Prototype medibeam

[EvadableMoxie]

If you feel people shouldn't be stuck being dead for extended periods it sounds like you are advocating for enabling respawn, since that will far more consistently prevent that than any changes to medical. 

[whiskeyfur]

16 minutes ago, EvadableMoxie said:

If you feel people shouldn't be stuck being dead for extended periods it sounds like you are advocating for enabling respawn, since that will far more consistently prevent that than any changes to medical. 

I'm not. what I'm advocating is for those who feel medical is too easy to be forced to deal with the consequences of making it harder. no ghosting, no logging out.. just sit there. If you want your character back in the round? Well, take a number, you are #18 with the other 17 ahead of you, we'll get you ... maybe. OH, cloning got bombed, guess you ain't coming in now. Thank you for playing. How about you be a cat (runtime) for a round?

Right now with the option to ghost or walk away, there's no real OOC repercussions to dying. they just go do something else. For those of us who are trying to actually RP? different story. I've seen at least one case where an antag who was to keep someone from surviving, deciding to bomb cloning instead of gibbing the corpse or incinerating it. That didn't just affect his target, that affected everyone else too.

Medical is already hard enough without all of these antags blowing chemistry up, or cloning, or the lobby...  So those that say it's gotta be harder, when there's already plenty of people who get tired of fighting a losing battle? And then the calls for 'shitty medical' happens.. why do you think that is?

Those who don't think medical is hard enough should realize the fact we're quite often the recipients of everything else the antags do on station.

Blow up the bar? We get the wounded and dead.

Killed someone? Medical gets the corpse, AND we become a target too.

Start a war? We're triage and healing as fast as we can.

Punched a hole in the station? We're the ones with the Salbutimol and Omnizine.

Someone walks in with low blood? We're telling security. Vamp gets busted.. which means we get targeted by the vamp.

Viruses? Virology is finding a cure and medbay is treating whomever is sick. Oh, those cured? They walk out instead of going to virology so they can have the antibodies drawn and reproduced. Seen it too many times as CMO.

not to mention the number of times people just storm our doors during the round and steal from our fridge even when there's nothing going on. Do you want all of our medical gear too to go with that SR?

[EvadableMoxie]

I play medical almost exclusively, and that is WHY I want medical to be harder.  Medical being harder actually helps medical players as it makes our gameplay deeper and awards mastery.  In theory, it's everyone else who suffers since how quickly and easily they can get medical attention directly effects them.  In theory. It might also be that making Medical difficult will result in it also becoming rewarding and veteran players sticking around. Again, as someone who joined in late February and has played almost only medical this entire time, there's basically no one who has been a regular in the medical department for this entire time. A lot of shifts, it's a really boring job, because a lot of times the Antags are focusing on their objectives with laser precision and not really creating much for medical to do. Which brings me to my next point:

Those rounds where half of Medbay gets blown up? Those are the fun rounds! What you do actually matters for once, and you need to be smart and creative to get what you need.  MedChem is blown up? What about SciChem? Will they help?  Or maybe print us a new chem dispenser circuit board at least?  Or is there another option? Maybe if there's no Mannitol I'll do surgery to fix the brain. No spaceacillin? Okay, we need to raid the bar and disinfect with alcohol.  No cloner? Shit.  Well... what about replicator pods from Botany? Or can we do a brain transplant?  Can I get access to tech storage and build another cloner? What's the best way to handle this situation? I need to think, make a decision.

The rounds when everything is going well are so boring. It's only when things have gone to shit that you can show your knowledge and make a difference. 

I don't want a medigun that a monkey could use.  I want my medical knowledge and expertise to actually matter. 

 

 

 

[CPTCoffee]

There should 've a point in the round where you look at the chaos around you and say,"Well, we're royally screwed." Knowing you've got a backup cure all in your pocket kind of ruins that.

[necaladun]

Back in my day (permission to groan)...

SR and defibs didn't exist. Limited supplies of plasma were needed to create cryox and clonex. The sleepers were unable to be upgraded...upgrades didn't exist. And medbay still ran pretty damn good if I do say so myself. I find it much less fun now with how many options there are and how easy people are to fix up.

While getting people back into the game generally increases fun, there is a diminishing return here. If revival and healing is too easy, combat, death and injury start to lose meaning.

SS13 is a brutal game. Death is part of it. Skill only gets you so far, luck is needed too. You may die due to something unavoidable and not your fault. I'm not even sure what OOC repercussions to death means though? That's...an odd concept.

This would be an incredibly powerful item. It wouldn't just buff medical either, it'd buff anyone able to beg/borrow/steal/make one. It would make huge amounts of things obsolete depending on how it's done, from synthflesh to bone surgery.

[whiskeyfur]

13 hours ago, CPTCoffee said:

There should 've a point in the round where you look at the chaos around you and say,"Well, we're royally screwed." Knowing you've got a backup cure all in your pocket kind of ruins that.

It seems like to me that point comes WAY too early, every time. Last night we had a 15-20 minute round to give you an idea.

[CPTCoffee]

1 minute ago, whiskeyfur said:

It seems like to me that point comes WAY too early, every time. Last night we had a 15-20 minute round to give you an idea.

But there's cryo, sleepers, defibs, strange regent, borging, the chem lab. If it really ends that early there better be a wizard or Lord singilo has risen. Other than  that it has to be a fresh medical team. Mediguns would null everything in medbay. There would be no challenge and we would lose a lot of regular medical players. 

[whiskeyfur]

3 minutes ago, CPTCoffee said:

But there's cryo, sleepers, defibs, strange regent, borging, the chem lab. If it really ends that early there better be a wizard or Lord singilo has risen. Other than  that it has to be a fresh medical team. Mediguns would null everything in medbay. There would be no challenge and we would lose a lot of regular medical players. 

That's not the point behind my comment. We didn't have time to upgrade or get any of that. 15-20 minutes after round start.. nope, done. Shuttle's called. This had nothing to do with medical. It was a nuke ops and they from what I gathered, they steamrolled the command and security. I'm not even 100% sure if that was what happened but... for me? ridiculously short round.

We didn't see anyone come into medical either. From my perspective it was a do nothing round and then go home.

Edited May 17, 2017 by whiskeyfur

[CPTCoffee]

18 minutes ago, whiskeyfur said:

That's not the point behind my comment. We didn't have time to upgrade or get any of that. 15-20 minutes after round start.. nope, done. Shuttle's called. This had nothing to do with medical. It was a nuke ops and they from what I gathered, they steamrolled the command and security. I'm not even 100% sure if that was what happened but... for me? ridiculously short round.

We didn't see anyone come into medical either. From my perspective it was a do nothing round and then go home.

Yeah shit like that happens.  Sometimes antags are really good. I don't like the idea of having a fix all option that will be abused when you don't really need it. Like I said before there are short rounds where there are usually heavy casualties like wizard and nuke ops. That sense of urgency and oh fuck am I going to die next make the round exciting. 

[whiskeyfur]

6 minutes ago, CPTCoffee said:

Yeah shit like that happens.  Sometimes antags are really good. I don't like the idea of having a fix all option that will be abused when you don't really need it. Like I said before there are short rounds where there are usually heavy casualties like wizard and nuke ops. That sense of urgency and oh fuck am I going to die next make the round exciting. 

No one ever said the medibeam should be a fixall option. Or at least I never said it. Broken bones should still be a major threat that requires surgery. it doesn't handle diseases, it doesn't handle anything beyond the base damage. I don't know why people keep thinking it's a cure all. It's not or at least shouldn't be.

I've already been able to do something similar to what I was thinking with an oxygen/cryostylne/cryodone cocktail in the field, and that's without upgrades at all. 40+ damage, gone in seconds. This is what more or less how a medbeam should function. I can get about the same effect with a pair of syringe guns.

I wonder if it's possible to use oxygen/cryostlane on a plasma man to do surgery without the need for them to be a corpse first...

Edited May 17, 2017 by whiskeyfur

[CPTCoffee]

12 minutes ago, whiskeyfur said:

No one ever said the medibeam should be a fixall option. Or at least I never said it. Broken bones should still be a major threat that requires surgery. it doesn't handle diseases, it doesn't handle anything beyond the base damage. I don't know why people keep thinking it's a cure all. It's not or at least shouldn't be.

I've already been able to do something similar to what I was thinking with an oxygen/cryostylne/cryodone cocktail in the field, and that's without upgrades at all. 40+ damage, gone in seconds. This is what more or less how a medbeam should function. I can get about the same effect with a pair of syringe guns.

I wonder if it's possible to use oxygen/cryostlane on a plasma man to do surgery without the need for them to be a corpse first...

Well OP posted that they wanted the midibeam to fix broken bones. The thing you're talking about with the cocktail is that it's not well known or readily avaliable. Patients even now are thrown into the cryo tubes rather than using the sleeper or medicine stocked from the freezer because it's simple and fast. That's what is going to happen with the medibeam. 

 

I totally agree with you on certain races need better ways to be saved.  I don't think this medibeam is the answer. 

[whiskeyfur]

27 minutes ago, CPTCoffee said:

Well OP posted that they wanted the midibeam to fix broken bones. The thing you're talking about with the cocktail is that it's not well known or readily avaliable. Patients even now are thrown into the cryo tubes rather than using the sleeper or medicine stocked from the freezer because it's simple and fast. That's what is going to happen with the medibeam. 

 

I totally agree with you on certain races need better ways to be saved.  I don't think this medibeam is the answer. 

What I was more or less looking at the medibeam for was a way to keep patient's alive as they're going to treatment (paramedic), to handle the simple stuff without even leaving the lobby, or on site say after a bar brawl. So if it ends up being the replacement cryo? GO FOR IT! Save Cryo for stabilizing patients before surgery, I'm good with that. Right now cryo has the double duty of handling simple injuries for the untrained, and saving patients on the verge of dying. A medibeam would split those two roles.

That's the niche I see it falling into. Not into a cure all, but a measure to stop the more mundane cases filtering into medical and jamming the process up more than it already is. If the guy has internal bleeding.. that's something a medibeam should only stop, not cure. (So a medibeam + miticloride is a good way to deal with IB on site.)

Essentially: medibeam = cryo on site without the constant use of chemicals. No different than a medibot loaded up with omnizine or with the cost of chemicals, that oxy/cryo^2 solution I suggested earlier.

[Cyiko]

3 hours ago, CPTCoffee said:

Well OP posted that they wanted the midibeam to fix broken bones.

No I don't

[necaladun]

Sorry if this rains on any parades, but without it being so nerfed from a regular medibeam as to be nearly useless, I don't see this at all happening. Even if made very slow and with a tiny amount of charge, there are a huge amount of problems with the idea.

The idea itself can't be limited to medical - it'll inevitably end up in the hands of antags, security, R&D, etc.