Should gas masks obfuscate vision?

[Tayswift]

This idea is kind of inspired by what I think battlefield 1 has, where if you put on a gas mask, your vision is slightly obscured. I think it's pretty atmospheric and adds a drawback to wearing a gas mask all the time. Would maybe reduce the amount of random gas mask wearing on the station.

I should also give credit to @Dragnoir for leading me to this train of thought.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Tayswift

[FlattestGuitar]

Good lord, I had no idea I needed a feature this much.

Yes. So much yes.

That will stop the people running around with the things on 24/7.

[GunDOS]

Really like this idea, if a coder was willing to pick this up. You could totlally just steal the welding mask code

[FlattestGuitar]

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/7111

o7

[GunDOS]

@FlattestGuitar  :>

[pazneria12]

If it affected your vision, wouldn't it also protect from welding? 

[SideCat]

Na-aa, noup.

[SideCat]

15 minutes ago, pazneria12 said:

If it affected your vision, wouldn't it also protect from welding? 

Yeah, that would be right? I guess..?

[Doukan]

Obscures vision/shields from glaring heat, maybe minor protection like what sunglasses used to/get?

[Landerlow]

I support this idea, just because I think it's a nice touch of realism. I don't particularly care if it ISN'T implemented, it's just nice.

[EvadableMoxie]

Without special darkened glass that provides UV and IR protection a gas mask would only really protect you from sparks.  That's nice, but you'd still cook your own corneas looking at the light the welder gives off. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by EvadableMoxie

[shazbot194]

Honestly, I see the reason why people would want this, but there are a lot of masks and hats that should obstruct your vision more then the two default gas masks that still conceal your identity. While I haven't worn it for several hours, I have worn an M15 gas mask for at least a couple hours at a time and I never noticed it obstructing my vision unless I tried to notice it. Not to mention the gas mask that should be default is a full visor style, which would be even less obstructing. 

M15 gas mask and the alt gas mask both on face sprite and in hand sprite

A full visor gas mask with the main gas mask face sprite and in hand sprite

also, is it just me or is the in game mask missing a filter

 

[Spacemanspark]

Let me tell you.

Gas masks truely suck to wear.

They dig into your scalp, hinder your vision, and God help you if you vomit while wearing one (we had a guy do that.).

[Happy Tim]

I have to be this guy and ask... What abouuut voice changer? Should the same limitations be added OR do we treat it as a piece of syndi tech that is intentionally superior? In later case it would increase VC's usefulness while also making it easier to identify. Both options seems viable, imo.

 

EDIT: There is also option C, where old VC gets deleted altogether and replaced by something more expensive, that might be implanted in one's neck.

 

Sorry for drifting slightly off-topic, but I feel that both things are kinda connected.  

Edited April 18, 2017 by Happy Tim
I had a train of thought!

[CPTCoffee]

1 hour ago, Spacemanspark said:

Let me tell you.

Gas masks truely suck to wear.

They dig into your scalp, hinder your vision, and God help you if you vomit while wearing one (we had a guy do that.).

Also drinking water and just overall breathing is horrible. It's like you're told to put a freaking plastic bag over your head and told to breathe deep. 

[ZN23X]

I'd just be psyched if the greytide who run around at code red with a gas mask, makeshift weapon, and no ID stopped arguing with me about arresting them because "Everyone does it"

Enjoy your 20 minutes.

*flip

Edited April 18, 2017 by ZN23X

[Allfd]

I really feel gas masks should protect you from breathing gas.

[FPK]

20 whole minutes? I've stopped being that strict about SL a long time ago. But we're not here to discuss spesslaw.

I'm in favor of this. Wearing a gas mask shouldn't obscure someone's vision as horribly as the welding helmet does, but it should have some kind of similar drawback. Maybe the same thing the welding helmet does, but scaled down?

[ZN23X]

4 minutes ago, FPK said:

20 whole minutes? I've stopped being that strict about SL a long time ago. But we're not here to discuss spesslaw.

I'm only strict if they earn it. I'm also very lenient if they earn it.

Not sure if anyone brought this up yet...on the note of comparing to gas masks from BF1  (I think that was World War 1?), I imagine gas mask tech has evolved substantially since then. I have no problem with people having full vision with them.

From an RP stand point it would be uncomfortable to wear all the time, so would wearing EVA 24/7, as would surviving on hot cocoa, and various other things people regularly do every round. If it was a pure HRP server it'd be a problem. 

[Doukan]

Ideally we'd bring back hardsuits slowing to crawl in pressurised environments too, that was taken out for being annoying but now there's little reason not to wear one 24/7.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Doukan

[Sothangel]

I'd like to see hardsuits make you very slow and such, so there's a proper disadvantage to just wearing your EVA gear inside.

[shazbot194]

5 hours ago, ZN23X said:

I'd just be psyched if the greytide who run around at code red with a gas mask, makeshift weapon, and no ID stopped arguing with me about arresting them because "Everyone does it"

Enjoy your 20 minutes.

*flip

2 hours ago, FPK said:

20 whole minutes? I've stopped being that strict about SL a long time ago. But we're not here to discuss spesslaw.

I'm in favor of this. Wearing a gas mask shouldn't obscure someone's vision as horribly as the welding helmet does, but it should have some kind of similar drawback. Maybe the same thing the welding helmet does, but scaled down?

7 hours ago, Spacemanspark said:

Let me tell you.

Gas masks truely suck to wear.

They dig into your scalp, hinder your vision, and God help you if you vomit while wearing one (we had a guy do that.).

What if, rather then having it obstruct vision, you would have a counter that keeps track of how long you wear a gas mask, and if you wear on for long enough (20+ minutes) it would cause pain unless it was a half mask or full helmet style, ie the sec hailer or the warden's and HoS's mask. The counter would go down when you don't wear the mask. If I remember how pain works, it would make people who always wear gas masks be stunned easier while not hindering people who are wearing one for legitimate uses such as firefighting or chemistry. Although I still think SoP should be used to fix this rather then mechanical limits. 

2 hours ago, ZN23X said:

Not sure if anyone brought this up yet...on the note of comparing to gas masks from BF1  (I think that was World War 1?), I imagine gas mask tech has evolved substantially since then. I have no problem with people having full vision with them.

From an RP stand point it would be uncomfortable to wear all the time, so would wearing EVA 24/7, as would surviving on hot cocoa, and various other things people regularly do every round. If it was a pure HRP server it'd be a problem. 

Fully agree, and yes, I can't imagine wearing a ww1 style mask for more then 10 minutes without being super uncomfortable or walking into something hard enough to hurt myself, but I could stomach a couple hours in a modern mask, but my scalp would hate me. I included a couple images of some WW1 masks and some modern masks, notice how the modern masks have way bigger lenses and have shapes that try to give the most visibility vs the WW1 masks which have relatively small or obstructed lenses. 

A German, British, and Russian ww1 gas masks

Modern German, British, and Russian gas masks

With enough time, who knows, someone might make a gas mask that is comfortable to wear.

Random fact, the ww1 Russian gas mask started life as a vodka filter

 

 

[IK3I]

I can tell you from experience, there is one thing that all proper respirators have in common that would be highly relevant to the notion of creating an IC reason to not wear them unless you have a good reason without gimping the identity hiding aspect. 

That thing they all have in common is making your speech a garbled mess from more than a few feet away. This is causes by several factors, but the biggest contributors are the following: The air seal forces your speech to travel through the thick membrane, generally distorting it slightly and lowering the pitch while the mask itself acts like a tight chinstrap preventing you from opening your mouth fully to enunciate.

Note that these effects are barely noticeable if at all with small masks and the like as they are generally more flexible and thinner.

Another thing to note, walkie talkies and other radio systems are often integrated into advanced gas masks specifically because of these distorting effects.

What would this mean for IG implementation? 

1: Gas masks would effectively make all says behave like whispers as anyone outside of one or two tiles would have no chance of understanding you even though they heard you say something.

2: Gas masks would not interfere with radio/headset operation because something something bluetooth?

How would this affect gameplay?

First of all, it would discourage people that wanted to talk or RP from wearing them unless they had to. Additionally, it would not affect people trying to hide their identity as speaking with one on ruins your disguise anyway.

As for antag encounters:

If an antag encounters someone with a gas mask, they can strip the headset as usual and are left with a person who can't communicate anything other than I am screaming to a passersby. This is generally enough to attract attention and thus the goal is achieved. Also, it's still a mask so duct tape can't be applied in the same way that even a cigarette blocks taping. In other words, it's relatively antag neutral.

[Tayswift]

46 minutes ago, IK3I said:

1: Gas masks would effectively make all says behave like whispers as anyone outside of one or two tiles would have no chance of understanding you even though they heard you say something.

2: Gas masks would not interfere with radio/headset operation because something something bluetooth?

How would this affect gameplay?

First of all, it would discourage people that wanted to talk or RP from wearing them unless they had to. Additionally, it would not affect people trying to hide their identity as speaking with one on ruins your disguise anyway.

Hmm this idea handles realism, RP, and balance all at once. Way more thought out than my little shower thought. I feel like this would also be more popular than the current PR on Github at the moment.

[shazbot194]

2 hours ago, IK3I said:

That thing they all have in common is making your speech a garbled mess from more than a few feet away. This is causes by several factors, but the biggest contributors are the following: The air seal forces your speech to travel through the thick membrane, generally distorting it slightly and lowering the pitch while the mask itself acts like a tight chinstrap preventing you from opening your mouth fully to enunciate.

Note that these effects are barely noticeable if at all with small masks and the like as they are generally more flexible and thinner.

Another thing to note, walkie talkies and other radio systems are often integrated into advanced gas masks specifically because of these distorting effects.

What would this mean for IG implementation? 

1: Gas masks would effectively make all says behave like whispers as anyone outside of one or two tiles would have no chance of understanding you even though they heard you say something.

2: Gas masks would not interfere with radio/headset operation because something something bluetooth?

While I think this could be a good way to balance out gas masks, I must say that since the early cold war, gas masks have mostly had voice boxes that limit this muffling effect. This is done by having a thin piece of plastic or rubber stretched out over a hole to act more or less like a speaker. And if we assume that they already have a microphone built in with bluetooth connect-ability, what is to stop the installation of a cheap speaker that would, in combination with the microphone, act like a better voice box and eliminate the most if not all of the muffling. One more thing I do want to add, the gas mask's in SS13 aren't worn like a traditional gas mask 9/10 times due to using an airtank, it can have a looser fit since air is being pushed through it allowing any cracks/improper seals to be counter by having air blow out of them faster then air is sucked in through them. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by shazbot194
Grammar