Borer nerfs

[TermedClepe2]

Borers currently have no reason to care for the well being of their host or themselves while inside a host, as they are practically immortal aside from surgery removal. Host dying or getting hurt does nothing to a borer. To that end they can be complete assholes to their hosts and ruin their round with very little counterplay from the side of a host.

The only way to resist out of a borer control to my knowledge is to manually type the verb resist into chat or use it from the verb tabs, this is both unknown to many and very obscure. Even if one manages to resist a borer control, it lasts a few seconds during which time you need to rush the nearest sugar source to temporarily stun the borer and pray to have enough time to get surgery. This is especially bad for antagonists that get unlucky and have a borer inside their head, feeding information to all other borers about their activity. Their choice becomes to turn themselves in and go through surgery or overdose on sugar and become fat and unable to wear proper clothes while still having a permanent camera inside their head.

I'm proposing that borers be expelled from a host should the host get enough sugar into their system, preserving the existing pacifying effect of sugar at lower doses. I would say 45 units sounds reasonable as it would usually require medical attention to accomplish and fits into a pill.

[whiskeyfur]

I would think hurting whatever body part that has the borer should also affect the borer to a lesser degree.

As far as borer's sharing information about antags and such... from what I understand, borer's are for the most part loners, not a hivemind. as it says on the wiki...

Supervisors: You're on your own, kiddo.
Duties: Propagation of your species, survival of the Host, and ultimately your own survival.

I'm taking that to mean that they CAN cooperate.. they don't have to. Try striking a deal with the borer instead?

[Birdtalon]

7 hours ago, whiskeyfur said:

As far as borer's sharing information about antags and such... from what I understand, borer's are for the most part loners, not a hivemind. as it says on the wiki...

I'm fairly sure the borers have a hivemind chat which is completely contradictory to what the wiki says in that case. Medbay can always restrain you if you tell them you have a borer inside of you until it can be extracted. 

[whiskeyfur]

14 hours ago, Birdtalon said:

I'm fairly sure the borers have a hivemind chat which is completely contradictory to what the wiki says in that case. Medbay can always restrain you if you tell them you have a borer inside of you until it can be extracted. 

I keep looking for the opportunity to really play a borer. I had one shot and got squished as a slug so.. not a lot of opportunity there.

[EldritchSigma]

I am not sure on borers relaying information about Antags... Thats kind of a dickish move to do to be honest, especially if said antag has done his deed and just needs to escape alive. Have observed that multiple times now. Also There are so often borers who just kill their host or bring them in exceedingly dangerous situations which does not help the borer nor the host.

From what I understand borers are more or less symbiotic or at the very least parasites with benefits. They use you to breed, yes. They use you to live. But they keep you alive whenever you are in danger by excreting chems. I think its more an issue with the player mentality than with the borers themself. I have had 6 borers so far. 3 were utter assholes who did following: 

In Sec:

- Stunned people when me being sec to "propagate", 

- Set me on fire

- Set other people on fire

- Detonated random Welding Fuel tanks

- Pulled my flashbangs and threw them in a crowd

-Flashed random borgs.

- And assuming they know the resist timer they moved as far away from surgery and vendors as physical possible to avoid removal and start the whole deed again. Its not fun. Not at all. Its fun for the borer on cost of other people.

 

In Science:

- Hitting people with my stunprod, cuffing people with cable cuffs

- Printing a Sonic Jackhammer and disintegrating walls

- Making bad grenades. Really bad ones. As in they didnt even work.

 

 

Good experiences with borers involved:

- Getting them to help me out in dangerous situations

- Advising me on how to handle things

- Keeping an eye out for slippery spots

- Keeping an eye out for people who stalk me

- Rping (One made Thali think that Stuart is a clown, that was fun)

- And even making Thalis Retard Repellant and Stunprod obsolete due to ultra meth speed at will.

- Assuming control and subverting Thali in a none silly way.

 

So borers who actually do what they are supposed to do are fun.

People need to get out of that hunter seeker mentality of borers. If thats restricted by rules or something they will get better hopefully.

Edited May 19, 2017 by EldritchSigma

[EvadableMoxie]

I think it's more player behavior that has to be dealt with than a mechanical issue.  Yea, a borer can kill someone and then just leave the host... but then you need to find another host, which isn't so easy.  You're incredibly vulnerable when not in a host and you don't generate chemicals. The host can wrestle control back in 30 seconds, so unless the borer runs for the nearest airlock usually a borer can't kill someone that fast. And a borer who starts killing their host immediately is definitely not playing their objectives and should be dealt by administratively. 

If a borer is playing to achieve their objectives of staying alive and propagating, its' far easier to simply find a willing host.  It isn't that hard to do, since a borer can be a huge help if they are cooperative and all you need to do is spew some babies for them now and then. 

As far as giving info on antags, if the borer gained the info while a ghost that is OOC knowledge and not allowed.  If borers shared info via a hivemind, well, that's IC.  Borers are a risk.  You can always ask your borer not to share that information.  It's a reasonable request since as a borer your host getting killed or arrested is certainty not good for you.  Keep in mind too, info given to you by a borer isn't guaranteed to be accurate.

In some cases, borers can and should oppose antags.  Borers don't want to see their hosts, a.k.a. the crew killed.  To that end Borers working towards their objectives should be helping the crew defeat blobs and Xenos and Terror spiders.  

Edited May 20, 2017 by EvadableMoxie

[whiskeyfur]

I had the chance to play a borer in a round, two actually (the first time I got squished by an overeager security who I doubt knew his job... more valid hunter than security), the second time I had someone literally offered up to me. I couldn't cehck if he was SSD or what but.. took the opportunity, tried to talk to him more than a few times and never got a response or movement out of him. Finally the emergency shuttle arrived and apologized, took control of the body and booked it for the shuttle.  Their chems is crazy though... got stuck in a hole to space so I was hitting that salbulimol and hydrocodone, and managed to get out of the hole and into the shuttle... that was one crazy round.

Of course that valid hunter also came by on the way to the shuttle, knocked my host to the ground and forced a sugar pill without so much as a 'by your leave'... just attacked, stuffed, and got tangled up with a bunch of mobs running through so me and the host escaped. 

Not quite the RP I was hoping for with borer, but the idea that they can keep someone alive in space for a while is scary in and of itself. The hard part is knowing what their damage levels are or how much drugs are in their system... and valid hunters.

[Birdtalon]

12 hours ago, whiskeyfur said:

I had the chance to play a borer in a round, two actually (the first time I got squished by an overeager security who I doubt knew his job... more valid hunter than security)

You can't complain that the security officer doesn't know his job because he killed you as a borer. That is exactly what he should do to protect the crew. 

[whiskeyfur]

30 minutes ago, Birdtalon said:

You can't complain that the security officer doesn't know his job because he killed you as a borer. That is exactly what he should do to protect the crew. 

When he just charges up on someone, knocks them down with a baton, shoves a 30u sugar pill down their throat and then proceeds with the baton even more.. no RP, nothing said, no proof... you might be singing a different tune then. The proper procedure is arrest, take them to medical for extraction, and then release. Not administering sugar pills after suppression, no handcuffs either... 

[Birdtalon]

Just now, whiskeyfur said:

When he just charges up on someone, knocks them down with a baton, shoves a 30u sugar pill down their throat and then proceeds with the baton even more.. no RP, nothing said, no proof... you might be singing a different tune then. The proper procedure is arrest, take them to medical for extraction, and then release. Not administering sugar pills after suppression, no handcuffs either... 

Sorry I assumed that you meant you were in slug form when he killed you.

[whiskeyfur]

11 minutes ago, Birdtalon said:

Sorry I assumed that you meant you were in slug form when he killed you.

I did get killed once while in slug form, I never contested that. That was a fair kill.

It's the other attempt that I've got all kinds of problems with.

Edited May 20, 2017 by whiskeyfur

[Birdtalon]

22 minutes ago, whiskeyfur said:

I did get killed once while in slug form, I never contested that. That was a fair kill.

It's the other attempt that I've got all kinds of problems with.

 Fair enough then. Attacking a crew member as you explained is a bit escessive instead of arresting them.

[GunDOS]

I think borers are pretty weak already, you can just stomp them. Granted once inside a host they become powerful, but if you know you have a hostile borer inside you all it takes is for you to scream "Help! I have a borer in me" for someone to knock you to the ground and stuff you with sugar.

On 5/20/2017 at 1:53 AM, EvadableMoxie said:

I think it's more player behavior that has to be dealt with than a mechanical issue.

^

I agree wholeheartedly.