Ideas for Duct Tape

[AzraelKnightquest]

i think the Duct Tape roll could be used for various other things, such as crafting stuff that I've seen in other servers. I think it would be useful and smart to borrow from these applications. Of course, WITHIN reason. I'm not expecting to be able to make a dang Gundam out of duct tape and so forth and I know that of course, there would have to be "balancing" done. But I stand by my belief and support of these ideas.

Duct Tape + Tray = Makeshift shield

Duct Tape + 2 knives + Boxing gloves = Knife Gloves (If you don't support this, Wolverine will get you)

Duct Tape + Glass Shard = Shiv (one that DOESN'T cut your hand)

2 metal + Hazard Vest + Cable + Duct Tape and use a Wielder = Makeshift Armor (I'm NOT suggesting something on par with security armor)

I believe Yogstation uses this and therefore the necessary logo's/symbols and coding should be accessible from there.

[Rumiluntti]

The classic ducttape wallet, duh

[FPK]

Make the makeshift shotgun recipe work with duct tape or wrapping paper.

Small and tiny items can be duct taped to the wall, because why not.

I think /vg/ station lets people tape forks to medibots and janibots, which makes them poke people when they pass by. If the attached forks kept some forensic material, I would approve this.

Using duct tape on cardboard boxes should seal them up. Sealed boxes can't be folded or have their contents dumped on the floor. Attempting to open a sealed box will take a second to remove the tape. Using a pen, scissors, or some other sharp item on the tape will instantly remove it.

Duct tape could be used to temporarily seal vents, assuming the vent is outputting at normal pressure. This would come in handy for plasma leaks. Not sure how it would affect game balance, but not many people flood plasma anyways.

Duct tape could be applied to the eyes to work as an impromptu blindfold.

These are all just random ideas, I'm not sure how balanced they are. Just spitballing here.

[Machofish]

Make duct tape usable to repair damage to cyborgs and mechs within a certain threshold - perhaps a limit of 10% integrity. Make IPCs somewhat repairable along the same lines.

Seconding FPK's idea to ducttape boxes. Make lockers and cargo crates ducttape compatible, too.

Allow duct tape to be used in place of a cautery during ghetto surgery.

Using enough pieces of duct tape and glass shards together should make a complete pane of glass.

If you're an atmos tech and your welder is running out, or you're caught without your toolbelt, ducttape should be usable in place of most tools when it comes to laying sections of ventilation and disposals piping.

Allow duct tape to repair damaged inflatable walls and inflatable doors.

Duct tape should be usable to blind cameras - the AI should be notified whenever this happens, and who is responsible.

Creating a duct-tape belt buckle on a chair should prevent you from being knocked out of the chair by most means: Best used for fire extinguisher+rollie chair joyrides.

Duct tape flashbang grenades together to make bundled grenades. Get job banned from sec immediately after using one.

Combining ducttape with wooden planks should make single-use medical splints.

Ducttape with a pair of prescription glasses to make them into cliche nerd glasses with tape around the bridge.

[AzraelKnightquest]

Guys, I love all your ideas for duct tape, I really do. There are a TON of things I think should be craftable (If you can make a friggin' shotgun, pneumatic cannon and shells and bombs, why the heck not a sword to go with the buckler?!) but I gotta say, I think only a few will do it and most coders are so swamped with suggestions, they prefer something quick and easy. I myself am trying to learn a touch of coding but it's going to be a while before I am anywhere near ready to do stuff for SS13. So don't get heartbroken if they only take a few suggestions.

[Enginseer-42]

Because swords are hard to make and shotguns aren't?

Bombs are also traditionally easy to make.

Personally I find the spear goes well with the shield. But if we're proposing alternatives, I'd suggest an axe before a sword.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Enginseer-42

[AzraelKnightquest]

They have a hatchet and a spear, but I'd like a sword. Also, my father was a tinkerer. He could make knives and so forth out of scrap metal and 550 cord easy, long as he had a hammer, file and a wielder. I ain't seen a shotgun properly made. Last I checked (And I COULD be wrong, I only spent 9 years in the US Army as a Forward Observer, attached to both Infantry and Tankers, I also worked with S2 and S1 and S6 when i worked at the Battalion TOC, so you could very well know much more than me), making a proper shotgun ain't exactly easy. In fact, in the game, without the modular receiver (Which one round I found flipping FIVE OF THEM JUST LAYING AROUND MAINTENANCE!), you can't make it at all. When I attended a class on improvised weaponry prior to my second deployment in Iraq, someone asked the individual teaching it, a SFC with a special forces tab on his shoulder, about crafting handguns and firearms (As, maybe COMPLETELY DIFFERENT with your experience, but in mine insurgents were able to scrounge and find old mortars and rockets and even sometimes made makeshift rocket launchers we called IRAMs but we hadn't seen any improvised firearms yet) . It was stated that crafting a makeshift firearm would be far more difficult and require exact measurements to the ammunition, as well as exact pieces to make an even moderately tolerable firearm. And that crafting the shells would be a difficult process in and of itself, so most insurgents hadn't even tried as they prefered to make IEDs on the road, VBIEDs, suicide vests or just use old rifles and weapons left from previous conflicts in Iraq.

  I could craft a makeshift sword with a hammer, file and a wielder and some metal scraps IRL. Wouldn't be pretty, wouldn't be the best sword ever, wouldn't be the most amazing thing Conan the Barbarian ever had, but it would be FUNCTIONAL. Personally, you probably could do. It'd take a bit, but you could manage it.

I severely DOUBT you could make a functional firearm without precise tools, materials and measurements beyond a toolbelt and metal. Personally, I think it would take quite a bit of training as well.

But maybe you're vastly superior to me in this area of expertise, if so, please state how easy it is to craft a shotgun or handgun. I'm rather curious as the only method I know of, again, requires pipe of the exact diameter of the shell to be fired, cut to an appropriate length, along with certain parts to put together and craft a fairly complex firing mechanism to make sure and hit a nub that hits the primer at the end of the shell, thus igniting the shell and producing the desired effect of the gunpowder going off and propelling the round forward, all properly connected onto a wooden stock and frame with a proper trigger design. Perhaps you know a simpler method?

[Enginseer-42]

Yes. A match and a sealed tube with one open end.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_cannon

Mind you, the improvised shotgun /is/ in fact shit compared to every other firearm in the game. And that's with it using a high tech receiver designed to be cobbled together with what's on hand.

But crude firearms are thousands of years old. And the requirements are things already on the station. A sealable tube meant to withstand extreme pressure, a combustible material, and something to be propelled by the reaction.

[AzraelKnightquest]

I was referring to an improvised weapon that fires a modern shell. However, a hand cannon is more akin a pneumatic cannon only with gunpowder instead of oxygen as the propellant. "Crude" firearms are thousands of years old, but that only supports my argument of "We can craft shotguns but not a sword?", in that a crude/makeshift sword takes even LESS materials than a firearm and less time and less precision to craft.

However, in order for that hand cannon to work, you'll need more than a match and a sealed tube with an open end. You'll need an appropriate fuse and you'll need gunpowder and appropriate ammunition. In short, you're making a ball-and-powder firearm from scratch. Also, since you're using it open end, you'll need to clean it afterwards and you'll need a sizeable portion of gunpowder to get a metal ball to fly any kind of decent range. An "improvised shotgun" would be a crafted weapon. That fires a shotgun shell appropriately. THAT is what is available in the game, THAT is what I was referring to and THAT is far more difficult than just, "Sealed tube with an open end". So, that leaves where you are going to get the black powder, the proper measurement of it, where you're going to get the appropriate fuse, how long it takes. REALLY ask yourself if you wanna be bothered with all that during a firefight. The improvise shotgun's FUNCTION is realistic, it's crafting something THAT complex so quickly that isn't...and crafting a sword is STILL easier than a hand cannon.

If you think otherwise, please feel free to craft them yourselves. I assume NO LIABILITY for any injury or damage done by your actions, by the way.

My argument is, you can make a sword out of metal. A wielding torch and metal and if you want it sharp, get a file of some kind to make it sharp. And you got a sword. A hand cannon? More complex, more difficult, more materials. Craftable, but nowhere near "easier than a sword". An improvised shotgun? Much more precision in crafting, many more materials (one of which is just LAYING AROUND) and more difficult to make overall. But somehow, very available. And personally, I would just like a sword. I can craft a buckler, why not a sword to go with it and some crud armor?

While we're on the topic, when it comes to a HELMET, would you suggest a hat or ushanka with some metal and duct tape?

[Enginseer-42]

I meant "Easier in the context of a space station where pipes that can hold thousands of pounds of pressure inside them are commonly available to random interns who for some reason feel the need to build ghetto weaponry." Especially when some past assistant took it upon himself to design a reciever to handle all the complicated bits that you can just screw a pipe into.

And that's just it. You don't NEED it to get any decent kind of range. The station isn't that big. It's a five minute walk from one end to the other. Most fights are taking place at a distance where MELEE is possible for crying out loud. And have you SEEN the spread on the improvised shells? It's basically useless unless you literally pull it out right next to someone and headshot them while they're down or you get tech shells.

The few times this isn't the case are the weapons that have scope features that let you extend the length of your screen, A La the mauler and the sniper rifle.

That's not a sword. That's a sharp hunk of metal. There is a difference.

Personally I'd suggest either a fire helmet or a engineering helmet with reinforced glass and metal and duct tape.

[AzraelKnightquest]

I beg to differ. If you use the wielder to properly soften the metal and press it into a general blade shape for the majority of the length and it extends longer than what is classified the maximum length of a knife, you have a sword. It's crude but it works. Like I said, a CRUDE/MAKESHIFT sword. Throw some cable coil or something for a handle. To make it sharp, use a file or whetstone on the flattened edge of the blade.

Also, do you think it should be a crude katana or crude claymore? Or maybe get to choose one?

[Anticept]

Blades also need to be quenched or they will not have any hardness at all. After that, they need to be tempered, or crystalline matrix will have internal stressors, making them super brittle. If you just let it air cool, it will be like annealing it and will be a flimsy piece of metal. They would lose their edge the first time you tried to cut with them.

Very makeshift indeed!

Edited June 20, 2017 by Anticept

[AzraelKnightquest]

Yeah but the coders probably won't go for it. Again, I'm talking a crude knife. Really, think about it: A spear with a glass-end would probably only work for one or two strikes before the blade breaks.

[Anticept]

Actually, I would love for improvised weaponry to have grades and extra steps!

That would feel crazy blacksmithy in space!

Edited June 20, 2017 by Anticept

[HeadyBucket]

On 2017-6-19 at 2:13 AM, AzraelKnightquest said:

i think the Duct Tape roll could be used for various other things, such as crafting stuff that I've seen in other servers. I think it would be useful and smart to borrow from these applications. Of course, WITHIN reason. I'm not expecting to be able to make a dang Gundam out of duct tape and so forth and I know that of course, there would have to be "balancing" done. But I stand by my belief and support of these ideas.

Duct Tape + Tray = Makeshift shield

Duct Tape + 2 knives + Boxing gloves = Knife Gloves (If you don't support this, Wolverine will get you)

Duct Tape + Glass Shard = Shiv (one that DOESN'T cut your hand)

2 metal + Hazard Vest + Cable + Duct Tape and use a Wielder = Makeshift Armor (I'm NOT suggesting something on par with security armor)

I believe Yogstation uses this and therefore the necessary logo's/symbols and coding should be accessible from there.

Have to say, I liked the idea and think the items you stated could be some good use, especially because the tape has an actual reason to exist, which in it's current state is barely used. I decided to take this opportunity to practice some DM since I'm new to it. Though I do have some concern since it's just another way for people to self antag, valid hunt etc. but I geuss we'll see what other people think.

The one that intrigued me the most was the shiv, I like the idea of an antag being able to get a hold of something like that so I started the code on that first.

I couldn't find the code for any shiv on yogstations code though, so I just made my own. Took about 3-4 hours, with mostly reading other code to understand what it does.

I attached the files with the code and some shiv sprites if anyone wanted to take a look, give some input, or add to it. It's all still WIP. Ill go through what I plan to do and have done:

-different glass types. currently done normal glass, plan on doing plasma and supermatter, which have different strengths etc.
-limited use, the shiv has a 1/3 chance to break slightly, which each time it breaks, it does less damage, until after the third break it's worse than the glass shard
-I added the screwdriver as a required tool to craft it, google glass/flint knapping and youll see why. Because of this I might increase the time to craft by quite a bit, and to balance that out, increase its damage or decrease its chance to break.
-you can dip the shiv in a toilet or a reagent container full of toilet water to increase its germ level and infect someone. It does infect but currently its not very good at it and needs some work (Also plan on adding fish water since I didn't yet look at the code for the aquariums etc).
-finally, I plan to make it so when the shiv breaks one of the 3 times, shrapnel gets inside of the targeted area

Made 4 glass shiv sprites, but I haven't made a sprite in about 4-5 years so I'm pretty rusty. Would be greatly appreciated if someone with good sprite skills took it upon themselves to make some glass shiv sprites.

I'm taking a break from all this until tomorrow, so what do you all think? I look forward to any negative/positive feedback and additions to the code.

Edit: forgot to mention that because the shiv inherits the glass shard, it can be used in surgery and do other things the shard does. And that because the shiv is intended for stealth, I made its item state null so in order to see it, you have to look closer at (examine) whoever carries it

recipes.dm

weapons.dmi

shards.dm

Edited June 20, 2017 by HeadyBucket

[HeadyBucket]

On 2017-6-19 at 2:41 PM, Machofish said:

Make duct tape usable to repair damage to cyborgs and mechs within a certain threshold - perhaps a limit of 10% integrity. Make IPCs somewhat repairable along the same lines.

Seconding FPK's idea to ducttape boxes. Make lockers and cargo crates ducttape compatible, too.

Allow duct tape to be used in place of a cautery during ghetto surgery.

Using enough pieces of duct tape and glass shards together should make a complete pane of glass.

If you're an atmos tech and your welder is running out, or you're caught without your toolbelt, ducttape should be usable in place of most tools when it comes to laying sections of ventilation and disposals piping.

Allow duct tape to repair damaged inflatable walls and inflatable doors.

Duct tape should be usable to blind cameras - the AI should be notified whenever this happens, and who is responsible.

Creating a duct-tape belt buckle on a chair should prevent you from being knocked out of the chair by most means: Best used for fire extinguisher+rollie chair joyrides.

Duct tape flashbang grenades together to make bundled grenades. Get job banned from sec immediately after using one.

Combining ducttape with wooden planks should make single-use medical splints.

Ducttape with a pair of prescription glasses to make them into cliche nerd glasses with tape around the bridge.

I like these even more than the weapons. If the shiv is proven to be not needed or something, Ill get to work on these immediatly.

My only problem though is with the taped grenades, you can already power game by getting two bluespace beakers and fill one with potassium and the other with water for a massive boom, wouldn't this make it easier to get the same big boom but with more beakers? unless of course  you only meant it for the flashbangs, even then I kinda question it.

[AzraelKnightquest]

Well, thanks for working those hours! Very impressed someone did that! However, if you're going to make the shiv break, you'll have to recommend the same for a spear made with glass to be fair and balanced (then again, what about making it to where a spear with a kitchen knife instead of a glass shard? No change in anything, just make it do more damage and more durable). Ultimately, I think it's great but it's up to the bosses if it'll be implemented. THANK you though!

[HeadyBucket]

don't quote me on this, but I think the reason the spear doesnt break so easy, despite being made of glass, is because glass is the only material that can be sharp AND widely found (I might be wrong on this), which can help with fighting blobs and big things like that. Not entirely sure though. Would have to ask someone higher up like Fox or something about that.

[AzraelKnightquest]

In that case, why make the glass shiv breakable? Don't get me wrong, I used one IRL before and they break fairly easy if you try to stab someone with it and they can break fairly easy with a slash, but then again, if we're talking realistically here, how many stabs to the head with a spear or slashes to the neck with a shiv does it take to kill someone? Takes more than ONE in the server. Wouldn't that justify not making a breakable shiv? RESPECTFULLY asking, got nothing but love and respect for you via your assist.

[HeadyBucket]

just because of its intended use. A weapon intended to be hidden, cause infection, and cause bad internal and external bleeding would seem OP to be so easily made and never break. The reason I added the previously stated traits was to make it unique, otherwise you just have a glass shard that doesnt cunt your hand, which you can get anyway if you just wear any kind of gloves.

but yeah I get your point, it is illogical, but I believe we need to prioritize balance and uniqueness in this case.

Edit: Infact, the more we talk about it the more I kinda think it's not really needed, although I think it is a good idea. I still plan on finishing the code/sprites though regardless. Some server might still use it.

Edit 2: in DOUBLE fact, I just realised how uncommon gloves are, yet tape is almost everywhere. Might not be such a bad idea to just make a glass shard that doesnt cut the user after all. If my initial intented shiv isnt so accepted, think I'll just make it like a normal shard, without the hand cutting.

Edited June 21, 2017 by HeadyBucket

[AzraelKnightquest]

That's fine, if nothing else just make it a glass shard symbol with the lower half looking like wrapped tape. That's what worked on other servers I've been on. What's your view on makeshift armor? On the other server, the symbol was virtually the same as the body-armor symbol but with patches of tape on it. It was NOT great armor, it was more of just "oh crap, stuff went to hell, better prep with whatever I have" type armor. The idea behind makeshift armor is "It's not good, it's barely above wearing a jacket in terms of gameplay but it's SOMETHING and it can be assembled very easily in the event of an emergency", not "let's craft stuff equal to security!". The idea is to be able to craft protection that is better than nothing or just clothes but FAR from anything significent like chaplain's crusader armor or security's body armor.

[HeadyBucket]

I'm not really opposed to it, I just think something like that should be handled by people who know more about the server and with more experience. I'll still work on the code/sprites, but I'm not really confident that they'll get accepted.

for the time being I think I'll just work on adding more ways for duct tape to be useful, rather than adding in new and potentially fucky items that just happen to require duct tape. 

I'll just show what I've done so far.

I've moved the code for the shiv I was working on into another file to never be used again for later use, and just made it so that you can wrap any shard in tape, removing the need for gloves all the time. Literally just a normal shard with tape on it.

By simply using a stack of tape on a shard (must have 3 or more in the stack) it changes...

From this 

To this 

I sort of lazily made these as a simple placeholder until someone with better sprite skills is willing to help out.

And yeah I couldn't resist not making the wallet Rumiluntti jokingly suggested.

 

Looking forward to feedback.

Edited June 22, 2017 by HeadyBucket

[AzraelKnightquest]

I really like what you did! If I had to pick just one, I'd pick the first taped one. Taped wallet is great, lol. How many pieces of duct tape does it take to make it, do youthink?

[HeadyBucket]

I've made it so it takes 5 pieces to craft the wallet, but it's probably going to change.

With all these new things you can do with tape, I get the feeling I should add in some way of getting tape, maybe from a lathe? There isn't a way to make them as far as I know, might be able to order them from cargo on the console. I'll have to look later. Maybe I could just increase the amount of tape there is in a roll? currently it's 10, it seems like a fair amount with the current uses it has, but now that I'm adding more, I get the feeling I should either increase the amount there is in a roll, add a new way to get them, or both.

[AzraelKnightquest]

You could also make it attainable from a YouTool. Just out of curosity, anything on the shiv? And again, what are your feelings on the makeshift armor with a symbol that's nothing but an armored vest symbol with duct tape on it? HONESTLY. Again, not wanting to make a super-armour or comparable to security or anything, just a BIT more than a heavy jacket or something.