Standard Operating Procedure Update

[Rurik]

4 hours ago, FPK said:

Trading/selling/giving away job specific weapons, gear, equipment, and supplies should count as theft. The bartender trading away his shotgun, engineers letting people take circuit boards from tech storage, officers giving away weapons, ect. 

This would definitely help with people giving their clique friends things from their department that they shouldn't have, which I see all to often. However I could see it getting annoying at times, if there is a legitimate reason, etc.

[owenowen101]

Some suggestions I'd like to make just from thinking off of the top of my head:

• Allow IAAs to conduct department inspections rather than it simply being an NT rep thing and give them some more power to police SoP to an extent. This might make more people actually want to play internal affairs more than once or twice.
• Add a clause in medical SoP prohibiting the annoying practice of 'reserving ORs'. I see this quite a lot in medbay and it only serves to start vicious arguments between surgeons. A clause encouraging people to respect an attending surgeon and and not barge in and take over would be nice.

[FPK]

Here we go again. This time, I'm taking a look at regular SOP.

Quote

Every damn Alert Level Code:

Secure Areas:

EVA Storage, Tech Storage, Gravity Generator, Engineering Secure Storage, AI Upload, Teleporter, Vault, Gateway, anywhere else requiring a restricted level of access that does not get regularly used

The above quote repeats itself five times in SOP, tacked within the Alert Levels section. To save space and give restricted areas more respect, it should get its own section in SOP. This would make quoting SOP easier when it comes to justifying a restricted trespass charge. A tighter definition that includes all restricted areas would help as well.

 

Quote

Code Blue:

General Crew:

Personnel are to report any suspicious activity to the nearest member of Security, or use their PDA or Headsets if required;

Change to "Personnel are to report all suspicious activity to security and/or their relevant department head, with discretion if possible." This quote is located in the Code Blue section, which implies that personnel only need to report suspicious behavior during Code Blue. Moving this point outside of the Alert Level section would fix the implication.

 

Quote

Code Red:

Security:

Security personnel should read Security SOP for armament, armory and safety procedures;

A bit redundant, considering that none of the other Alert Levels has anything about reading SOP. If the purpose of this point is to act as a pointer to the three Code Red Security Officer points located in SecSOP, then it might be better to just shove those three points into Code Red Security SOP, in regular SOP. There's no need to make people rummage through multiple SOP books, it's best to keep things simple and straight forward.

 

The header for the Alert Levels section (I know it doesn't exist, but it should damn it) should have a point recommending that the Captain make an announcement when changing alert levels.

A reminder that an announcement from the HoS is mandatory when going to Code Red should be included in the Code Red section. A side note, it's generally accepted by the crew that an announcement from the Captain, instead of the HoS, explaining the Red Alert will suffice. SecSOP and ComSOP should be updated to reflect this.

Quote

Code Gamma

AAAH MY EYES. Add a black border or make the yellow color a little less glaring, please.

 

There's more to nitpick, but it can wait.

[whiskeyfur]

As captain today, I had to remove one HoS who was well out of line, and the warden wouldn't go along with it so both ended up getting removed, and demoted to civilian. Security was needed to escort them. It was a total mess.

As for the dual role by genetics... I'm leaning towards making them science, but with a SOP that mandates they WILL provide support to medical as needed. They are not doctors, and should not act in that role. Cloning people, yes. Making sure it remains stocked with biomass? no. Keeping disks of people who have been scanned, probably yes. Advising doctors on genetic diseases and how to treat them, yes. But they do not do the treatment themselves unless there is no choice.

Kind of the same with doctors and chemists. Every doctor should know how to make chemicals and drugs, but should only do so if there's no other choice. Chemists for that matter, probably should be more science than medical, and following the same guidelines that geneticists do.. they provide a service to medical that is a critical job, but once that fridge is full and there's no custom requests.. then they are pretty free to do as they need as long as it does not compromise medical. (and no bombs in medchem, please).

Civilians and greytiders? Ugh... if they would actually follow instructions I wouldn't mind so much but seriously? There's quite a number of them I would rather space on sight. (Davis Porteat for example). Absolutely, fucking, useless. I don't see a reason for them to be on a research station, and I think part of the problem on why so many of them act up is because they're bored.

I would like to see gateway explorers be their own REAL job to give these folks something to do. They want to screw around, fine, go do it in xeno land or the beach, wherever the gateway goes to that round. Have next to the gateway a small weapons depot incase they find something nasty and a small med bay of sorts for them to be treated at before getting shipped off to the real med bay. But keep them busy and out of everyone else's hair, please.

Those are my feelings on it.

[GunDOS]

2 hours ago, whiskeyfur said:

As for the dual role by genetics... I'm leaning towards making them science, but with a SOP that mandates they WILL provide support to medical as needed. They are not doctors, and should not act in that role. Cloning people, yes. Making sure it remains stocked with biomass? no. Keeping disks of people who have been scanned, probably yes. Advising doctors on genetic diseases and how to treat them, yes. But they do not do the treatment themselves unless there is no choice.

In my personal opinion, it needs to stay something the CMO can order. At the moment genetic disease can only be treated by either clean S.E or Mito. The latter is not always available. Even adding a SoP clause that states they must assist medical, I would like a little power to order them to do something to treat patients (EG Brain-Transfer Monkey). I agree with everything else you state.

2 hours ago, whiskeyfur said:

I would like to see gateway explorers be their own REAL job to give these folks something to do. They want to screw around, fine, go do it in xeno land or the beach, wherever the gateway goes to that round. Have next to the gateway a small weapons depot incase they find something nasty and a small med bay of sorts for them to be treated at before getting shipped off to the real med bay. But keep them busy and out of e

I have actually suggested this before but it went nowhere and the PR attached to it was closed, soooooo yea....

[EvadableMoxie]

I really think Genetics should simply be a part of medical.  Genetics has no interaction with Science and nothing they do effects Science's ability to operate.

On the other hand, they are responsible for the cloner, which is medical's department, they make monkeys for chem to get blood with for synthflesh, and for the cloner to make biomass with.  They made humanized monkeys for surgeons to replace lost limbs with.  They make clean SE for MDs to treat genetic issues.

Science doesn't need them for anything. Nothing they do impacts science at all.

I don't even understand why they are under both science and medical to begin with, but I'd guess it's a legacy thing that made sense at some point and doesn't anymore due to changes since then.

Edited May 22, 2017 by EvadableMoxie

[Enginseer-42]

Name one portion of science that really does much interaction with the rest of science? You can get a few points of bio tech out of Xenobiology. And Sulphiric Acid from Sci-chem.

Science is the department that covers mucking about and making super dangerous stuff for no apparent reason. And Genetics does that in spades, it's 90% of what you do as a geneticist. The cloner is at best a side project that literally anyone can and often does run. And you can use Mutadone to cure any genetic defects someone might pick up.

Secondly, is it really that hard to just ask another department to do something for you? You do it every time a hole is blown in the middle of the surgery OR. And Science is kind of used to people showing up at the front desk, asking for stuff. Though personally I'd like to vote for a remap of science with the RD's office and the R&D lab swapped in place. So the RD is out front to receive requests so they can go shout at scientists to get stuff done.

And they don't MAKE monkeys. They're supplied with a limited amount of monkeys at roundstart. Xenobiology can make monkeys. So can Cargo. Does that make them part of Medical?

[EvadableMoxie]

It seems like your argument is mostly thematic.  You don't seem to disagree that mechanically Genecists does nothing for science yet is incredibly vital to medical.  But you feel we should completely ignore that because you think the fluff of genetic experimentation is better suited to science.  I disagree with that, since things like virology or gateway exploration are also dangerous, yet are not covered by science.  Robotics and RnD are also fairly safe and yet still under the science department. But, even if I agree with you that fluff wise science makes sense, I think mechanics are a much better thing base these decisions on.

The cloner is not at best a side project. It is part of their responsibilities and takes priority over experimentation.  Other than the CMO, Geneticists are the only people who can eject a clone early, which significantly speed up how fast people can be cloned in an emergency.  That's vitally important.

In short, we have a department that serves no mechanical purpose to science, while serving invaluable mechanical purposes to medical. This is a no brainer.  It belongs as a part of medical.  If you disagree, what argument can you offer that it should be a part of science beyond your own personal opinion that it fits better lore wise for it to be? 

[Enginseer-42]

And how often do those things happen? If ever? I have not once seen a geneticist manning the cloner as their primary duty. Literally ever. In the entire time of me playing here. Why is that? Because it's boring. And now there's even a coroner who's going to take the one interesting aspect of the job, handling the corpses, out of it.

Genetics provides for science the same things it provides for medical. Humanized monkeys for test subjects. Mechanically, robotics can provide the limbs that are needed for surgery. If asked. Should we also make Robotics a dual (Or possibly even triple) department job? The whole game relies on the departments working together. So stating that a job produces stuff that the department needs is wholly irrelevant. Science requires mining to do their job for pretty much anything.

Science is a counterpoint in the supply chain to Cargo. Cargo provides the station with Raw Materials. and Science provides the station with finished goods. Medical DOES NOT provide the station with finished goods. They provide a service. as your argument hinges upon genetics providing medical with finished goods, then it therefor follows that Genetics is a branch of science, that is heavily relied upon by medical to provide them with stuff.

[GunDOS]

4 hours ago, Enginseer-42 said:

And how often do those things happen? If ever?

Quite often, I have personally seen genetics keeping the cloner in peak condition on many occasions.

4 hours ago, Enginseer-42 said:

Because it's boring.

It's boring to you

4 hours ago, Enginseer-42 said:

Genetics provides for science the same things it provides for medical. Humanized monkeys for test subjects.

In science, there are two far easier places you can get test subjects. Xenobio and sci-chem. There is no need for science staff to bother genetics, and that is generally how it goes. In my own experience anyways.

4 hours ago, Enginseer-42 said:

Mechanically, robotics can provide the limbs

Those are not biological limbs, which some patients insist on.

4 hours ago, Enginseer-42 said:

Cargo provides the station with Raw Materials. and Science provides the station with finished goods. Medical DOES NOT provide the station with finished goods. They provide a service. as your argument hinges upon genetics providing medical with finished goods,

Science's job is to research, they aren't really supposed to be the cyberiads manufacturing arm. Though your right in saying that's how it seems. Using the logic you just used, I could also state that chemistry should also be part of science.

To finish, you seem to assume that  if you ask for something your going to get it, medical requires a way to treat genetic damage. And clean S.E is one of the only ways to treat it. The only other one requires chemistry to do a good job, and that is not always the case. 

[Enginseer-42]

That's funny. I never have, and I break into medbay almost every round.

 

You can't get human test subjects from scichem or xenobio reliably.

 

I am aware. They asked for a mechanical argument, so I gave them one. A clean SE, is by and far a shit way to fix genetic defects given it poisons the subject. Mutadone doesn't. And you don't have to worry about the geneticist accidentally slipping blindness into the clean SE.

And mutadone isn't even hard to make.

[GunDOS]

5 minutes ago, Enginseer-42 said:

That's funny. I never have, and I break into medbay almost every round.

That's uh, not something you should be admitting to us. But that's besides the point.

6 minutes ago, Enginseer-42 said:

You can't get human test subjects from scichem or xenobio reliably.

What does a human test subject do, that a monkey subject cannot.

7 minutes ago, Enginseer-42 said:

A clean SE, is by and far a shit way to fix genetic defects given it poisons the subject. Mutadone doesn't.

Mutadone requires a competent chemistry staff, it is not always there and available. Clean S.E is.

9 minutes ago, Enginseer-42 said:

And mutadone isn't even hard to make.

Again it's not hard for you.

[Enginseer-42]

Why not? It's both not hard to do, not against the rules and not particularly harmful.

Look right?

A clean SE requires genetics to be competent. You can't make decisions based on the idea that both chemists will be totally incompetent and the geneticists won't be.

[GunDOS]

Just now, Enginseer-42 said:

Why not? It's both not hard to do, not against the rules and not particularly harmful.

Yes, but to medical players such as myself. I see it as a little dickish if your not an antagonist. 

2 minutes ago, Enginseer-42 said:

A clean SE requires genetics to be competent. You can't make decisions based on the idea that both chemists will be totally incompetent and the geneticists won't be.

Making clean SE requires you to shove yourself into a machine and save your SE. It will then print an infinite amount of the stuff. Making mutadone either requires you to make the drug itself, put it in a workable dose and make them into pills/patches/bottles. 

For genetics it's literally on the wiki.

For chemistry you have to be taught the efficient doses, and how to make it efficiently then place it in pills/patches/etc.

One is easy, the other is the source of many... many... Mhelps

[Enginseer-42]

Mutadone is on the wiki as well.

 

As a complete tangent to this. It seems to me that it would be cool if heads of staff could implement alternative operating procedure. Cook something up for your department. Submit a copy to IAA so they can Know what to look for. Get the captain to sign off and bam.

Would be interesting.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Enginseer-42

[GunDOS]

1 hour ago, Enginseer-42 said:

Mutadone is on the wiki as well.

In response

1 hour ago, Saul Argon said:

For chemistry you have to be taught the efficient doses, and how to make it efficiently then place it in pills/patches/etc.

One is easy, the other is the source of many... many... Mhelps

 

[Enginseer-42]

No. No you don't. You just have to know how to make it. There are no genetic defects that will kill you if the chemist takes a few minutes to make a terrible wasteful patch.

And if a clean SE is easier, it fits with the general mechanical role of science in providing tools that make your jobs easier but aren't strictly needed.

[GunDOS]

Alright, I say again. If you take genetic damage and let's just say have horns. You only have two options. A: clean SE. B: mutadone. The latter requires a decent knoledge of chemistry  to produce efficiently and in high densities. 

My point is that medical as a rule should be able to treat everything without the help of chemistry. In my opinion it shouldn't be an integral part of the department.

At this point genetics is a dule department area, but in practice it is mainly an ancillary of medical.

If genetics becomes part of science it opens the possibility of genetics denying a medical doctor  the resources he may need to treat someone with genetic damage. Leaving said person crippled and possibly in-clonable. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by Saul Argon
Grammar

[Enginseer-42]

9 minutes ago, Saul Argon said:

Alright, I say again. If you take genetic damage and let's just say have horns. You only have two options. A: clean SE. B: mutadone. The latter requires a decent knoledge of chemistry  to produce efficiently and in high densities. 

My point is that medical as a rule should be able to treat everything without the help of chemistry. In my opinion it shouldn't be an integral part of the department.

At this point genetics is a dule department area, but in practice it is mainly an ancillary of medical.

If genetics becomes part of science it opens the possibility of genetics denying a medical doctor  the resources he may need to treat someone with genetic damage. Leaving said person crippled and possibly in-clonable. 

https://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Guide_to_Chemistry#Mutadone

Literally right there. Anyone who can read can make it.

And no medical as a rule should not be able to treat everyone without chemistry because otherwise what is the point of medchem?

Chems are an integral part of medical. I don't get why that bothers you so much but that's the case.

[whiskeyfur]

3 hours ago, Enginseer-42 said:

Mutadone is on the wiki as well.

 

As a complete tangent to this. It seems to me that it would be cool if heads of staff could implement alternative operating procedure. Cook something up for your department. Submit a copy to IAA so they can Know what to look for. Get the captain to sign off and bam.

Would be interesting.

My view from the captain's chair... if it makes things more efficient, let me know and we'll come to an agreement.

Just be prepared to defend it 'cause I will try to poke holes in your proposal, including safety concerns.

[GunDOS]

6 hours ago, Enginseer-42 said:

And no medical as a rule should not be able to treat everyone without chemistry because otherwise what is the point of medchem?

Medchem is there to make medical easier, that is my understanding of it anyways. You can also see this mechanically. All forms of damage are treatable by medical without having to touch Medchem. But honestly, the only way to find this out for sure is to ask a maintainer. @Fox McCloud

6 hours ago, Enginseer-42 said:

https://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Guide_to_Chemistry#Mutadone

Literally right there. Anyone who can read can make it.

If you notice I said this.

7 hours ago, Saul Argon said:

the latter requires a decent knoledge of chemistry  to produce efficiently and in high densities. 

Anyone can make a chem, only chemistry players can make these chems in an efficient dose and in the right way to be used effectively. I never stated that it was impossible or harmful (to the patient) to make a wasteful patch. Just something that is not always done, while positing a reason based on my personal experience. I have been in receipt of a lot of Mhelp's regarding Medchem. Far more than the ones out of genetics.

Note: You can also get mutadone from RnD upgrading your sleepers. But that is an uncommon occurrence nowadays sadly...

[Enginseer-42]

Except that argument is rather silly isn't it? "This non-time critical condition can be cured, but one way we're going to demand that it be made 100% perfectly, but the other we're not going to question at all."

It probably DOESN'T get as many Mhelps. Because Genetics is fairly easy to just do. It's also fairly easy to do wrong, but that's not readily apparent to the geneticist unless something goes seriously wrong. Unlike with Chemistry, where rather than not knowing if your clean SE works until you inject someone with it, you instead are entirely aware your mix isn't mixing.

That doesn't change that the directions are right there on the wiki and genetic damage is not 'drop everything and fix it.' the emergency. It can wait.

[FPK]

This is a brief post that I'll elaborate on later through edits. Just wanted to get the idea out there.

It's clear that enforcing SOP through demotions, brig time, and other punishments isn't working. So why don't we encourage departments to follow SOP by rewarding departments that pass inspection?

EDIT: This is what I have in mind: Departments can be inspected by an IAA or NTR, to see if they're operating according to SOP and NT's standards. Following the inspection, the report needs to faxed to CC, preferably by the NTR. CC doesn't need to approve the report, much like the recent change to executions. As for the reward, I can't think of anything. I tossed around the idea of departmental weapon permits, which would give the department head a weapon for self defense, but said weapon needs to stay within the department. Didn't like the idea of giving heads more weapons, so I tossed it out. If anyone has any ideas, ping me.

Edited June 2, 2017 by FPK

[Enginseer-42]

How would you reward them though?

[GunDOS]

7 hours ago, Enginseer-42 said:

This non-time critical condition can be cured, but one way we're going to demand that it be made 100% perfectly, but the other we're not going to question at all."

Well, I wasent demanding it be made perfectly... but if you only make enough for one and a quarter pills... that's hardly useful is it not?

As for it being non-critical. If someone becomes irradiated, they start taking tox, and also dealing tox to everyone around them. If said person is not fixed they will eventually die. And because the effect is genetic they will be cloned with it and die again thereafter.

7 hours ago, Enginseer-42 said:

It probably DOESN'T get as many Mhelps. Because Genetics is fairly easy to just do. It's also fairly easy to do wrong, but that's not readily apparent to the geneticist unless something goes seriously wrong. Unlike with Chemistry, where rather than not knowing if your clean SE works until you inject someone with it, you instead are entirely aware your mix isn't mixing

It doesn't get as many mhelps because the wiki tells you step-by-step how to make it. The chem wiki just tells you what to mix. I reference my earlier part to do with a pill and a quarter here.

8 hours ago, Enginseer-42 said:

genetic damage is not 'drop everything and fix it.' the emergency. It can wait.

Not in all cases, see being irradiated.

If you leave someone stammering, unable to move and with horns. Your not gonna make any friends with the IAA's. Things can't wait in medical, unless you want to risk being overwhelmed by patients and being fired for malpractice.