lot, borg to borg or borg to crew combat mostly. Balance -This is in all honesty, if all suggestions are put in at the max strength, a big borg power boost. I will make it clear that these are suggestions, and for instance the timers for effect can be used to make it more balanced, or borgs less strong. Still, I am aware there is a certain unpopularity of borgs around here, so will be very open for arguments on the balance and rebalance this would possibly bring. Thanks for any response I do get, feedback is also always welcome.

My post concerns the stage at which cult has halos, but is not summoning, the time between when they get halos and when they summon, vary drasticly, but many rounds with halos end with a war of some kind. The rules do not allow a "war" between crew and halo cult, especially not lethally, unless the cult is summoning. The rules state this specifically in rule 8, with a very clear exception "This doesn't count against blobs, slaughter demons, nuke ops, wizards, terror spiders, xenos, swarmers, and cultists summoning their god. It's expected the whole crew fights these!", summoning cults. This remains from old cult, without halos. The halo message itself says nothing making it clear that crew are free to fight the cult by any means, or that they are free to seek it and fight it. Rules suggest otherwise. As such, I would ask for an update on the rules, a clarification on what the rules really are on halo cult, or a change to enforcement of it. The games I have seen with such a "war" pretty much all means are used, with cult being killed while they may be miles from summoning. If this is in fact in spite of laws, it happens in too big numbers to properly enforce, or is not enforced at the moment (From how it seems to happen often). I am on the side that I would not fight such a cult unless i am certain I am allowed, but I have seen many willingly fight it with lethal means, even as they are not summoning (Assistants, command even engis). All I ask is that what the rules actually mean in this stage of cult be clarified, or it be made clear in some other way.

Oh yeah, I see what ya meant, just thinking of how what some will think of as "issues".

As to the issue of tanks running out faster, I do not think there is an issue with this when it comes to big tanks, those run out way to slowly. (While perhaps being realistic, having a own O2 supply the whole shift is not ideal in balance means. Second the emergency tanks were always meant to be just that, emergency tanks. The stabilizer syringe in the emergency kit does not keep you alive long, and the emergency tank shouldnt either. As to Vox and others using own tanks, that is an issue of course, solutions I see would be to make the N2 tanks more available, change the amount of gas in them, or perhaps give them a lesser consumption of gas than O2 breathers.

I made this proposal, due the issue I see with Atmos mattering less and less in my favorite Atmos simulator. Some may of course object, but I am of the opnion that air and more specific, the lack of it should be a bigger issue, and an actual issue. I am open to different solutions of course, and objections you may have, or questions at that. All I ask is that ya openly consider how air seems like it does not matter much at all as it is now, and should be changed, perhaps not as i propose however. My main point is this, increase the consumption of O2 by a lot, to the degree that a room actually has the possibility of running out of air, as one should expect. First of all - Coding Difficulty: Upping consimption of O2 many notches should not (I hope) be hard to code, as it should be just a modifier one can turn up, do tell me if that is not the case however. Scope: The scope is both quite large, and quite small. Making O2 consumption higher will affect all (at least most, synthetics, vox and ipcs less however). It will also affect all kind of events where air is in any way less available, be that due to meteors affecting the oxygen supply, pipes being cut or rooms having a lot of people. Balance: As for balance, this would be a huge buff to the importance of atmos (this is a space game after all, so one would expect air to matter a lot). First, some reasons I think this would make it better: -O2 drain being a lot higher, means there is a chance for a room going out of air given some time, so for example welding vents do gain a drawback, as they should have. -Air is and should be a spessmans most precious commodity, and as such this provides for a whole new fear, that really isnt there now, for air going out. (This does exist in the manner of Atmos techs or Ai doing this, but draining air does not affect anyone much, neither does turning off the supply affect anyone at all unless there is a whole) -There is now a reason to make sure there is air in pipes, as well as to keep the pipenet intact, as continous flow is actually needed to sustain living conditions on station -Atmos would be a department that matters once more, cause they would guard something people actually cared for (And would be more than the TEG and hidden antag rooms department) -As it is, a hole to space isnt much of an issue, unless in maints where there is no vents, neither is it an issue to stack 50 people inside a pod, because the air inside is enough to sustain them for a long time, this would be changed, as it would run out, and if nothing else, the emergency O2 will be used a lot more. Bad effects: -Synthetics would in a way recieve a buff (Or not be affected by a debuff to most races), as they dont need air. This is a place i am aware balance is hotly debated. -Some races would not really be affected, for example vox, who always carry their own "air" anyhow, I do not believe this point is too large an issue however -There would be a bigger reason to get the O2 kit on at once, and be "ready". This in turn would make it less relevant with N2O or other such means. The powergamey things like this I would not consider a huge problem, some do this even now. -Atmos is certainly going to be more active, as well as cost more CPU. This is an issue I am aware the coders think highly off, and are likely to oppose this proposal somewhat due to this. -It would further increase the effect of O2 being replaced by N2, so balace shifts from 20/80 till O2 is gone. I see this issue, but I think it can be fixed by changing the mix in the supply pipe, to a more O2 heavy one, why pump in more N2 when it isnt being drained anyhow?

For all interested, there is now a PR for the removal of spreading shrooms, a soulution that solves the issue I meant was there anyhow https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/15445

I agree at that, but if (as I mean it does) breach anti powergaming rules thats quite the good reason to get rid off/not allow them used. They do look ugly and nasty as well though.

I proposed it as a rule change, due to two things, first off I dont know code for shit, second, as I see it this is more of a enforcement of a rule rather than removing anything (Which is often more contested). That said a removal of it would also solve my issues with it, so thats also a valid fix.

I will also add that in almost all games this far I have seen, Atmos was given access by hacking in and being allowed, CE locking the doors, the access being changed, basicly they get access anyhow. As such they should just have it, as they basicly get it already.

I think it already falls within powergaming, but as per enforcement it does not appear to be so, thus this suggestion. First of all - Coding Difficulty: No coding needed at all, just a rule change/clarification Scope: Small, banning shrooms in maints is not a huge project. Balance: Shrooms in maints is a big negative for a lot of antags, most of all the sling. For slings the shrooms ruin games, for cults it doesnt help (as they have NV), for terrors it lights where they dont want it, for tators it makes maints less safe than they already are with patrols. Furthermore it is not hard for botany to make them, and they spread so fast that it is not achiveable to get rid of them. The upside of them? Makes botany somewhat more relevant, but botany can already do a lot of memey things, Sec can get NV huds, as can almost all others easily, and isnt maints meant to be dark anyhow? Furthermore, is it not so that making shrooms in maints is like wrenching pipes with terrors? It is MEANT to fuck over antags, not to make things look nice or such. For example, one will seldom see it unless slings are called. I for one consider the shrooms just as bad as making cams all over maints, wrenching pipes to sabotage terrors, or removing pipes "in case" an AI is malf so it cannot plasmaflood.

First of all - Coding Difficulty: As I do not have much experience with coding here, this is hard for me to say, but it would seem logical if it is merely to change a letter a few places, and the most difficult being to get all the places it is, rather than to change it at all. Scope: It's generally best to try to keep things as limited as possible. Suggestions to overhaul or introduce huge things are likely to be put into the "too hard" basket. The bigger something is, the more work needs to be done - and not just once. As other things are changed, we have to maintain the rest of the code. The scope is very limited, just to change the letter to a moe available one on the keyboard, for example ":L" (For a eason, like for M:Mdical, can say like Last Resort or smething, its just a propsoal for a letter, but in the end whatever is fine, as long as its simpler), just to make it even simpler to reach Balance: As it stands, the ERT usually have a threat that already has breached command and Sec, so Sec and/or Sec comms are breached, meaning their own comms are the only safe ones. They also make desicions within, which they may not want all others to know of, or to ask for assistance from only ERT or such, and not want Sec or Command to hear/join. With that, it is also weirdly the hardest letter to use of all the comms, even as ERT may have it very hectic, and have little time to use comms in the first place, as such it makes little sense that they need to press two buttons (at least on my computer) for ERT comms, while all others are just one, and easy to reach. There is of course the eh, in lack of better terms, noob factor. The little more difficulty in using it makes it not used, or not easily used when new, in addition to a lot of ERT not using it at all because it is a pain. In short, its barely a buff at all, but shouldnt really be seen as such, more a QOL improvement. While I do know, a lot of keys are in the muscle memory of the veterans, do consider this for all, and not by you not finding it as a problem, all can use these comms as they are, but this would just make it simpler and faster.

It makes no sense that a Malf Ai would offer its camera to all who would see, but then again not being able to see it would be a clear sign of Malf. I would therefore propose a Malf power that would eliminate all borgs and Malf Ai from the camera console, or other AIs, as it would presumably have the cabability to do so IC. One concern is the balance of a Malf Bomb AI then, which would be easy to hide, as it would no longer show its camera, I would then propose that the bomb in itself would make the AI unable to hide its cameras, or for it to announce its current location, as a way for balance. What are your thoughts on this?