Necaladun

[imsxz]

Admin Key: necaladun

Your Discord name (if applicable): imsxz

Complaint: I believe Neca's "anti-cheese" policy went above and beyond reasonable means.

I was a lowly scientist, looking for space loots for RND, as normal, and I cleared out the syndicate supply depot using a grenade. Later on in this shift, I went back to the outpost with a friend of mine to hang out and snoop on comms out of boredom. He spawned 3 armed syndicate commandos on us, one of which was player controlled who I assume was by him. This is already an unfair fight, and a ticket straight to ending our shift. Not only did he spawn these syndicate soldiers on us, he also set the vast majority of traitors that shift to have the objective of killing me. I believe that this was an unnecessary level of action from Neca, and that outright ending my shift on the spot for something he didn't like was very uncool. There is essentially nothing I could have done to stop myself from dying, all over a little bit of loot that i deconstructed in RND.

[necaladun]

Won't be handling this ofc, just gonna throw in for context what was done with the intents:

Upon noticing the raiding of the supply depot, and that Hestia was back at the station, I added the objective to (nearly) every traitor, and AOOC'd that someone had crossed the syndicate, and that you've nearly all received an objective to take them out. The intent here was to give a thematic objective, that would promote teamwork, as the target would be equipped with supplies from it, and would be difficult to take out due to this and their inherent robustness.

Upon noticing they had returned to the supply depot, ~30 mins(?) after those objectives were given, 2 melee and 1 ranged syndicate were spawned on the telepad in the supply depot, while the two were in the room above it. I controlled one to walk them out, but had difficulty because for some reason they couldn't walk properly (I believe something to do with gravity and simple mobs, as firing the gun threw me around, however the non-controlled ones moved quite fine. I rejuved myself to see if that would fix it before engaging, it did not.). One melee one managed to pathfind in there, and was taken down - not sure how, attack logs didn't seem to appear.

I teleported repeatedly to the tile next to me to simulate walking, and when in range, began to engage, bouncing back and forth due to the weird gravity affect. Hestia managed to pull out the esword from the first in there, but neither seemed to get a disarm or hit in before the SMG took them out. I don't think the third one I spawned on the telepad did anything but attack a window and a table.

The intents here was thematic response to an attack on a syndicate base, discourage raiding the place with rather cheesey tactics and metaknowledge of the layout/flaws, to increase the risk (which appears to be 0 of raiding that place), and to give a kinda "boss fight" with a high-risk high-reward potential, due to the amount of gear they had. I was surprised at the lack of response, and only noticed afterwards (due to me having darkness turned off) that they wouldn't have been seen until they were very close.

I'd also like to say that this was nothing personal against Imsxz, and I would have done similar to anyone else, and the degree of retribution (3 mobs, one controlled), was due to seeing two people there, and my complete lack of robustness in comparison to him - I was very much expecting to get disarmed and killed with the SMG, hence the AI controlled backup. Although I do dislike using the tactics used to cheese the outposts and the like, in general I believe Imsxz is a good addition to the community, adding to the danger and excitement of rounds quite often, but doing so in measured and balanced ways within the rules, and never being abusive or salty when taken down. This was not done out of any personal dislike or the like towards Imsxz, and I'm personally unhappy with myself that this turned out in a way that wasn't enjoyable to Imsxz as well.

@TullyBBurnalot or @Dumbdumn5  - if either/both of you would like to handle this, or have someone else suitable handle it that you appoint, I think that'd be best, and will accept any resolution the two of you agree on.

[TermedClepe2]

Round end antag list shows 2 more antags involved.

[necaladun]

17 hours ago, necaladun said:

I added the objective to (nearly) every traitor,

I didn't add it to the hijack ones, hence the (nearly) every traitor. Ross Scott was given different objectives by ansari because he wouldn't be able to stay for long. Chad Wolf wasn't given it due to hijack and I didn't want to interfere with that, as it's hard enough as is, and a rare opportunity to cut loose.

[TermedClepe2]

I would like to note that I personally raided the syndi outpost dozens of times on 100+ server pop with explosives and sometimes with nothing but a stack of metal rods and a welder, posing zero risk to me and have received 0 bwoinks, inconveniences or other interactions from admins as a result of it.

It would be interesting to see examples of similar actions taken against other players as I have never experienced or witnessed it myself before this incident.

Edited June 21, 2017 by TermedClepe2

[Spacemanspark]

Please don't post in admin complaints if you aren't involved. It slows down the process.

[TermedClepe2]

My mistake, I thought being in the same round and doing the same thing in previous rounds counted.

[necaladun]

1 hour ago, TermedClepe2 said:

My mistake, I thought being in the same round and doing the same thing in previous rounds counted.

Unless you're accusing me of not doing it to you but doing it to Imsxz for some personal reasons, then I believe this is utterly irrelevant. 

[TermedClepe2]

2 hours ago, necaladun said:

Unless you're accusing me of not doing it to you but doing it to Imsxz for some personal reasons, then I believe this is utterly irrelevant. 

I meant that I do not know of anyone else getting punished for raiding the syndi outpost, and found the claim that this wasn't aimed at him because it was imsxz dubious. So in a way I guess I am.

I am only responding now because I was directly quoted. Forgive me if I'm breaking any unwritten rules here, but there are to my knowledge no rules in place on contributing to an admin complaint. The admin complaint sticky specifically states "We do this to get feedback on what we do.", yet you deleted my post that displayed no anger or disrespect and was on topic.

Edited June 21, 2017 by TermedClepe2

[Dumbdumn5]

Apologies for the wait, as I had been busy the past week and a bit more. The usage of both traitors and a group of AI/sentient syndicate officers is fairly excessive for somebody in a soft suit, as the c20r can take out any no-low armor target in a matter of about 2 hits due to stamina damage, regardless of the weaponry they'd gained. Thematically the usage of these was appropriate, but gameplay-wise, the balance was shifted too far in the syndicate's favor and resulted in an unfair death. 

While I don't believe that the action was done on a personal level, as we have had similar events occur in the past ,though rare, I don't believe that the player's armor nor the difficulty in handling the amount of traitors set upon him were taken into account. I would urge @necaladun to test the damage of his own weapons on targets with similar armor types in the admin testing room first to become acquainted with the stopping power of weapons and to understand that traitors have access to one of the largest arsenals of antag weaponry when it comes to assassinating crewmembers.

I believe that the force of the implements used were severely underestimated and that the death of @imsxz was completely unfair. I would like to apologize for this lapse in judgement. Hopefully Neca can learn from this and do a bit more digging into the damage of his mobs before spawning them, as well as taking stamina damage into account. I'll leave this open for review and comments from both parties before wrapping it up. Again, apologies for the wait in terms of complaint handling, it's taken a lot longer than is usually expected for these.

 

[imsxz]

My thoughts on a way to improve the situation where most operatives had the objective to kill me, would have been to let me know that they were after me and given me the objective to kill all of them in return, or something like that. As for the operative NPCs spawned on me, I likely would have been fine if I had the weapons on me as was assumed.

[Dumbdumn5]

Alright, I'll do another @necaladun just so the criticism is seen and wrap this up, as it doesn't seem like there's much left to discuss, DM me if you want to re-open this for discussion, otherwise, moving to resolved.