NT Policy/law: Clowns and Medical

[whiskeyfur]

Too often as a doctor I have to work around stuff missing or clowns in the area either blocking the way or in pursuit of their pranks, actually make my job much harder, to the point I am no longer enjoying the game when one is around because now I have to keep an eye on HIM as well as my patients, and quite often I have 2 or 3 at a time to worry about.

Right now, policy in game is that they're practicalyl allowed to.. but in a RP context, when it's literally life or death? Is there ANY common sense in pulling your doctor to the ground when he's trying to inject someone with Epi before shocking them again and hope they'll come back? That's happened to me TWICE now, and the second time I really did lost the patient. They basically quit the round.

I would like it to be actual space law that interfering with a doctor in the line of his work is punishable, and if said interference results in his patient dying, to be counted as murder. I also want every clown to understand that fully and STAYS THE HELL OUT OF MEDICAL! PRanks on a doctor who is not doing anything? Fine. But a surgeon in OR? HELL, NO!

yes, I am pissed. Clowns have ruined those rounds for me. Enough is enough.

[Varlun]

As a medical cyborg, I agree with this. And not just in the context of clowns. I'm tired of people pulling patients from me. A paramedic did it the other day. That being said, when I ahelped about it, they said to just ahelp whenever someone does it. So it does already seem to be the case at least with non-clowns.

[GunDOS]

I agree wholeheartedly, but I would go a step further. Personally disrupting another's job to such an extent that people are hurt and or die, is something Admins should be involved in.

Also, if it happens again you should probably Ahelp it.

[Sothangel]

If a clown or anyone else is interfering in your medical work to the point that somebody dies; push for sabotage or manslaughter charges and/or ahelp it.

If someone is consistently doing this, ahelp it. 

If someone is round in, round out, being a shit who is only concerned with their own fun to the point where it's involving the death of other people, that can and will be dealt with.

[Varlun]

That being said, I don't think many realize how annoying common this is. I would also like to include situations where non-medical personnel will be dragging someone towards medbay, dead or critical, and they go right past me who is very obviously a medical both. Maybe they don't understand the extent of my capabilities, but I have everything I need to stabilize someone. The most important thing is attempting to defib as early as possible. Sometimes it fails because of damage, so I have to heal, and this is the most common time when people don't have patience and feel like they need to drag them to Medway. I'm basically a walking fucking medbay, don't pull people away from or past me

[FPK]

 

Spoiler

 

Clowns interfering in situations like the one you just described are guilty of creating a workplace hazard, which is covered in Space Law. However, this does bring up a point that I've wanted to discuss for awhile. Clowns currently possess a de facto grief card, despite the rules saying otherwise:

Quote

Being the Clown or Mime does not give you a license to break any Server Rules, much less any Rules regarding violence. You are here to entertain the crew, and can do so via light pranking, puns, jokes or artistic miming

However, clowns constantly push the limits of the rules with their shenanigans, just as greytiders and powergamers push the limit until the IC or OOC repercussions hit them. Normally, I wouldn't mind this. People who push the limits of Space Law, SOP, and the rules will eventually learn that there are people who push back. However, the clown presents two unique issues, one ICly and one OOCly, that need to be addressed separately.

First, it's impossible to truly fire a clown. A clown's goofy name and comic-sans voice are powerful psychological tools, despite their innocent nature. Just like how a colored name in a chatroom full of white names draws unwarranted attention, a clown's goofy name and voice have the same effect on the crew. Firing a clown might remove what little access and privileges the clown previously had, but it has no effect on his ability to rile up the crew with only his voice. All that a punished clown needs is his voice, and maybe a mask, in order to continue the honking-spree.

Second, there is an unspoken rule that mass hiring clowns as the HoP is considered self-antaging. I feel this is the greater issue of the two, because it validates the clown's grief card. If the clown isn't allowed to grief, then why is hiring multiple clowns considered griefing? While no admins have come out and delineated the reason for banning mass-clown-hiring HoPs, my best guess is that HoPs who mass hire clowns are guilty of breaking rule 5, the play your role rule.

Quote

Choosing a Head of Staff role (such as Chief Medical Officer) means you will be expected to play to a higher standard of roleplay, seriousness and competence. You may be Jobbaned from Command if you fail to meet these standards, or if you ignore your duties;

Nonetheless, clowns 

 

 

I wrote the above spoiler for about an hour after midnight before asking myself what the fuck I was doing. Needless to say, I went to bed rather than finish it. Written below is a minimally edited excerpt from that spoiler.

Clowns who interfere with people trying to do their jobs are guilty of creating a workplace hazard. If additional collateral damage occurs due to the clown's prank, the clown is liable for the damages and must pay for it. Adminhelp clown behavior that you might think is griefing, and call security if a clown keeps pulling shit in game. People who push the limits of Space Law, SOP, and the rules will eventually learn that there are people who push back.

Edited May 8, 2017 by FPK

[whiskeyfur]

Think at this point I'm going to just start cracking down on it hard and ask security that if they see a clown with a wheel chair, confiscate it and return it to medical, and arrest the clown. (literally and figuratively on the 'clown'). Any clowns not a patient in medical is to be arrested for trespassing, and any interfering with a doctor is further guilty of that workplace hazard law.

What I would like to see is this be a more universal thing than just something the CMO has to announce for his wing. Too long clowns have enjoyed that grief card and like it was said earlier, enough is enough.

If I get to be known as the Nazi CMO.. so be it, but let them also remember that when my crew is cloning their ass that there is a thank you alongside that.

Edited May 8, 2017 by whiskeyfur

[EvadableMoxie]

The wording on manslaughter in space law specifically says you have to commit assault without intent to kill on the victim.  As written,. it would be a hard sell to say a Clown interfering with a doctor healing someone, even to the point where the patient dies, is Manslaughter.  And therefore, I think the definition of Manslaughter should be expanded to include any intentional behavior directly leading to an unintentional loss of life.

Creating a Workplace hazard is a much easier charge to get to stick, but a lesser one.  The main problem is security often doesn't care, and even when they do care, and hear you, and have the time to respond, the person is long gone. A Medbay guard to detain these people would be nice, but I don't think that's ever going to happen. The bar for new roles is so high as to make it effectively impossible to ever have one approved.

As for pulling patients away from Medical borgs, this happens to me as a human doctor all the time.  It's incredibly frustrating to see someone died 1 minute ago with 200 burn damage, take out my stuff to begin healing them so I can defib, only to have someone drag them away to cloning.  Or just having doctors straight up take a patient away from me.

[Varlun]

Sorry to go off topic- but how do you tell how long ago they died? And for a related question: What is the exact amount of time someone can be revived after defibbing?

[EvadableMoxie]

9 minutes ago, Varlun said:

Sorry to go off topic- but how do you tell how long ago they died? And for a related question: What is the exact amount of time someone can be revived after defibbing?

A health analyser will tell you the time of death. It can be hard to notice with all the info it gives you.

I'd have to check the code for the exact time, but it's around 3-4 minutes.

They have to have under 180 Burn/Brute to be defibbed, otherwise you'll get the 'severe tissue damage' error.

Edited May 8, 2017 by EvadableMoxie

[GunDOS]

3 hours ago, whiskeyfur said:

Think at this point I'm going to just start cracking down on it hard and ask security that if they see a clown with a wheel chair, confiscate it and return it to medical, and arrest the clown. (literally and figuratively on the 'clown'). Any clowns not a patient in medical is to be arrested for trespassing, and any interfering with a doctor is further guilty of that workplace hazard law.

What I would like to see is this be a more universal thing than just something the CMO has to announce for his wing. Too long clowns have enjoyed that grief card and like it was said earlier, enough is enough.

If I get to be known as the Nazi CMO.. so be it, but let them also remember that when my crew is cloning their ass that there is a thank you alongside that.

 

Ummmm, that's an easy way to get yourself banned... I wouldn't advise that

[Allfd]

AHelp,

The behavior described is against the rules.  Being a clown is not an excuse to self-antag.

The sooner  it is ahelped the better.  Its hard to do anything after the fact as much of what clowns do don't show up in logs as attacks and the admins have to actually witness it occur or its hard to prove later. 

[whiskeyfur]

19 minutes ago, Allfd said:

AHelp,

The behavior described is against the rules.  Being a clown is not an excuse to self-antag.

The sooner  it is ahelped the better.  Its hard to do anything after the fact as much of what clowns do don't show up in logs as attacks and the admins have to actually witness it occur or its hard to prove later. 

So what other options do I have? It sounds like a BUG then that clown attacks are not logged, and they've been running loose with it every game.

And why is it I would be banned if clowns got arrested for having stolen property and trespassing in Medical?

[Spacemanspark]

Physical attacks (punching and attacking with items) do log, the things the clowns do such as PDA slipping or banana crap doesn't, as a minor example.

8 minutes ago, whiskeyfur said:

And why is it I would be banned if clowns got arrested for having stolen property and trespassing in Medical?

Provided you don't harm the clown you should be fine.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Spacemanspark

[whiskeyfur]

Just now, Spacemanspark said:

Physical attacks (punching and attacking with items) do log, the things the clowns do such as PDA slipping or banana crap doesn't, as a minor example.

 

So basically I would be banned because the lack of logging favors the clowns... wonderful.

[SomeGuy9283]

5 hours ago, whiskeyfur said:

So basically I would be banned because the lack of logging favors the clowns... wonderful.

Please refer to what @Allfd posted- You will not be the one facing administrative action so long as you don't take matter to the point of violence and lynch the clown.

Clown-beating is the HoS's job

[Allfd]

14 hours ago, SomeGuy9283 said:

Please refer to what @Allfd posted- You will not be the one facing administrative action so long as you don't take matter to the point of violence and lynch the clown.

Clown-beating is the HoS's job

If you ahelp it, it could be your job.

[Purpose2]

1 hour ago, Allfd said:

If you ahelp it, it could be your job.

This.