Bxil Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 As the title says. Remove any and all kill objectives, where the main point of the objective is killing someone. I mean we have objectives which might involve killing someone (for example the CMO for their spray) and those should stay, as it's not important to ensure that the target remains dead. Replace them with the much more fun variants, such as: Torture XY and ensure that they stay alive to send a message. Humiliate XY by stealing all of their equipment including clothes. Acquire X ID cards. Have all mulebots go on a killing spree. These are just examples. Discuss. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enginseer-42 Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 I still like the idea of Assassination objectives. Perhaps add a requirement to assassinate someone in a public place? Then if they die someplace that isn't public it doesn't count. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-88425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landerlow Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Bxil said: As the title says. Remove any and all kill objectives, where the main point of the objective is killing someone. I mean we have objectives which might involve killing someone (for example the CMO for their spray) and those should stay, as it's not important to ensure that the target remains dead. Replace them with the much more fun variants, such as: Torture XY and ensure that they stay alive to send a message. Humiliate XY by stealing all of their equipment including clothes. Acquire X ID cards. Have all mulebots go on a killing spree. These are just examples. Discuss. I agree. But then again, I'm just unrobust and I don't like killing if I don't have to. I like the objectives you come up with though Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-88433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 While I do agree that new objective types would be nice, I don't see what removing kill objectives will do besides making the server feel like more of a hugbox. I can't speak for others, but that's a bad thing in my book. 2 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-88436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazbot194 Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 I still think if we remove objectives and let traitors run free to do what they want and cause chaos, it would be better for everyone. Want to kill someone, go ahead, want to make a meth lab, right on, want to hijack the shuttle, totally allowed, want to take command onto a field trip to the syndi outpost (hijack but with prisoners), do it. And if you really cannot make your own goals, I'm sure we can put a system in to give people an objective. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-88437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
willior13 Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 36 minutes ago, shazbot194 said: I still think if we remove objectives and let traitors run free to do what they want and cause chaos, it would be better for everyone. Want to kill someone, go ahead, want to make a meth lab, right on, want to hijack the shuttle, totally allowed, want to take command onto a field trip to the syndi outpost (hijack but with prisoners), do it. And if you really cannot make your own goals, I'm sure we can put a system in to give people an objective. I like the thought of them being more like wizards in this sense and while they are causing chaos they can have more to do, for example Steal the CE's hardsuit Make 250 units of meth Cause chaos on the station, make nanotrasen pay! 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-88439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarsMond Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 I would figure some of theese objectives would be rather hard to track, especially if you consider the game checks for the completion on round end from what i know. Easiest way to fix that would be removing greentext, which i would support, still has quite some things to consider. About the free choice on your objectives, the problem I'm seeing is that many people just activate their murderboner and hijack. Guy running around wordlessly bombing the shit out of the station while memecheming people in his way isn't really fun for most of the players involved. We could make rules on it, that disallows such things, but then we would never get gloves off hijack, i mean it's randomly assigned to someone that can go nuts then, similar to wizard, how would that be choosen when you can make your own objectives? 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-88440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatbananacyclops Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 Removing assasination objectives would make the game very boring. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-88442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldritchSigma Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 I much rather have a way to decide which character gets Antag if I roll antag... or at the very least being able to decide which Characters can turn into which antags. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-88443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazbot194 Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) 48 minutes ago, MarsMond said: About the free choice on your objectives, the problem I'm seeing is that many people just activate their murderboner and hijack. Guy running around wordlessly bombing the shit out of the station while memecheming people in his way isn't really fun for most of the players involved. We could make rules on it, that disallows such things, but then we would never get gloves off hijack, i mean it's randomly assigned to someone that can go nuts then, similar to wizard, how would that be choosen when you can make your own objectives? Well, you don't choose an objective, you just are told you are a traitor, decide what that means to you. So while yes, some people would choose to muderbone and maybe hyjack the shuttle, others can choose to be more creative with their objectives. Start a coup, make a meth lab, help other traitors, free all lawed synthetics, break everyone out of perma, lube all the floors, there are almost no end to what you can do. The suggested objectives are for when people can't think of something to do and and want a helping hand, but even these might not be tracked, so they could still be something like make a meth lab, disable all solar panels, turn off gravity, dismantle the PA... ... Steal 10 pickaxes, replace everyone's hearts with mechanical ones so emps kill everyone, turn X mostly synthetic/organic, law all free synthetics, make a second AI and have it fight with the first one, replace all the O2 in the air with nitrogen and make Vox station, replace all the air with plasma and make plasma station, steal all the stamps, send butt faxes to CC under the disguise of the captian/NT rep... ... break all the lights while stealing all the flashlights you can, make the clown think everyone is disrespecting the Honk Mother and give him a duel e-sword to defend the Honk mother's honer, free all monkies from viro and genetics, subvert the AI and try to make an army of borgs to command, just kill someone, steal all the gold from every department, steal all the tazers, make everyone deaf with flashbangs, spread LSD around the station and let it break itself, hijack the shuttle without killing anyone, convince command that the syndicate has taken over CC, force people to read books, dye someone's hair who is overly protective of it, start the grey tide, pass out guns to everyone, gib a lot of people and make them into borgs... ... send butt faxes to the syndicate, make announcements as a head trying to goat the wizards into a fight, buy 50 null_entry crates and pass out the contents, frame someone else of a crime, convince the station that there are nukies, somehow piss off all of one or two races and have them rebel from the station, secretly make everyone addicted to morphine, make radioactive spills everywhere, replace several key walls with uranium and steal all the radiation suits, emag every single door open, over pressurizer the station, drain the entire station of air, send fake reports of violence to take up security's time, pass out contraband like candy, make chainsaws and meth and "convince" people to run around and saw up their "friends"... Edited June 23, 2017 by shazbot194 MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-88444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted June 24, 2017 Posted June 24, 2017 If every traitor is allowed to go as wild as they want, then expect the shuttle to be called very early and mass bombings and plasma release nearly constantly. That however, is not the suggestion being given in this post. The suggestion to remove kill objectives I don't really understand - no reasoning has been given as to why they're a bad objective, or why there would be an improvement for removing them, it's just being suggested it be removed. The risk of being assassinated - and not just so they can steal your hyperspray - adds a huge amount of fear and atmosphere to the game, and I find is an interesting and fun objective, which can be quite challenging depending on your target, or your preferred style(s). 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-88468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxil Posted June 24, 2017 Author Posted June 24, 2017 4 hours ago, necaladun said: The suggestion to remove kill objectives I don't really understand - no reasoning has been given as to why they're a bad objective, or why there would be an improvement for removing them, it's just being suggested it be removed. The risk of being assassinated - and not just so they can steal your hyperspray - adds a huge amount of fear and atmosphere to the game It adds to it, yes, but considering what most traitors do; having someone randomly emag into your room and taking your head with an e-sword is not fun. They've done it to me, I did it myself, and I don't think it's something fun. Should we have players more creative, simple kill objectives would be marvelous; but I can't make a suggestion for better players. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-88483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantasmicDream Posted June 24, 2017 Posted June 24, 2017 Personally I dont think the kill objective should be removed. But it'd be nice to just have more objectives involving other players that isnt just murder added. I know there was the beat up so and so, break a few bones teach them a lesson is one. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-88494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malphystoh Posted June 24, 2017 Posted June 24, 2017 11 hours ago, necaladun said: The suggestion to remove kill objectives I don't really understand - no reasoning has been given as to why they're a bad objective, or why there would be an improvement for removing them, it's just being suggested it be removed. The risk of being assassinated - and not just so they can steal your hyperspray - adds a huge amount of fear and atmosphere to the game, and I find is an interesting and fun objective, which can be quite challenging depending on your target, or your preferred style(s). I agree here. Also what about the betrayal objectives when your target is another operative? That would totally be lost. I would infact like to see the kill objectives expanded, and perhaps even have a new type of Antag that is specifically an Assassin who has several targets and more unique gear. Can be communicated with to assist operatives, or get rid of loud operatives who compromise the operation... Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-88498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nayser Posted July 3, 2017 Posted July 3, 2017 I like the prevent from escaping objectives. I read it as kidnap some one. I've done it once, was fun. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-89485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxil Posted July 3, 2017 Author Posted July 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, Nayser said: I like the prevent from escaping objectives. I read it as kidnap some one. I've done it once, was fun. Exactly. Kidnapping is much more fun than killing. Even if I have a kill objective, I just kidnap, RP for the rest of the round in some way then: get caught. OR grant them an epic death. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-89486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted July 3, 2017 Posted July 3, 2017 25 minutes ago, Bxil said: Exactly. Kidnapping is much more fun than killing. Even if I have a kill objective, I just kidnap, RP for the rest of the round in some way then: get caught. OR grant them an epic death. This is a very top-down approach to a problem that makes a lot of assumptions about our playerbase. Not everyone enjoys or wants to roleplay torture, hostage taking, or what have you for most of the shift then killing them or getting caught. That may be fun to you, but there's a lot of people this isn't fun for. For some, fun to them is killing their target silently and living in fear for their life the rest of the shift. For some, it's juggling their job and murder at the same time while attempting to not arouse suspicion by anyone. Others yet, still, enjoy racking up a bodycount by baiting officers into chasing them (whether or not they get killed in the process). My point is, just out and out removing kill objectives assumes that the majority of our players like and enjoy a very particular playstyle (which, from what you describe, is most likely high RP); Para's aims are to be medium, which means that, yes, some enjoy playing in that light; some like a little roleplay with their murder, and others still just want to play with game mechanics. All of these are valid on Para, and out and out removing kill objectives for the sake of "roleplay" is marginalizing a good portion of Para's playerbase (namely mechanical players and medium-RP players). Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-89492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nayser Posted July 3, 2017 Posted July 3, 2017 Actually kill objectives can be removed safely. Just replace it with (my favorite) "Prevent from escaping". At the end of the day killing is an option to prevent some one from escaping, isn't it? So whoever likes killing will kill, others will kidnap and do whatever. 3 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/10677-remove-kill-objectives/#findComment-89500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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