Complaint regarding admin's conduct

[Quintinius]

 

This is not an Unban appeal, but a complaint. I don't really mind the 10 minute ban I was issued. But I do mind how the admin dealt with the situation, and I was instructed by ponies to put this here, but please tell me if it is in the wrong place.

Since this is not an unban appeal, I am not going to use the default ban appeal template. I hope that's ok.

The admin in question is MactoPerFuror

My Byond key is Quintinius

 

I'll try to keep it short.

 

- Me and clown had been fighting almost all round, with minor injuries on both sides

- It was all RP, as far as I know, neither of us had adminhelped about it

- After a long time of drawn out fighting, I was being chased by clown down the sec hallway

- I pushed him and stabbed him twice in the head with a bit of glass I found on the ground

- I understand this could be seen as an escalation of violence and thus warrant a ban

 

But the main issue comes next:

 

See here: http://imgur.com/a/p2OuF (I hope imgur links are allowed on this forum, if not let me know.) Album has all the proof.

 

- Admin gave me a formal warning for escalation of violence

- I tried to explain that me and clown had been fighting for a long time

- He said 'I don't really care', which I personally think is the wrong attitude - context is everything.

- He told me I had stabbed the clown and left the shard in, which was why he was warning me (fair enough), but seemingly not understanding why I did it.

- I tried to explain why I had done this, to give context, and asked if the clown had been asked for his side of the story, to validate my story. I didn't want to come across as a liar.

- The admin, not believing my story, and not checking the logs, and not asking the clown, said 'he never once punched you.' (Referring to the clown)

- If you look in the album, I have proof clown did punch me. I have NO PROBLEM with this, as we were fighting each other. I do have a problem with the admin making claims that are false, and not checking the logs. He then accused me of arguing with him.

- I said I was not lying. He formally warned me again. So I said, 'do you want me to show you the logs?' That came out ruder than I wanted it to, but seriously, he didn't bother to ask the clown what happened, or verify what had happened in the logs? And his response was to keep giving me formal warnings? Without even checking the validity of what I was saying?

- He then warned me again and I was autobanned for 10 minutes.

 

I raised this because I think admins should pay attention to the context of a situation, and should check the logs and other peoples side of the story before making absolute statements. I understand admins are very busy and receive a lot of ahelps in a game, but I think the admin's approach here was uncalled for.

 

Me stabbing the clown randomly for no reason is not the same as stabbing him after a long drawn out fight that had been escalating. Context.

Saying the clown never attacked me, without checking if this is true, and then banning me when I appeal? Is that really fair?

 

I apologise if I came across as argumentative, and I apologise to the clown if I ruined our RP fight by taking it too far. However, none of this is cause for the admin to disregard player claims and then make false statements, and then issue warnings and bans when a player tries to explain the situation.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

[Zgun]

 

When it comes to macto they have a hairtrigger temper from self admitted anger issues, always roll over and do what they want without fighting, even if you're in the right, unless you want to get a ban.

 

citation: http://80.244.78.90/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=977

Its been a bumpy road getting too this spot (and an emotional ride, lemme tell yah) But my philosophy is to spread the good feelings i got when i met Kodos. Not an easy task since i have anger issues, but i feel i have done good so far.

 

[Crom]

 

...Right. Thanks for that humbling insight Zgun. You sure your not the one with the complaint instead?

 

You are in no position to know if i talked to the clown, how often, how few, and if it was positive or negative. Sounds to me you have an issue with vengeance. THe clown and you were no longer together anymore, and the fight was finally over. But you decided to grab a glass shard with hostile intent after the fact. When confronted all you were concerned with was the clown being punished for leading you to stab him. Now that i gave you a mere warning to the point you gained an autoban, you must have vengeance on that admin. How dare he try to resolve this in a way that did not benefit or please the person victimizing others. Its almost as if that Badmin was trying to say that you was in the wrong, and was unconcerned over your pettyness and attitude. But that very thought must offend your sensibilities as well.

 

[VampyrBytes]

 

Ok... you break the rule about not escalating violence, receive a warning for it which, to quote you from the album

I would fully understand being warned about this

 

You then debate this on the grounds of RP and context, even though this is specifically covered in the rules....

 

3. Avoid Excessive Violence:

 

When provoked into extreme anger a punch or two may be realistic but Nanotrasen doesn't hire people who bludgeon someone to death with a crowbar when angry or bored.

Self-defense only justifies a proportional use of force and only what’s required to save your life.

Chasing a person down is not self defense, neither is crushing their skull with an oxy tank while they're down.

If you think murder or extreme violence is justified in response to someone's actions, then admin help for permission. Even if it is justified in an RP context, without admin permission it is not allowable.

Lethal force should always be a last resort, even for security. Remember as well that what the admins will permit and what security will arrest you for a two completely different things.

Saying your character is CRAZY LOL is not an excuse for this - that's just bad roleplay

 

As you can see by the highlighted section, Macto's 'I don't really care, behave' fits a lot better with the rules than your claim that context is everything.

 

You acknowledge that some things you said came across as ruder than you meant them to, and it may have seemed argumentative. The logs in the album show him saying to stop arguing with him, and then you receiving the further warnings when you disregard this.

 

The only thing I can see that Macto got wrong was that the clown hadn't punched you, and even with that I can see what happened.... as the log you posted shows nothing directly before the shard incident, which is probably where Macto looked. You can hardly expect the admins to read through everything that's gone on between certain characters upto that point in a round, especially when it's irrelevant anyway as a few punches are permissible within the rules.

 

To be honest, I'm surprised you didn't receive a ban straight out for sharding the clown, the rules are pretty strict on this server, which is part of what makes it a great place to play. In future if you break a rule and only receive a warning I'd advise thanking your lucky stars, acknowledging your mistake to the admin, and getting on with enjoying the game

 

[Caryl]

Seems to me that every Station has a KatProwl-type min in it. Boy do I sure miss him.

[Quintinius]

 

...Right. Thanks for that humbling insight Zgun. You sure your not the one with the complaint instead?

 

You are in no position to know if i talked to the clown, how often, how few, and if it was positive or negative. Sounds to me you have an issue with vengeance. The clown and you were no longer together anymore, and the fight was finally over. But you decided to grab a glass shard with hostile intent after the fact. When confronted all you were concerned with was the clown being punished for leading you to stab him. Now that i gave you a mere warning to the point you gained an autoban, you must have vengeance on that admin. How dare he try to resolve this in a way that did not benefit or please the person victimizing others. Its almost as if that Badmin was trying to say that you was in the wrong, and was unconcerned over your pettyness and attitude. But that very thought must offend your sensibilities as well.

 

First of all, you are again incorrect. Me and the clown were together (how would I stab him otherwise?),and the fight was not over, hence why we were still pushing each other. But it's minor, and I feel the truth doesn't really matter to you anyway.

 

And when did I ever want the clown to be punished? I actually wrote that I was OK with the clown's actions, and sorry for taking it too far. So, you've made that up.

 

Also, vengeance? Seriously? I already said I deserved the ban, and that this was not a ban appeal. Why would I want revenge on an action I fully support? Again, something you've seemingly made up yourself.

 

I'm saddened to see you not only ignore what I wrote, but then make up things that I have never said.

 

Unfortunately you seem to have completely missed the point I was trying to make, and instead are trying to have an impolite and angry jab at me with an ad hominem argument, backed up by outright fabrications. If you had a problem with my complaint then you could have voiced it in a polite, non-accusatory manner.

 

I can see that, with your mentality, this will get nowhere, so I am dropping the issue here. Disappointing, really. I hope someone else can show you there are better ways to respond to complaints than lies and abuse.

 

[Habalabam]

 

I suspect that if you had been clearer at the time about feeling justified in purposely ignoring an unambiguous admin instruction for IC reasons, then your ban would have been perma. The admin probably thought you were frustrated and was letting the anger get the better of you. However, this thread shows otherwise.

 

There is no indication here that you, at the conclusion of the ban, intend to start letting Admin PM instructions override your in-game justifications.

 

RP context is irrelevant to wether or not you do as you're told by an admin (the reverse of "context is everything"). The other involved player was clearly not enjoying your l33t RP skills. When the admin says to drop it, walk away. Fake amnesia for your character, if you need to.

 

[Quintinius]

 

I suspect that if you had been clearer at the time about feeling justified in purposely ignoring an unambiguous admin instruction for IC reasons, then your ban would have been perma. The admin probably thought you were frustrated and was letting the anger get the better of you. However, this thread shows otherwise.

 

There is no indication here that you, at the conclusion of the ban, intend to start letting Admin PM instructions override your in-game justifications.

 

RP context is irrelevant to wether or not you do as you're told by an admin (the reverse of "context is everything"). The other involved player was clearly not enjoying your l33t RP skills. When the admin says to drop it, walk away. Fake amnesia for your character, if you need to.

 

Uh, as soon as the admin started PMing me I walked my character into the bar and awaited my ban. I did drop it as soon as I was asked to. Not sure why you thought otherwise.

 

Also I don't understand why I am being accused of 'letting my anger get the better of me' when he is the one insulting me and making unfounded false accusations. Do admins suddenly have the right to be rude and lie?

 

[necaladun]

 

Considering the attitude displayed here, I see this as groundless.

 

I have said plenty of times "I don't care" to players. This is generally for much worse things such as the person screaming racial abuse at security for a 5 minute sentence he said was unjustified.

 

Had I been involved, I wouldn't have cared if you had been fighting for a long time either. Stabbing with a lethal weapon is an excessive escalation of violence.

 

The complaint seems here that you don't like how the admin spoke to you, and continued to spam an already busy admin after you were given a justified warning.

 

A 10 minute cool the hell off ban is well justified here.

 

I'm honestly surprised you weren't banned for longer for the stabbing, but I assume it's because there was context rather than a random assault.