Spacemanspark

[TermedClepe2]

Admin Key: Spacemanspark

Your Discord name (if applicable):

Complaint: Despite claims that admin complaints are not censored and meant to get feedback on what you do, my posts in which I accused necaladun for singling out a player that related to the topic and gave feedback about the situation during which I was present were in fact censored by deletion from Spacemanspark and I was given a forum warning for responding to a headmin after being directly quoted.

Subforum description:

"The point of this forum is to have well thought out and clear complaints. Quite obviously all complaints must be polite. Posts that display too much anger or unreasonable thought will be removed. We do this to get feedback on what we do."

Sticky in subforum:

"Polite and well thought out posts are a requirement. All admin complaints will be held to a professional standard and never censored. If you feel that the admin complaint should be private you can PM any Senior or Head admin"

Edited June 21, 2017 by TermedClepe2

[Spacemanspark]

We don't censor things related to the complaint, hence why your first post was left up. Opinions are not facts; and not relevant to the complaint. We have never permitted such inside complaints.

When you're told to stop, it means 'stop'. Take it to PMs or somewhere else so you aren't slowing down the process.

[Regen]

Hi there,

As I mainly manage the forum, and am a senior admin, I'll be handling this complaint.

I will go and gather what information I can, and get back to you as soon as possible, hopefully not too long.

[TermedClepe2]

57 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:

We don't censor things related to the complaint, hence why your first post was left up. Opinions are not facts; and not relevant to the complaint. We have never permitted such inside complaints.

When you're told to stop, it means 'stop'. Take it to PMs or somewhere else so you aren't slowing down the process.

Which opinions are you referring to?

Which part of what I said was unrelated to the complaint?

I clearly said I did the exact same things as mentioned in the complaint many times over, and received no interaction from admins for it despite multiple admins being present and said actions surely notifying admins of explosions. I suggested that the admin interaction was due to it being that particular player and not due to his actions which were never punished before when done by anyone else. All this relates to the complaint, I stated all of this politely and without displaying any anger. All this was deleted.

I do not see which part you considered off topic or unrelated to the complaint.

The post for which you issued a warning was in response to a direct quote by another admin to clarify intent since he was unsure of what I wrote. In essence I'm being warned for responding to an admin where he quoted me because another admin told me to stop posting despite contributing to the complaint and being on topic.

I think you're in the wrong here Spacemanspark and are censoring the posts while using forum warnings to further dissuade me from even suggesting foul play, all because I asked for similar examples of other players being punished to this extent (as in the related admin complaint) for similar actions.

Edited June 21, 2017 by TermedClepe2

[ZN23X]

@TermedClepe2 I also offered an opinion that was in Neca's defense based on experiences I have had, and I deleted my own comments based on Sparks request. He wasn't just targeting you. Lashing out like an angry child being punished by your parents doesn't help. Guess what? The players ARE the kids in this analogy. The admins and maintainers are the parents. They pay the mortgage and utilities. They do the hard work. We just live (play) here. They don't owe us anything.

[TermedClepe2]

7 minutes ago, ZN23X said:

@TermedClepe2 I also offered an opinion that was in Neca's defense based on experiences I have had, and I deleted my own comments based on Sparks request. He wasn't just targeting you. Lashing out like an angry child being punished by your parents doesn't help. Guess what? The players ARE the kids in this analogy. The admins and maintainers are the parents. They pay the mortgage and utilities. They do the hard work. We just live (play) here. They don't owe us anything.

I do not appreciate the comparison to an angry child, since I have not displayed nor posted anything remotely offensive or angry.

I do not see how your personal experiences with Neca or comments on his persona are related to the things that transpired, unless they were similar circumstances. I on the otherhand mentioned repeatedly doing exactly what was described in the complaint with drastically different results.

Edited June 21, 2017 by TermedClepe2

[Kluys]

I'd like to say a few words on the matter since the situation seems to be heating up and I am largely impartial to this. There are two things that seem to play here.

1. Post hiding by spacemanspark
2. Neca alledgedly singling out imsxz

Ill begin by saying that on point 1 I can see where Spacemanspark was coming from. We had previous instances where people added opinions where we hid those posts to keep the complaint coherent. What is different here is that from your perspective you were adding information whereas from our perspective we already have confirmation that that wasn't the case. (I will get to that) This made Spacemanspark see your post as an opinion rather than actual information. The hiding here was done then to keep the complaint coherent, not to censor you. You both technically did the right thing but it turned into an issue because of a difference in perspectives.

For point 2 I'd like to explain to you why I think you weren't PM'd for something imsxz got their PM for. Imsxz in all likely hood got noticed because he found a dominant strategy and used it rather often. remember that we get a large flow of logs thrown at us, explosions, smoke grenades, mech weapon use, attack logs and a few other logs all have the same light blue color. If someone is beating someone up and you create a small explosion the log for the explosion might be hidden below those other logs. this wasn't really a matter of who the player was personally but who did it often enough to get noticed.

I hope that provides a little bit of info to you, the actual complaint is still being handled since there are other sides to this but I hope we can let this side of the issue rest if you're ok with that. 

Edited June 21, 2017 by Kluys

[TermedClepe2]

On point 1: I can see how it could be just trying to keep the topic succinct and coherent, but I can't see how issuing a warning for a reply to another admin that quoted me was justified.

Necaladun stated as much that unless I'm suggesting with the post that he singled him out, it was irrelevant. I replied that yes that was what I meant, logically making it relevant according to Necaladun. But by that time the post was already deleted and soon after even my queried reply, leaving me confused as to why one admin wants me to clarify and another warns me for doing so.

As for point 2: I hope you understand how I considered myself involved since I have done the exact thing as in the incident for weeks prior to it and how this could apply to me in the future and would have just made the exact same complaint had I experienced the same response. I rather not further delve into this in a proxy thread and think I made myself clear as to how I see the incident.

What I learned from this was that having vague guidelines regarding admin complaints makes them open to interpretation and causes needless conflict between parties that feel involved and others that feel they are not.

[Kluys]

I do understand. As I've said both parties thought they were doing the right thing but that failed to be compatible. I can see how you do feel involved.

[Regen]

Alright, I've had a dreadfully long nice relaxing flight, and had time to ponder a bit about this and gather some info.

Spark's been through the wringer, and realises his mistake in not taking personal contact with you using PM's, while it is by definition "censoring" you, it's also understandable that he'd hide the post in the context he was acting upon, that the post was in itself not needed for the thread.

I'd like to state that it was not Spark's intention to censor or silence your input, rather to keep the thread on point, and to some degree I think this is where a misunderstanding happened.

I will restore your post, but please keep the topic to the relevant complaint, as to this as well.

Please let me know if there's something that's not already on the table.

[TermedClepe2]

I think everything was cleared up at this point and this can be considered resolved from my point of view.

Thank you for the speedy handling of the situation.

Edited June 22, 2017 by TermedClepe2

[TullyBBurnalot]

Filing to Resolved.