Make Cyborgs Great Again

[Driker]

 

Howdy!

Are you like me? Do you spend 99% of your playtime as a cyborg? Do you ever tire from the lack of diversity in the world of machine handymen? I know I sure do, which is why I propose that we take cyborgs a step closer to their Goon roots and make them interesting again!

What is this strange bald guy on the internet talking about you ask? Well I'm glad you asked! You see, the version of cyborgs that Paradise uses are a streamlined model, lacking in diversity beyond module choice. On goon however, you have a small variety of cyborg bodies that can be built, allowing for borgs of situational play. Let's take a look at some of the content. 

Sturdy: Cyborg with a bit of extra armor attached. Can take a bit more abuse, but is a little slower for it.

Heavy: Cyborg with a lot of extra armor attached. Handles incredible amounts of abuse, but is very slow.

Light: Cyborg with no armor. Extremely weak and fragile, but very fast to compensate.

Standard: your bread and butter cyborg. The only existing type on Paradise currently.

Right off the bat you have diversity that will impact cyborg play style. From high speed, easily destroyed medical borgs zipping across the station to save injured crew, to nigh immobile security borgs defending a checkpoint. The possibilities obviously aren't endless, but it's a change of flavor that I'd love to see. It's not only an improvement for the cyborgs, but for the AI as well, thanks to this little gem right here!

The AI interface board: This little beauty can be installed into a cyborg frame to make it controllable by the AI instead of a dead player. For those times when the AI wants a physical body to take part in the action itself.

Moving on to the upgrade list!

Here I'm just going to quickly cover some of the upgrades that Paradise doesn't already have versions of.

Efficiency Upgrade: Lowers base power usage by 1. Not that amazing in my personal opinion, but has the potential to be great with some tweaking.

Expansion Upgrade: Adds another slot for upgrades. Not needed with the way paradise handles borg upgrades.

Force Shield Upgrade: an installable version of the combat borgs energy shield. Eats up a ton of energy and soaks damage.

Heat Shield Upgrade: Makes the cyborg immune to heat. Doesn't work on goon, wouldn't serve any function here either, as cyborgs already are immune to heat.

Recovery Upgrade: Reboots the cyborg, allows the cyborg to break out of a stun from flashes, as well as xenomorph spit and tackles. Costs 2500 cell charge per use. Even as a regular cyborg player myself, I feel like the cost for this could be a bit higher, unless it's extremely expensive to create.

Repair Pack: A single use instant full heal for the cyborg. Paired with the self repair module, this upgrade can save you in a tight situation.

Teleporter Upgrade: Allows the cyborg to bring up a menu as if they were at the teleporter room computer and teleport themselves to any valid tracking beacon.

MODULE UPGRADES

Ever play one of the various modules and think to yourself “Wow, it would make this module that sacrifices everything to make me really good at this one thing worth it, if I had ___”? Well I'm with you my fellow synthetic lover. Now I'm not suggesting simply GIVING extra items to each module right off the bat, but instead suggesting that each module have an upgrade module that can be unlocked via Research and Development, like every other cyborg upgrade. I even have some suggestions for potential unlocks for these.

STANDARD

Cable Coil – For fixing things and whipping crew to show dominance

Rainbow Crayon – For writing color notes and making the janitor hate you [more than they already do, you monster]

Camera Monitor – To release your inner voyeur, because picking this module regulates you to standing around anyway.

ENGINEERING

Pipe Dispenser – Because running across the station for a pipe dispenser that is likely missing is enough of a reason for most engineers to not bother fixing atmospherics as it is.

Disposal Pipe Dispenser – Same reason as above, except with disposals.

Plasteel - For fixing the reinforced walls that science chemistry destroys EVERY SINGLE ROUND.

Reinforced Plasma Glass – For replacing windows on the station with snazzy looking purple versions.

MEDICAL

Advanced Hypo-spray - Omnizine, Mannitol, Liquid Solder, and Mutadone

Energy Based Advanced Trauma Kit – Less time in the cyborg recharger, more lives saved.

Energy Based Advanced Burn Kit – Same as above

MINER

Advanced Plasma Cutter – For digging ore and fighting Necromorphs

Rapid Crate Sender – You aren't doing this for mining points, get that ore back faster

Mining Satchel Of Holding – COLLECT EVERYTHING

JANITOR

Fire Extinguisher – All cyborgs should have one anyway

Drying Agent Spray – Extremely useful spray from tg station. Makes the clown hate you.

Trash-bag Of Holding – DUMP EVERYTHING

SERVICE

Food Synthesizer – Goon Service borg tool. Makes a small variety of foods. The fact we don't already have this is baffling.

Booze Dispenser – For providing mixed drinks on the go

Soda Fountain – For caffeinating crewman too lazy to go to the bar.

SECURITY

Taser – The tool security borgs gaze longingly at is finally yours to command. Never forget the words of Uncle Ben

Pepper Spray – For dealing with the clown, because you're a sadistic monster for picking this module already.

FINAL NOTES

Reminder that this entire thing is just my personal opinion. I suspect there are some of you that are fine with cyborgs as they are, and even some people that would like to see them nerfed, or given even less options and diversity, and you are obviously entitled to those opinions.

I also understand that these suggestions aren't something that can just be copy pasted over from GOON and TG Stations. Parts could be copied over, but a lot of reworking of said parts to fit the mechanics and materials of Paradise would have to be done. I just felt that putting this all out there, could be a good first step. Even just to see if enough other people actually care enough about cyborgs to want some of these suggestions.

That's all I can think of for now, so to end this post. I leave you with my beginning message.

 

[ParagonOfEvil]

As a frequent borg and drone player, I agree that they could use some spicing up. My thoughts.

For the heavy / light / etc frames, I like this. I remember in much older times, you could adjust how hardy a borg would be while making the bits and pieces by welding stuff to the parts as they came out of the fabricator. The same sort of concept could be applied here, if not just making the exosuit fab gain new borg part recipes via science. Back then, the armor didn't slow you down, so it's only fair that it would, like you said. Or if people don't think that's enough, it could have other affects - more armor makes item cooldowns take longer, and wears the battery down faster (since it takes more energy to move) etc. Frankly I wouldn't adjust the timers for the light borgs, being fast seems good enough there.

The AI interface board seems cool. But does that mean that the AI would just leave the borg in a charger while busy doing non-cyborg stuff? Does the borg only work where cameras work? What happens if you emag it? Is it restricted on what modules it can pick?

Upgrades: I know antags will be afraid of the Recovery upgrade, so a lot of people are gonna want to know how that works. How fast do the borgs recover once they try to use it? Is it possible to neutralize this, short of your battery running out? The Teleporter upgrade is extremely useful, I presume they still have to calibrate it to not teleport to space.. but what prevents emagged borgs from just rushing into telecoms and the bridge with this? Granted it's not like it's hard for a borg to just quietly break into the teleporter room and do these things, but unless there's a downside, I dunno about this one.

Engieborgs: On other stations you could build pipe segments with the RCD. It's fine if that's not how it works here, but engieborgs desperately need to be able to fix pipes. Humans lose the dang pipe maker way too often, like you said, nobody fixes atmos because of this. I can understand drones not having this, but borgs need it. As for plasteel / plasma, I agree it's nice to be able to fix stuff like toxins and the ai sat back to how they used to be. I only think they can't do that now so it's harder for borgs to effectively block off access to stuff (although there's plenty of other ways to make a room nigh inaccessable)

Secborgs: Personally I think a taser would be better than the disabler. I mean, you could keep both, to be able to still shoot through windows, but hey. And honestly, what fun is security without pepper spray? Honestly, it's a good way to stop the ever-so-common crew fights without literally shooting / prodding someone. Make it so it only refills at station / while charging if you need to, but I like this.

I see no problems with the other borg upgrades. Maybe people will think it's silly to make standard borgs slightly (barely) more useful, but hey.

At least we aren't trying to get replicants back. Nobody wants that. Just no.

[necaladun]

A lot of really good ideas there, a lot that won't really work and fit in. I'll let people debate which ones are which themselves until a PR appears for it.

[Anoonki]

Contrary to popular belief, I personally think disablers are way better for borgs than a taser would be, simply for the firerate and spammability. With a high cap cell, you can fire a disabler like 140 times, and seeing as it only takes four to drop a guy, it's pretty nice.

Also, pepperspray'd be pretty spectacularly niche, seeing as it's primary use is being a short range stun weapon that can't be used against you, but as a borg, none of your tools can be used against you anyways.

I don't play any of the other roles as much to know what's really good for them, though, but I know I love all of the janiborg's things.

[Driker]

8 hours ago, ParagonOfEvil said:

The AI interface board seems cool. But does that mean that the AI would just leave the borg in a charger while busy doing non-cyborg stuff? Does the borg only work where cameras work? What happens if you emag it? Is it restricted on what modules it can pick?

To my knowledge the AI only needs the frame to be in camera view in order to take manual control of it. Once inside, it functions like any normal cyborg would. Emagging causes the specific cyborg chest frame to be reprogrammed with laws, for a normal cyborg this turns you into an antagonist, however the AI controlled frame is being wirelessly controlled and the emagging does not transfer to the AI itself.

8 hours ago, ParagonOfEvil said:

Upgrades: I know antags will be afraid of the Recovery upgrade, so a lot of people are gonna want to know how that works. How fast do the borgs recover once they try to use it? Is it possible to neutralize this, short of your battery running out?

It functions in a similar manner to the Adrenalin implant. You active it to break out of a stun, except instead of expending charges, it uses a large chunk of your battery.

 

I had a private conversation regarding this thread with a friend, and they brought up some interesting points that also gave me another idea. They noted that they personally find cyborgs to be a horrible aspect of the game, lacking in backstory and customization options, noting that they'd much rather have something like ipc cyborgs.They bring up some good points, but I disagree that cyborgs are a horrible aspect of the game. However, this reminded me of another old cyborg trick from Goon.

Android: A cyborg that has been applied with synthetic flesh to appear human and fit in with the crew.

It struck me that Paradise has creatures known as automatons. I think it would be really cool if these could be used as a base for a more rp friendly cyborg that could be customized to fit in amongst the crew. Build a cyborg frame, cover it in synth flesh and it gets an identity creation window similar to the normal character creation screen, but limited to appearance only.

Again, just opinions and ideas with this one.

 

[ParagonOfEvil]

That's an idea right up there with clown borg. Or putting a posibrain in a H.O.N.K.

I see what you did there, though. As much as I love replicant/android, the biggest problem (of many, many problems) is that you now have a cyborg that can access the laws console... yeah that's up there with mediborgs able to surgery out brains and an EMP proof mod. Although. If you went a la Blade Runner and had Android as an antag role... trying to make sure nobody finds out you're a robot person because they'll kill you, meanwhile trying to achieve something to extend your lifetime before your battery runs out (science goals? pr for pro-synthetic goals?). Since you're secretly stupid powerful (unless EMPs exist), why not relegate that to an antag? Hell, give them their own laws at the start of the round, as their goals (and restrictions to what they can/can't do in a round). This is a fun idea now that I think about it... If syndies show up, they can emag them to help the syndicate... instead of having the ol' tater weakness of getting caught with a pda, they get caught opening themselves to stick in upgrades / repair their robotic parts (first ait wouldn't work! Which is a dead giveaway on what they are). Hmm..

[Driker]

25 minutes ago, ParagonOfEvil said:

That's an idea right up there with clown borg. Or putting a posibrain in a H.O.N.K.

I see what you did there, though. As much as I love replicant/android, the biggest problem (of many, many problems) is that you now have a cyborg that can access the laws console... yeah that's up there with mediborgs able to surgery out brains and an EMP proof mod.

Oh no, I didn't mean to suggest giving them functioning hands or anything of that sort. The idea itself was simply for having cyborgs that fit in with the crew. For roleplay purposes. 

[Kluys]

Just gonna put this out here, I'm to tired to form a coherent opinion on this but I do know some coding facts and I'd like to take down expectations on one single thing. Increasing or dreasing movespeed "slightly" is impossible because of how move speed works. A slower heavier borg might be nice but a faster one becomes an issue because of this move speed issue. A faster borg would essentially run around at the same speed overloaded gygax's, oddyseus's, meth abusers and pods move around with. This is way to fast for normal gameplay and will put borgs at a huge advantage compared to antags. Or any other being.

[Driker]

2 minutes ago, Kluys said:

Just gonna put this out here, I'm to tired to form a coherent opinion on this but I do know some coding facts and I'd like to take down expectations on one single thing. Increasing or dreasing movespeed "slightly" is impossible because of how move speed works. A slower heavier borg might be nice but a faster one becomes an issue because of this move speed issue. A faster borg would essentially run around at the same speed overloaded gygax's, oddyseus's, meth abusers and pods move around with. This is way to fast for normal gameplay and will put borgs at a huge advantage compared to antags. Or any other being.

I understand your concern and I thank you for pointing this out.

You are correct about how quickly they move. I hosted a private goon server to test different things out and the light cyborgs do move very quickly. This being said however, they also die extremely fast. They have no armor covering their components and while I understand that the issue itself is hitting them, they die very quickly when you do.

[shazbot194]

52 minutes ago, Driker said:

I understand your concern and I thank you for pointing this out.

You are correct about how quickly they move. I hosted a private goon server to test different things out and the light cyborgs do move very quickly. This being said however, they also die extremely fast. They have no armor covering their components and while I understand that the issue itself is hitting them, they die very quickly when you do.

I do have experience with the way the cyborgs are coded and it would be very hard to offer speed upgrades to these borgs, but if we remove the VTEC upgrade, I think the light, standard, study, and heavy could work out. If we put the standard borg at the exact same speed it is right now, the light basically having the speed of an upgraded borg, and the heavy and study being slower, I think it would be more then possible in the current code without any overhauls. It would still have some problems, but no more then what we currently have.

[ParagonOfEvil]

On 5/24/2017 at 2:27 PM, shazbot194 said:

I do have experience with the way the cyborgs are coded and it would be very hard to offer speed upgrades to these borgs, but if we remove the VTEC upgrade, I think the light, standard, study, and heavy could work out. If we put the standard borg at the exact same speed it is right now, the light basically having the speed of an upgraded borg, and the heavy and study being slower, I think it would be more then possible in the current code without any overhauls. It would still have some problems, but no more then what we currently have.

Frankly, why have the vtec upgrade at all if the chassis can determine the speed with no upgrades. Get rid of vtec, make room for new upgrades instead.

Also I'm down with upgrades to borgs for roleplay purposes. Give em skin. Let them wear clothes. Stick an ID on em. ERP in maint with them. I wanna see more options for them.

[Landerlow]

What I have been saying often.

 

 

IMPLEMENT THE SERVICE BORG UPGRADES AT LEAST! MAKE SERVICE BORG GREAT AGAIN!

Janitor: Trash bag of holding: YES x1000000. I have asked myself countless times why that isn't even implemented, either as update or default.

 

Engineer borg: Sure. But I think it has functionality as it is.

 

 

BUT PLEASE SERVICE BORG UPGRADES AND MODULES !!

[Spacemanspark]

Can service borgs have laser tag guns?

Someone please say yes.

[shazbot194]

3 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:

Can service borgs have laser tag guns?

Someone please say yes.

We can make them have whatever we want... if we get the maintainers to say ok.

Edited May 28, 2017 by shazbot194

[James5734]

2 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:

Can service borgs have laser tag guns?

Someone please say yes.

Does my yes mean anything? If yes, yes

[Spacemanspark]

Alternatively we could give them the candy shooter from /tg/, which literally lets you shoot candy at people.

Emagging the borg makes the candy do 3 brute on impact.

[ParagonOfEvil]

19 hours ago, Spacemanspark said:

Alternatively we could give them the candy shooter from /tg/, which literally lets you shoot candy at people.

Emagging the borg makes the candy do 3 brute on impact.

The laser tag... ugh, please no, the last thing I need is to be blinded by bored service borgs. Unless you made that an EMAG thing. Sure it's probably the weakest emag option ever, but... BLINDING! The candy gun is a far better idea. And while we're at it let's give emagged standard borgs working hands. How I miss the days of tater service borgs just giving people alcohol poisoning.