ID INVALIDATION, IAA, Paperwork and you.

[BiberDark]

 

As i said i will start a own thread for this suggestion. Here it is.

Improving: IAA / ID Validation / Paperwork / AI

 

Quote

 

I stated a long time ago, id´s should be remotely disable able. And this should be possible for the respective head of the department or the AI/Captain /HOP.

A real Antag would not stop this, so there is no balance problem. But it would greatly improve department work , if the CMO or RD is finally able to fire incompetent and lazy people on his own. Mostly this people vanish into thin air and are never to be found but they still have there access.  And it would be also able to stop a rouge head with all access if you can disable his id remotly.

You can add a barrier for Command Level Access ID´s , so the AI has to approve the invalidation of the serialnumber of the specific id. 

 

My proposal would be:

- every ID has a logged serial number

- the serial numbers can be requested and listed at the Hop console ( special console in  all department heads offices and the IAA office )

- the serial numbers of all employees in a specific department  can be requested and listed in the heads office

- the AI has a list of all serial numbers on the station, due to RFID magic in the station doors.

 

It works the same way as the request console in cargo.

{normal workers // not command}

- Heads/ HOP( maybe IAA)  selects a specific person to fire with a descriptions of the reasons

- The Head can then select to approve or deny this request / if there is no head the AI can do this as well

- if the request is approved the serial number of the ID is remotely disabled ( there should be two option reset  to civilian or complete removal of all access invalid) 

- ( the AI or Head enters the serial number into the console and clicks on the specific button [2 minute cool-down]

- this process is automatically printed out in the IAA office , so he can check and archive this files. Also he can see if it was a legit reason or not (check of SOP) --> also this stops one from secretly removing access from the complete staff)

 

{command}

- Captain or Hop has to request the removal of a head 

- they need two Command ID´s to start this process or the approval of the AI  (the AI is the control instance, on the basis of the actual laws / or if there are no other heads around - dead /lost/ kidnapped...)  

- if the instance approves the request the id is invalid (see above)

- a copy of this is send automatically to the IAA for check and balances 

 

{ special case HOS} OPTIONAL

- the Head of Security can request a temporal invalidation of a specific ID (15 minutes) in case of prosecution. For this there has to be added a reason and listed crimes of the person in the security database

- as always a copy of this process is automatically transmitted  and printed in the IAA office (for checks and balances)

- is there is no HOS the AI has to approve this request (or Captain if available)

 

 

REASONS

- the IAA always gets a printed copy of this event  -- > this will allow to identify misbehavior of Heads /Captain /AI

- the IAA has more work to do he can start an investigation is somethings seems fishy, or he thinks a specific head is incompetent 

- the IAA is the second and final control instance

- the IAA has also a request console for ID Invalidation

- the AI is a helper and supports the specific heads in there work and is a first control instance 

- It is assumed that the AI has a general overview and is neutral ( Laws , and this laws could be checked easily )

- nobody can secretly do this there are always printed copies of this event , with the ID who allowed this to happen and a specified reason.

- it will greatly improve the efficiency of a department, lazy, incompetent or misbehaving elements can be removed effective 

- this is for non antags crime prosecution

 

NEW Antag- tool

- ID Changer (2-3 time use)- changes the ID serial so it can not be found until you use it in a terminal or  doors with special access ( then it gets uploaded into the database and is visible to the AI 

- this can be used to change your and others IDS ( maybe within a specific range 6 tiles ) over RFID

 

NEW CONSOLE

- ID Console allows you to search for serials numbers of specific ID´s by name or department ( depended of your access level )

- you can invalidate a specific ID as head with your ID and AI approval  ( always 2 controls )

- you can temporally disable an ID for a short time 

- for invalidating Head ID you have to be on the bridge and you need 2 Command ID´s + AI approval

 

IAA/Hop - Console

- lists all IDs with respective department and serial number

- for each even you get a printed copy  ( ID / ID Owner / Reason / Time / Approved by (Name) )

 

 

[Enginseer-42]

Just gonna say this is gonna be abused to hell.

[BiberDark]

44 minutes ago, Enginseer-42 said:

Just gonna say this is gonna be abused to hell.

Please do not throw a comment in here, randomly. If you think it will be abused deliver us a reason. A description of how it is abused. So We/ I can think about a solution to this problem.

[Tayswift]

7 hours ago, BiberDark said:

A real Antag would not stop this, so there is no balance problem.

I don't understand this part. How would a real antag get around this? Once security knows you're an antag, they're going to have your ID disabled. This seems like it would affect balance.

[Bxil]

8 hours ago, BiberDark said:

A real Antag would not stop this, so there is no balance problem.

And that was the point I already tossed this out in my head. Not every syndicate wants to buy an emag or an agent card. And how would a vampire or a cling without already in posession of multiple IDs go through this? I see nothing else in here than making antagonists' job so hard that it becomes impossible to carry out almost anything.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Bxil

[BiberDark]

4 hours ago, Tayswift said:

I don't understand this part. How would a real antag get around this? Once security knows you're an antag, they're going to have your ID disabled. This seems like it would affect balance.

For that you can buy the serial id changer, maybe one telecrystal. This allows you to use the id two more times. And this tool can be used multiple times 2-3.

 

3 hours ago, Bxil said:

And how would a vampire or a cling without already in posession of multiple IDs go through this? I see nothing else in here than making antagonists' job so hard that it becomes impossible to carry out almost anything.

As changeling your first priority it should be that the other people don´t know about you. If they don´t know your name they cant block your access.  Maybe a separate tool/ skill for special antags. Changelings can cloak there IDs from scanners.

Vampires could do something like that.

If the other antags would have a way the hide and clock the id from sensors the crew cant determine what antag type is currently on the station.

The change of the serial code of an ID by syndics will also hide the ID as long as they don´t use it.

And yes they have to use a clever way. And do not forget if they can keep themselves in cover nobody will invalidate the ID´s in the beginning. This could also stop sensless mass murder of non targets.

 

PS:

As state this Idea should mainly focus on Non-Antags. If we could give real antags a relative easyway to circumvent this, then the problem is solved.

Edited June 16, 2017 by BiberDark

[Landerlow]

What could be done is that the antag's ID card cannot BE disabled, but that because it cannot be, it would stand out and be a bit easier to be detected perhaps. Also if an antag is stealthy enough and ensures they give their boss no reason to demote them, they have nothing to fear. I am in support of this suggestion, mainly to give the IAA more things to do.

[Tayswift]

9 minutes ago, BiberDark said:

For that you can buy the serial id changer, maybe one telecrystal. This allows you to use the id two more times. And this tool can be used multiple times 2-3.

So what you're saying is that there are balance implications.

10 minutes ago, BiberDark said:

As changeling your first priority it should be that the other people don´t know about you. If they don´t know your name they cant block your access.  Maybe a separate tool/ skill for special antags. Changelings can cloak there IDs from scanners.

Vampires could do something like that.

Okay, so basically you could tell who is an antag and who's not by seeing if you can see their ID. I'd also argue that the ideal changling should impersonate their target so well that it causes paranoia, horror, and confusion. This is the point of changeling, to basically recreate The Thing.

Your argument for this is that antags should be stealthy. So then this affects balance heavily because you MUST remain stealthy now, or when you mess up and go loud, your ID will be disabled. Stealthy antags are not necessarily fun or interesting antags. Remember, antags are supposed to make things more interesting, so if you force people to accomplish objectives without being seen or heard by anyone, then it won't be as interesting. Especially when the antag becomes functionally marooned after they're discovered.

14 minutes ago, BiberDark said:

The change of the serial code of an ID by syndics will also hide the ID as long as they don´t use it.

I'm really confused by this. How is an ID useful if you can't use it?

10 minutes ago, Landerlow said:

What could be done is that the antag's ID card cannot BE disabled, but that because it cannot be, it would stand out and be a bit easier to be detected perhaps.

How is this supposed to work? What happens when a changeling takes over someone else and uses their identity? You can still figure out who's an antag by checking if their ID can be disabled or not. This basically provides a flawless syndicate, vampire, ling, sling, and cultist(?) test.

Which reminds me, you forgot to account for slings and cultists. Now, whenever someone's been kidnapped by slings or cultists, disable their ID. Sling thralls and cultists would have a much harder time. Unless their ID gets magically protected upon being captured or something, but then it just gets way too complicated. Heads can already demote people out of their department so I don't see why this massively balance affecting change is necessary when the only benefit it'll provide is slightly faster demoting.

[Spacemanspark]

53 minutes ago, Landerlow said:

What could be done is that the antag's ID card cannot BE disabled, but that because it cannot be, it would stand out and be a bit easier to be detected perhaps. Also if an antag is stealthy enough and ensures they give their boss no reason to demote them, they have nothing to fear. I am in support of this suggestion, mainly to give the IAA more things to do.

We don't need another antag test.

as for this idea, I'm really not feeling it. This will be abused by heads that don't want to work with a particular person. 

There shouldn't be an easy "win" button.

[BiberDark]

41 minutes ago, Tayswift said:

How is this supposed to work? What happens when a changeling takes over someone else and uses their identity? You can still figure out who's an antag by checking if their ID can be disabled or not. This basically provides a flawless syndicate, vampire, ling, sling, and cultist(?) test.

Maybe the Console tells you that the id was disabled, but in reality it wasn´t disabled. So you only think it is. This would stop this kind of id check. Also you could have a cooldown so you cant autocheck all ids.

 

43 minutes ago, Tayswift said:

I'm really confused by this. How is an ID useful if you can't use it?

You can use this, but only a limited time. Until you reroll your serial number on your id card  * Remember other persons hop/cap /ai cannot see this.

 

45 minutes ago, Tayswift said:

Which reminds me, you forgot to account for slings and cultists. Now, whenever someone's been kidnapped by slings or cultists, disable their ID. Sling thralls and cultists would have a much harder time

Yes they would be disabled. But this is normal everybody in a security branch would disable stolen cards or access from people who are captured. But until somebody notifies that someone is missing you can do as you wish.

 

And an idea of an IAA and gameplay improvement should not only be denied because it could make someones live a bit more complicated.

[BiberDark]

7 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:

This will be abused by heads that don't want to work with a particular person

For that there are two instances the Ai and IAA to check for this misbehavior.

[Spacemanspark]

It's an OOC issue, not an IC one.

[FPK]

I don't think this is the right way to give legal more power. Being able to remotely disable ID cards would give antagonists an even worse time than what they have now. If the purpose of this change is to streamline the firing process, the addition of departmental ID consoles has already done that. It's a novel idea, but I don't think it's right for Paradise.

[necaladun]

Being able to remotely disable IDs is a huge balance concern far outside the scope of IAA, and has very little to do with them. It'll affect nearly every single major antag type, and make things a lot harder for them. Antags don't need this kinda nerfing.

I'd like IAAs to be better, but this is not the way for sure.

[whiskeyfur]

I would like to see that instead of disabled, their access is logged and reported. That way, you need to track someone's movements? Set the id on watched, even link it into their arrest state of watched+. 

To be a sneaky captain/hos, set a suspected cultist to watched and track him back to his friends...

[Kyet]

Awhile back, I considered doing a PR that adds an "ID Termination Console" to CentCom.

This would be a console usable only by admins, to remotely deactivate an ID in the event of a CC-enforced demotion.

I decided against it, even as an admin-only feature, as I felt it was gimmicky and not fun.

Having demoted people actually chased down and demoted by security/HoP is more complete, and, frankly, more fun for everyone involved.

 

I agree that IAAs may be a bit weak right now.

However, remotely locking IDs is nowhere near a good solution.

 

IMHO, a better solution would be: (A) IAAs sending in faxes as early as possible, and (B) admins making sure to respond to faxes more promptly.

The times I've seen the IAA's efforts be fruitless, either (A) they sent in the fax so late in the shift it made no difference, or (B) there was no admin replying to faxes.

 

[Enginseer-42]

Perhaps add a karma role in the form of a centcomm enforcer? Solely there to back up the IAAs with firepower if needed.

[FPK]

Faxing CC usually results in CC telling the agent not to bother them before doing everything they can to handle the situation on station. CC has set a precedent that it should only be contacted as a last resort, and that preemptively faxing CC can result in punishment. I understand that every admin has their own stance on how CC should respond to things like this, but this is what I've experienced so far.

Honestly, I don't see the harm in contacting CC before or during an employee investigation. If anything, it will alert CC that there is an IAA on station doing their job, and that CC should be prepared to receive additional faxes.

[Shadeykins]

Not in favour of this, especially not having the AI have the power to remotely terminate people's ID cards.

You should at the very least have the person's ID card in your possession prior to firing them.

[BiberDark]

On 22.6.2017 at 4:40 AM, Shadeykins said:

You should at the very least have the person's ID card in your possession prior to firing them.

And exactly this is the point, i think should be the other way arround. The shittlers will never give the id to you , hide them somewhere in the station in a locker under the floor i dont know. You will never find it.