FPK Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 As it stands, on boxstation the pair of welding goggles in the assembly line gets looted within five or ten minutes of round start, every round. Typically, an engineer will dash over to the assembly line window on round start, disassemble the window, then snag their prize before anyone else has a chance of getting it. The welding goggles getting looted this way has almost become memetic, the disassembled window a semi-permanent addition to the station. However the goggles themselves are not the problem. The problem is that they're a high-value item, located in a static position, behind a laughably easy to break barrier. Rushing the assembly line has become a tactic, a minor case of powergaming. I propose that the goggles be removed from their display-case-like static position, and instead be added to the maintenance loot pool. The place that they used to rest could be used as another spawn position for maintenance loot instead, or hold a pair of cheap sunglasses as a nod to what that table used to hold. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cidolfus Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 I assumed that the main attraction in the assembly line was the toolbelt. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovaniph Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 42 minutes ago, Cidolfus said: I assumed that the main attraction in the assembly line was the toolbelt. Many people may not know this, but tool belts (even security belts) can be easily made with biomass (Can be found at the Garden, Hydroponics, and I think the Research Outpost) 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cidolfus Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 I'm aware, but that takes significantly more effort than just stealing one roundstart. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovaniph Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) Would is be better if the welding goggles was a random maintenance loot item? Edited May 2, 2017 by Jovaniph Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZN23X Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 Then the powergamers who abandon their jobs and rush through maint at the beginning of every round can have them instead. I feel like this argument could be made for many items, not just the goggles. The toolbelt and tools in escape shuttle podbay. The entire old surgery room. Everything in tool the tool storage rooms. The hatchets and buckets in the garden? Where do you stop. I don't think the goggles need to be moved...nor any of the other items I've listed or forgotten to list but are of a similar nature. 41 minutes ago, Cidolfus said: I assumed that the main attraction in the assembly line was the toolbelt. ...and the toolbox down by the surgery table that can be used to fill said toolbelt. The goggles are just a distraction away from those more valuable items. 2 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDemonic Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 As someone who prefers welding goggles over the helmet (mostly for look) I'm the type to grab it if I happen to get engi or atmos and I would be quite sad for them to be removed for the simple reason of "people take them" as I don't see them being a High value item being much of a problem. If the item is taken 99% of the time right at the start by many different people (mostly engi), that static high value item isn't very static anymore. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdtalon Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, FPK said: Rushing the assembly line has become a tactic, a minor case of powergaming. Why is something power gaming because it's a useful item? I would also like to see these added to the pool of loot, also they should be able to be printed from autolaithes. In the grand scheme of things welding helmets are actually more useful because you can still have the benefit of wearing a HUD. Edited May 2, 2017 by Birdtalon Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Birdtalon said: Why is something power gaming because it's a useful item? The item itself isn't powergaming, it's moreso that immediately rushing to get everything on your "top ten items to become ultrapowerful for the shift" list is. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdtalon Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said: The item itself isn't powergaming, it's moreso that immediately rushing to get everything on your "top ten items to become ultrapowerful for the shift" list is. It's function is identical to welding helmets which is something which are a dime a dozen. I would hardly call it an item which will make you ultra powerful in the slightest. When you have things like RCDs which are much more powerful if you want to become "ultrapowerful." The only reason I like the welding goggles is because it means I don't have to give up my top hat which is a functionless item. Edited May 2, 2017 by Birdtalon Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 You seem to be missing my point. The item itself is not ultrapowerful. You'll note I said "list". The butt stock on a rifle is not what fires the deadly bullets. The entire rifle put together is. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadBySmiley Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 16 hours ago, FPK said: I propose that the goggles be removed from their display-case-like static position, and instead be added to the maintenance loot pool. The place that they used to rest could be used as another spawn position for maintenance loot instead, or hold a pair of cheap sunglasses as a nod to what that table used to hold. You cant do that! That would destroy the good old civ start marathon. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPK Posted May 2, 2017 Author Posted May 2, 2017 The welding goggles in the assembly line are a statically spawned unique item with functionality, located outside of both maintenance and a department. Their position in the assembly line breaks the design trend of other statically spawned unique items with functionality. Most statically spawned unique items, such as fireaxes and flashes, are located within a department or some hard to reach area. @ZN23X Toolbelts, tools, surgical tools, hatchets, and buckets are not unique items, as their numbers are not fixed. It's not possible to create more welding goggles. The driving force behind this proposal is a desire to cut down on powergaming encouraged by the game itself, starting with minor instances. An assistant rushing for the assembly line on round start is hardly criminal in comparison to some of the other more controversial stunts that players have become infamous for, but it's a good place to start. It's my firm belief that in order to make big changes, it's best to start small. These goggles are about as small as it gets. Why does the location of the goggles encourage powergaming? First, they're in plain sight of a hallway. Anybody can walk by them, making their location easy to find. Even though some regulars of Paradise likely know the exact coordinates of every secret and/or unique item, most of these items are kept within some secure location. That brings me to my second point, which is that the goggles are not located in a secure location. The assembly line isn't maintenance, but it isn't in a department either. Some have claimed that the assembly line is a part of engineering, but the prefix "abandoned" quickly invalidates any trespassing charges. The assembly line is laughably easy to break into as well, as anyone with a screwdriver and crowbar can pop open the window within seconds. There's no negative consequences to looting the assembly line, making it a low-risk/effort, relatively-high-reward scenario. To sum it up, why wouldn't someone go after the goggles? Players casually passing such an easy target wouldn't hesitate to snag them. However, the goggles are never casually passed by, because someone on round start has already taken them. If anything, moving the goggles to "secure" tech storage is an alternative to keeping them in the assembly line or moving them into the maintenance loot pool. Tech storage gets broken into almost every round, but at least the welding goggles would then follow the design trend of similar items. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadBySmiley Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) Litteraly the only reason that those goggles and toolbelt are there is so that somebody can break in and take them. They are not there for some engineer, they can get it from a table inside engineering. By moving them into tech storage theyre whole purpose is destroyed since engineers dont take stuff from there, and roboticist can just get the ones in RnD. Theres no reason to remove them since an Unnamed lizard seems to take them every shift anyway. Edited May 2, 2017 by DeadBySmiley Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdtalon Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 5 hours ago, Spacemanspark said: You seem to be missing my point. The item itself is not ultrapowerful. You'll note I said "list". The butt stock on a rifle is not what fires the deadly bullets. The entire rifle put together is. Well whatever you change, be it the topic of this thread or any other change for that matter will not change this. As a member of the armed forces you would want the best equipment to handle a situation that you are put in and it's no different in this video game. People will naturally gravitate towards whatever is the perceived "best" setup in terms of equipment in order to take on whatever challenges they face, combat or otherwise. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazbot194 Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 7 hours ago, FPK said: The welding goggles in the assembly line are a statically spawned unique item with functionality, located outside of both maintenance and a department. Their position in the assembly line breaks the design trend of other statically spawned unique items with functionality. Most statically spawned unique items, such as fireaxes and flashes, are located within a department or some hard to reach area. @ZN23X Toolbelts, tools, surgical tools, hatchets, and buckets are not unique items, as their numbers are not fixed. It's not possible to create more welding goggles. Why not just add them to the autolathe then. They have downsides and trade-offs, enough that they are available to just about anyone who really wants them already. You could also add the stipulation the autolathe needs to be hacked to make it slightly harder. They might be a limited item right now, but other non-limited items can already do more, such as the welding gas mask, welding helmets, any rig suit helmet, and almost if not all space suit helmets. Also, flashes are not fixed, robotics can print them out in mass. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPK Posted May 4, 2017 Author Posted May 4, 2017 Adding welding goggles to the autolathe would nerf welding helmets. Welding goggles are much smaller than welding helmets and don't take up a hat spot. If welding goggles could be mass produced, welding helmets would become nearly obsolete. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZN23X Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, FPK said: Welding goggles are much smaller than welding helmets and don't take up a hat spot. If welding goggles could be mass produced, welding helmets would become nearly obsolete. I think this is just a preference thing. Honestly whenever I'm the Mechanic I always go over to cargo and turn in my goggles for a helmet because I like the look I have with a welding helmet flipped up over goggles on my forehead lol I just realized I regularly work a bunch of jobs that are handed a pair of welding goggles at the beginning of the round, maybe that's why I don't see the appeal ??? That being said: +1 for they don't need to be added to the autolathe Edited May 4, 2017 by ZN23X Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralta Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 Just make them a tier 10 Engineering research item for the protolathe instead ;-) Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10201-move-the-welding-goggles-from-the-abandoned-assembly-line/#findComment-84866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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