Antag Counters

[ZN23X]

So...I've been playing since December. I play at least 2-3 rounds a day. I've had Wizard, Blob, and Nukie set to YES pretty much since day 1. Ive been a nukie op twice, never been a blob or wizard. Played 2 rounds in a row last night where the SAME PERSON got vampire in both rounds. That seems a bit unfair to people who rarely pull antag. Is there a way to make it so the game keeps track of who has been what kind of antag how many times to try to give more people a chance?

Worst part is the day I finally get to be a wizard or blob I'm going to die fast because I'll have no clue what I'm doing, then I'll have to wait another forever to try again.

[Birdtalon]

It's done completely random with no weighting on anything and I think that's the best way.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Birdtalon

[ZN23X]

9 minutes ago, Birdtalon said:

It's done completely random with no weighting on anything and I think that's the best way.

...entirely random aside from adminbus or antag tokens (don't know if the tokens exist but I've heard of them)

[Bxil]

Antag tokens...?

Also, I have to agree with this. +1

[Spacemanspark]

Oddly enough, I tend to see the same people getting antag repeatedly, over and over.

Hell, it was happening to me at one point, enough to where I just disabled getting traitor entirely.

I wouldn't mind such a system, but I'm rather unsure as to how feasible it'd be to code in.

[ZN23X]

14 minutes ago, Bxil said:

Antag tokens...?

I've heard that if you have an unusual problem as certain antags that leads to your round ending that you can AHELP it and get an token that  allows you to become that type of antag again. The example I can think of it a blob that got killed immediately after turning into a blob because a civilian  (luckily?) was RIGHT there. And as I've said, it could have been someone who's never been blob before, and from my experience, may never be a blob again for months...or if something happens where you got disconnected randomly at a critical moment and it ended your round. Those are the examples I've heard of.

I don't know if the token is just a note on your account and you get it via adminbus, if it's something you select yourself, or if it's just a myth. Admins confirm?

[IK3I]

antag tokens are in my experience (I have received one once) simply an admin acknowledging that your round was ruined by bugs/glitches/etc and they force you to be an antag next round.

[Hylocereus]

Oh hey, that was me. Yeah, it's random I'm sure, but I do just seem to have an abnormal tendancy to get vamp. I actually had it turned off for a while because it happened almost every other round - my longest vampire streak was four(!) games in a row.

I heard somewhere that the system was weighted a little bit to make people who hadn't been antags in a while more likely to get it, but I don't know how true that was, and it doesn't seem to hold water since it really does tend to be the same bunch of people antagging every other round.

The fact these people do play a lot though probably adds to it - 'course someone who plays like 5 rounds a day is going to get antag more than someone who plays once. It's just more chances for it to happen.

[shazbot194]

5 hours ago, Birdtalon said:

It's done completely random with no weighting on anything and I think that's the best way.

The problem with this is very hard to make a true random number generator and patterns will almost always appear. I think people getting to be antag so many times in a row while others get it so rarely if at all shows this. One way to try and counter this would be to add a weighting system to try and prevent people from getting it so many times in a row, like if one person didn't get to be traitor when there were traitors could then count as two people when the game is picking people, and if it goes three games, they count as three, and it resets when they finally get picked, although this might lead to its own problems, it would help mix up who is antags without disabling people from getting it multiple times. 

[Birdtalon]

I think the whole "people getting antag always" is more a case of people noticing certain players getting antagonist more often. For whatever reason that may be. Also remember that not everyone has every antagonist option set to on which lowers the sample size. People who have every antagonist option set to On will have more chance.

[shazbot194]

3 minutes ago, Birdtalon said:

I think the whole "people getting antag always" is more a case of people noticing certain players getting antagonist more often. For whatever reason that may be. Also remember that not everyone has every antagonist option set to on which lowers the sample size. People who have every antagonist option set to On will have more chance.

I fully agree that some people are way more noticeable as antags, and that it might not be as bad as it seams, there is still a lot of cases when people are getting to be traitors, vamps, changelings, etc multiple times in a row while other people don't play any antags for weeks at a time depsite having them set to yes. In the few months I have been playing paradise, I very rarely get to be an antag from round start so much I think it's still in single digits. Also, since the pool is smaller, it should make people who want to be antags be antags more often, but that hasn't always been the case.

[pazneria12]

I've also noticed patterns like this, like a while back one person was a starter cultist nearly every cult round for like 3 weeks

[Doukan]

My record is five times in a row, traitor-traitor-changeling-vampire-blob, my longest dry spell is 2 months, I play on average 6+ hours a night a few days a week.

Adminbusery aside it comes down entirely to RNG and I wouldn't have it any other way, the last thing we need is space socialism when it comes to rolling for antag. Any such system would only end up infested with shitty player drama. It just so happens that when it does happen to certain people they tend to play in a certain way that attracts notice (squishy larkens anyone? I fucking hate player memes but that was just uncanny).

If you're concerned about your ability it's very easy to setup a test server for yourself to play around with the mechanics.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Doukan

[Shadeykins]

14 hours ago, ZN23X said:

I've heard that if you have an unusual problem as certain antags that leads to your round ending that you can AHELP it and get an token that  allows you to become that type of antag again. The example I can think of it a blob that got killed immediately after turning into a blob because a civilian  (luckily?) was RIGHT there. And as I've said, it could have been someone who's never been blob before, and from my experience, may never be a blob again for months...or if something happens where you got disconnected randomly at a critical moment and it ended your round. Those are the examples I've heard of.

I don't know if the token is just a note on your account and you get it via adminbus, if it's something you select yourself, or if it's just a myth. Admins confirm?

No. That's not how antag tokens work.

Antag tokens are only ever awarded if an admin screws your traitor round.

They are exceedingly rare and are handed out almost never. The one time I've seen antag tokens handed out was because Regens crashed the server 20 minutes in by loading his ban list.

You see a lot of the same people roll antag because, unsurprisingly since it's the default settings (unless this changed), most new players don't have antags enabled.

[Ziiro]

I'm on a 3-month streak of no antag. But at the same time, I've disabled most stuff except traitor. I'd have more enabled, except I have my reasons (And I'm an IPC, which narrows things down further)

[ZN23X]

9 hours ago, Doukan said:

Any such system would only end up infested with shitty player drama. 

Like someone posting on the forum because they don't know if they'll ever get a shot at wizard or blob? 

5 times in a row?! I've never got antag 5 times even over the course of 2 weeks. Of course YOU wouldn't think change is needed. I wouldn't have generated the thought of my initial post if I had ever gotten antag 5 times in a row. Or maybe I would have? Same problem from the opposite side. I'd be okay with a 2 month break if I got 5 times in a row too.

...and to @Shadeykins point that a portion of people have antags set to no because that is default, that supports my point even more. So a chunk of the player base doesn't even have it turned on and I still rarely get it? So it'd be even harder if more people had it turned on? I may as well just turn all of em off because even if I practiced I'd still be clueless in a live round.

*sigh*

I know...its not gonna change. Anyone who has posted here has wasted thier time. Most suggestions are just blowing hot air unless you actually know how to code. If probably be better off using all the time I spend writing suggestions posts learning to code instead. Can't be that hard? YouTube DIY here I come!

*waves white flag*

Edited April 17, 2017 by ZN23X

[Bxil]

It's not hard to learn the thing. I am learning to become a programmer, and I encourage you to try yourself in it. But BYOND code keeps scaring me. Every time I try to learn it, I get scared away pretty fast.

[ZN23X]

49 minutes ago, Bxil said:

It's not hard to learn the thing. I am learning to become a programmer, and I encourage you to try yourself in it. But BYOND code keeps scaring me. Every time I try to learn it, I get scared away pretty fast.

I imagine it can't be any harder than learning to fix my own car, minus the potential financial and safety risk if I screw up.

...and minus the mess...

Edited April 17, 2017 by ZN23X

[Doukan]

4 hours ago, ZN23X said:

Like someone posting on the forum because they don't know if they'll ever get a shot at wizard or blob? 

Yes, you are the cancer that is killing us

I mean no, but yeah I play a lot probably a lot more than I should and imagine a lot of it comes down to just being around to roll more dice. Assuming Byond isn't self aware yet that's all it is. My advice to you would be to hop around different perhaps more fast paced servers every once in a while when you're ghosted or something, just to get a taste of their mechanics and maybe roll more dice.

[ZN23X]

2 hours ago, Doukan said:

Yes, you are the cancer that is killing us

I mean no, but yeah I play a lot probably a lot more than I should and imagine a lot of it comes down to just being around to roll more dice.

First of all, A+ on the first comment ???

More rolls of the dice would probably help in my case. I only have 1 or 2 rounds a day where I actually get to declare ready at the beginning. I play 3-5 rounds a day but earlier in the day it usually consists of me joining a round in progress and sometimes later at night, if the population is low, I'll wait till after the round starts to pick which job is NEEDED which would exclude me from any round start antag options. 

I get to play alot given all the responsibilities at this point in my life...but if it was a decade ago when I was living at home with a part time job and no kid I'd definitely be able to declare ready in more matches lol

Maybe it's not meant to be

Edited April 17, 2017 by ZN23X

[Shadeykins]

On 2017-04-17 at 5:33 AM, ZN23X said:

Like someone posting on the forum because they don't know if they'll ever get a shot at wizard or blob? 

5 times in a row?! I've never got antag 5 times even over the course of 2 weeks. Of course YOU wouldn't think change is needed. I wouldn't have generated the thought of my initial post if I had ever gotten antag 5 times in a row. Or maybe I would have? Same problem from the opposite side. I'd be okay with a 2 month break if I got 5 times in a row too.

...and to @Shadeykins point that a portion of people have antags set to no because that is default, that supports my point even more. So a chunk of the player base doesn't even have it turned on and I still rarely get it? So it'd be even harder if more people had it turned on? I may as well just turn all of em off because even if I practiced I'd still be clueless in a live round.

*sigh*

I know...its not gonna change. Anyone who has posted here has wasted thier time. Most suggestions are just blowing hot air unless you actually know how to code. If probably be better off using all the time I spend writing suggestions posts learning to code instead. Can't be that hard? YouTube DIY here I come!

*waves white flag*

I've gone 3 months without antag before, and I've gotten Antag every round for like two weeks (generally I ahelp to give my antag to someone else if I'm getting it too much).

It's absolutely fair, even if it doesn't seem "equitable". The fact that there's a rule about antag fishing should tell you how fair this is, when people who normally get antag are early-logging because they didn't get it.