SomanB Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 So, one of my biggest complaints about antags in general, and tators in particular, is the fact that an antag has to be perfectly lucky in every crew interaction, while the crew only has to be lucky once. Combined with, a confirmed tator will be tagged no-clone, while randome greyshirt who heroically sacrificed himself to kill the tator will get cloned, and....yeah. So, a new item to help mitigate that. I call it the SyndieCloner. The Syndiecloner is a fully upgraded cloner with autoprocessing, disguised to look like a locker. If our traitor manages to get unlucky and dies, no problem. In a few moments, he'll happily pop out of the SyndieCloner locker, ready to try again. It's not all roses and sunshine though. For one, SyndieCloner is expensive, something in the range of 6-8 TC. You clone naked, so the only gear you're going to have is anything you pre-positioned in your hideout. It's experimental tech, so it only works one time (no restocking it with biomass). The clone itself is unstable, so when it dies, it's over (Dust on Death). Also due to that instability, the clone cannot be pre-scanned into a regular cloner either. I think this will help mitigate some of the issues with Hero crew charging tators for disarmspam, as well as giving a second chance for those tators who plan ahead, but get caught by simple bad luck. It's a second wind, only one, and comes with some heavy drawbacks. Opinions, feedback, and coding viability always accepted and appreciated. Thanks! 7 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralta Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 I was all kinds of ready to downvote this into oblivion, but reading the specifics on how it works (i.e. one-time use and dust on death), I'm more willing to consider this viable. Lot to consider with this, so I'm gonna mull it over and respond again in a bit. 2 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domkek Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 I quite like the implications of a vengeful syndicate who tried to be nice, got killed and now has the express freedom to perform their objectives with little to no care about crew suffering. This is a nice post. 2 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunDOS Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 Hmm, this is actually a really great idea! I would make it 8TC as this is über powerful. Otherwise no complaints. Other than some syndicates won't be able to make use of it (Vox, Plasma, IPC). Maybe make the object itself glow green so you can see when it's working? So the crew can maybe stop the cloning while it's happening. While I'm at it, why not keep the clone time the same as the basic cloner. So the crew have a few minutes to find the syndicate being cloned? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomanB Posted June 21, 2017 Author Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Saul Argon said: Hmm, this is actually a really great idea! I would make it 8TC as this is über powerful. Otherwise no complaints. Other than some syndicates won't be able to make use of it (Vox, Plasma, IPC). Maybe make the object itself glow green so you can see when it's working? So the crew can maybe stop the cloning while it's happening. While I'm at it, why not keep the clone time the same as the basic cloner. So the crew have a few minutes to find the syndicate being cloned? I'm not a big fan of making it too slow or obvious, if implemented. I mean, it's a normal traitor, not like a nuke ops or changeling. They're going to clone in with absolutely nothing as is. Giving the crew enough time to hunt down, locate, and destroy the tator yet again kinda defeats the purpose of it. Fully upgraded cloner speed, I feel would be a good compromise. It's not so fast that they're going to pop right back in, but not so slow that sec has a chance to check every locker on station in order to "spawncamp". As for the noclone races, most of those have antag play buffs as is, like vox spacewalk and the like, so I don't feel TOO bad about leaving them out. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothangel Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 Could be pretty neat, actually. I assume that it would scan the person who purchased it, and wouldn't clone other traitors? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Saul Argon said: I would make it 8TC 11TC minimum - means it can only be done once. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomanB Posted June 21, 2017 Author Posted June 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Sothangel said: Could be pretty neat, actually. I assume that it would scan the person who purchased it, and wouldn't clone other traitors? Really depends on coding difficulty, but yeah. In a perfect implementation, the syndie spawns it in, climbs in the locker, and closes it. That's the scan. Once they hop out, it acts like a normal locker from there. When the syndie dies, the locker snaps closed, clones, then pops back open. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpose2 Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 1 minute ago, necaladun said: 11TC minimum - means it can only be done once. Or we add a system that allows for only single purchases of specific items. Which'd be easy enough to do, and sensible enough we should probably consider implementing anyway. 2 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Purpose2 said: Or we add a system that allows for only single purchases of specific items. Which'd be easy enough to do, and sensible enough we should probably consider implementing anyway. Shityeah 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunDOS Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 @SomanB The basic cloner takes about two or so minutes if memory serves (which it probably is not). The fully upgraded one is like 30 seconds. If we were to make it glow when cloning I don't see two minutes as a long time unless your crap at hiding the thing. I personally like everything to be counterable, that's just my opinion though. @necaladun Make it too expensive and it's never gonna be used, I would probably go with what @Purpose2 suggested and only allow it to be bought once. If your worried of someone buying a half dozen. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomanB Posted June 21, 2017 Author Posted June 21, 2017 Under my proposed idea, buying multiple would be a waste. As soon as it clones you, you get a no-clone flag set. A second one would be useless to you. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZN23X Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) I don't like it (POSSIBLY BIAS SEC MAIN) Not because I don't want traitors cloning, but I don't know if it will fix the problem of "bad luck" Let me explain why I put "bad luck" in quotes. I imagine on the antag side, people are mostly only familiar with thier experiences and things they see as a ghost. I arrest, process, and brig countless people. I also have to let alot if people go, people who later are revealed to be antags. Most of the traitors we catch are because one traitor went loud, we are code red, and we are essentially allowed to search anyone at that point. You'll then have the less experienced traitors who seem to think a radio chip and/or EMAG are 'standard gear' that they MUST have, both punishable by perma, who get caught with these items while not even in the act of doing anything wrong. This is partially bad luck, partially bad prep on the traitors part. And it's how we catch the majority of traitors (excluding ones that are extremely loud and violent) The biggest advice I can give traitors is, know your contraband. If you are not actively in the process of doing something that would get you perma, do not carry around an item that will get you perma. Don't call it in till you need it. Stash it somewhere or get rid of it when you are done with it. If you stash it and someone finds it, if there's no prints, you'd at very least have only lost the stash rather than ending your round. This cloning pod feels like a mulligan for inexperienced traitors. I don't like the idea of the really good traitors who are already unbeleivably hard to deal with having a reset button. It's unfair EOCs aren't cloned. It's also unfair that EOCs throw bodies of victims into the depths of space where they will never be found. But both are legit. This is making me want to write up a "Security's guide to being a better traitor" post. Despite only playing sec, I don't WANT sec to "win" all the time, I personally hate round where we crush the antags. I don't think this cloner is the solution to balancing things out. Edited June 21, 2017 by ZN23X Added another paragraph 2 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunDOS Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 @ZN23X makes a good point. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomanB Posted June 21, 2017 Author Posted June 21, 2017 It's not a reset button in the end. Its cloning, with a heavy drawback. Remember, you clone naked. Most times it would be used, said person will be known as a traitor as well. Lets also not forget, traitors ALREADY have access to a much better "reset" button. There's not much work to building a private cloner, upgrading it to autoclone, and using that. This idea, being an instant summon thing, has the noclone and dusting add on to compensate for that. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPK Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 I don't know what point you're trying to make in relation to this proposal @ZN23X, could you try to restate it in different terms for me? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZN23X Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 I just think the people who think they need this would be better off spending the TC elsewhere. Suppose thats not for me to decide though, right? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10652-new-item-the-syndiecloner/#findComment-88254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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