Tracking Implants for Security

[The Respected Man]

As title says allow security to use tracking implants on themselves or on Command. 

Not completely sure but i think you can order more tracking implants from cargo right now. If security gets allowed to use tracking implants on themselves then the tracking implants found in the armory should be the only ones on the station with no way to order more from cargo. Security will have to decide whether to spare them for prisoners, or blow them off on themselves as the four tracking implants are all they got. 

It is a great utility in that you can send messages to officers from the brig directly. Great for situations where the comms are compromised or comms are down. Don't forget about shadowling rounds with officers getting thralled. A tracking implant will either help security save their officers from enthrallment or find thralled officer and dethrall. 

At the moment it is a job ban worthy offense and I learned that the hard way.  Thank you for clarifying neca

Discuss. 

Edit: 

tl;dr

>Tracking implants should no longer allow you to teleport to the implanted

>Tracking implants should be fried by things such as an EMP

>Edit SoP to clarify when it is alright to use tracking implants on officers or others to avoid confrontations with the admins or that pesky IAA. SoP should only allow those who begin the round with loyalty implants to be a candidate for tracking implants, such as sec officers and the captain. (Unless security wants to tracking implant someone who committed a crime worthy of having a tracking implant. Or has evidence that a suspect is most likely a traitor.) 

>Tracking implants should not be ordered from cargo. The four implants at the armory should be all you have. You will have to decide whether to use it on prisoners or blow it off on security

Edited May 7, 2017 by The Respected Man

[Jovaniph]

I don't see how this is a job ban worthy offense..I'm looking at the server rules, SoP, and Space Law. If it really is a job ban worthy offense, then it should be mentioned somewhere in one of those three. Otherwise that's just a failure in at the administration level. (An oversight of some kind)

Edited May 5, 2017 by Jovaniph

[Cidolfus]

I assume you're unaware of or have omitted the fact that you can teleport directly to mobs that are tracking implanted?

Edited May 5, 2017 by Cidolfus

[SomanB]

I'm positive there's more to the story than "I git job bannu for using tracking implants".  I've used track implants a few times as HoS/Cap with no issue.

 

The thing is, track implants are an amazingly powerful tool, so to stay on the correct side of the rules, you only use them in amazingly dire circumstances.  Nuke ops declare war, bust those trackers out.  SIT targeting members of command, track em.  Abductors on a rampage, sure.

 

Busting out tracking implants at round start, with no defined threat just cuz they useful is amazingly high degrees of powergaming.  Think comms are compromised (they are, they always are, it's a good habit), devise an alternate system, and/or use it to your advantage. Slings thralling officers, then have officers patrol in pairs.  If they refuse, fire them.

[The Respected Man]

3 hours ago, Cidolfus said:

I assume you're unaware of or have omitted the fact that you can teleport directly to mobs that are tracking implanted?

Forgot about that one. Should be removed honestly. 

edit: 

Quote

"I'm looking at the server rules, SoP, and Space Law. If it really is a job ban worthy offense, then it should be mentioned somewhere in one of those three."

The use of tracking implants should be mentioned in security SoP to clarify in which circumstances tracking implants are acceptable.

"Only officers that agree to be implanted and only so in code red" 

Quote

The thing is, track implants are an amazingly powerful tool

That it is. Nerfs to the implants are part of the suggestion. Teleportation to mobs because they are implanted should be impossible and you cannot order more from cargo; the implants in the armory are all you should ever get. I can imagine an officer saying "HELP MAINT" and sec just teleports to maint, that's really shitty. 

As for 'there's more to the story' i also took meth as the HoS to meme (running around the station while saying GOTTA GO FAST). I did powergame with ephedrine though. Meth sucks. 

But the ban was applied because i have notes. Ban was lifted though after 10 minutes. Just needed to explain myself and where i got the idea. The whole issue was me using tracking implants. 

 

Edit 2: There should be ways to disable a tracking implant. EMPs come to mind. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by The Respected Man

[ZN23X]

I'm very pro-security and anti-antag and using tracking implants on anything other than perma or paroled prisoners feels a bit too powergamey to me. It'd make me feel as filthy as the antags that powergame too hard.

[The Respected Man]

Just now, ZN23X said:

I'm very pro-security and anti-antag and using tracking implants on anything other than perma or paroled prisoners feels a bit too powergamey to me. It'd make me feel as filthy as the antags that powergame too hard.

At the moment? For sure. When i tracking implanted officers i would always tell them it's just so if they get spaced or their body hidden it will only be a matter of time till they get cloned. I didn't even spare an implant for myself. Right now you can use the implants to outright teleport to officers which is very powergamey. Nerfs are in order. 

Tracking implants shouldn't be about them valids and more about not letting a cheesy spacing be the end of the round for security officers. 

[necaladun]

I'd like to just clarify something here - the jobban reason is as follows:

As the Head of Security, very early into the round, ran around tracking implanting every security officer, and the captain, without consent. You have an amazing amount of notes regarding security play.

 

Tracking implants with consent are not exactly something jobban worthy. Similar to chem implants loaded with healing chems/stims, it's something which is not SoP, and thus a bit powergamey, but not an outright "do it and we jobban you."

 

Chem and tracking implants don't get much use at all, and I'd be in favour of things which encourage their use as well as clarifying when it's appropriate.

[Birdtalon]

I think tracking implants are fine to use with consent or if someone has committed a crime worthy of having a tracking implant. Otherwise, just putting tracking implants on everyone for the sake of it is a bit of a dick move.

[The Respected Man]

6 hours ago, necaladun said:

I'd like to just clarify something here - the jobban reason is as follows:

As the Head of Security, very early into the round, ran around tracking implanting every security officer, and the captain, without consent. You have an amazing amount of notes regarding security play.

 

Tracking implants with consent are not exactly something jobban worthy. Similar to chem implants loaded with healing chems/stims, it's something which is not SoP, and thus a bit powergamey, but not an outright "do it and we jobban you."

 

Chem and tracking implants don't get much use at all, and I'd be in favour of things which encourage their use as well as clarifying when it's appropriate.

Yeah i wasn't spoken to before it was applied. I had to defend myself only after. I clarified where i got the idea of tracking implanting my officers, and i did ask my officers' if they were okay with the tracking implants and it was confirmed that they consented afterwords and the job ban was lifted.

Me getting banned after telling an officer 'Want a tracking implant?' gave me the wrong impression on how tolerated it is. If it is true that it's tolerable than that is great.

 

Chem implants on my officers aren't worth it tbh. They can leak if you were to get hungry which can cause unwanted problems. 

If tracking implants aren't modified and security starts using it on themselves there will be suggestion threads opposite to this one. 

Remove teleportation to tracking implanted individuals so an officer does not have an advantage over an antagonist. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by The Respected Man

[Spacemanspark]

That was not the reason it was lifted.

[The Respected Man]

22 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:

That was not the reason it was lifted.

The reason it was lifted was because i wasn't spoken to before it was applied and had to defend myself and clarify my side of the story only after the ban. No? 

We should stick to the discussion about the implants

[GunDOS]

I personally see this as a bit powergamey. For example, I'm a cultist and have converted the RD. Command figure out the RD's a cultist, then use the coordinates from the tracker to send a team of security to the RD's position on the science outpost. I myself don't like how easy that makes taking down a conversion antag.

[The Respected Man]

4 hours ago, Saul Argon said:

I personally see this as a bit powergamey. For example, I'm a cultist and have converted the RD. Command figure out the RD's a cultist, then use the coordinates from the tracker to send a team of security to the RD's position on the science outpost. I myself don't like how easy that makes taking down a conversion antag.

I didn't even think of using it that way, but you are right in this context it can be used to get them valids. 

Still though as said earlier SoP can use an edit regarding when to use tracking implants to prevent that. They should only ever be used on prisoners or people that begin the round with loyalty implants (security officers, the captain). And someone like the RD should only ever be tracking implanted during a forced revolution round to better monitor their status. 

I'll put this restriction up with one of the suggestions. 

[GunDOS]

2 hours ago, The Respected Man said:

Still though as said earlier SoP can use an edit regarding when to use tracking implants to prevent that. They should only ever be used on prisoners or people that begin the round with loyalty implants (security officers, the captain). And someone like the RD should only ever be tracking implanted during a forced revolution round to better monitor their status.

The thing about SoP is, that it's broken at every bend and turn, especially by security. Now, there is already a thread up on a new update to SoP which hopefully will give it a little more teeth. But in its current state, SoP won't stop the valid at all.

^

Said update