Sign Language

[Jovaniph]

You know, playing as a mute character in the game got me thinking. Is it possible to implement sign language into the game? You know, like the same way you pick another language, but a new option? I think it'll be awesome~! For me at least

[Landerlow]

I like the idea, but how do you think it should be implemented? Any examples of how it would work?

[Malphystoh]

I was doing it myself using emote, but it would be a lot better with its own chat prompt. like :            sign" whats going on here?"  and it randomizes a trigger text explaining you're using your hands or sign language to say something. Make it a secondary language where only people who have it understand. Everyone else just gets a prompt that you're making odd gestures and symbols with your hands?

[PhantasmicDream]

Could always check out to see how other severs have it done.  
I know there is one out there that does have sign language as an option, but I for the life of me can't remember which server it was,  but I want to say it was Polaris.

[Vargh]

20 minutes ago, PhantasmicDream said:

Could always check out to see how other severs have it done.  
I know there is one out there that does have sign language as an option, but I for the life of me can't remember which server it was,  but I want to say it was Polaris.

pretty sure is was Aurora station.

 

Also, i would love this a lot

[PhantasmicDream]

It could have been,  as I said before that I didn't remember which station it was.

[Cyiko]

Just have sign language appear to anyone who doesn't know it as X is flailing their hands

[SkeletalElite]

Itd also be cool if you couldnt speak it while cuffed or in the dark and dim light makes it like a whisper.

Then you could make it work even if hit with say cling stings (cant speak it while cuffed tho so it works out cuz a cling is going to cuff anyways.

Also AI could be able to you speaking it even without any sort of malf upgrades, holopad or intercomm use

 

Edit: Also you can see it while deaf, thatd be cool as well

Edited July 16, 2017 by SkeletalElite

[MarsMond]

We actually have the system needed for this, language flags that make the language a sign, or hybrid language. Don't think it currently does support the inability to speak while cuffed, and not sure if a normal muting does get ignored. It should be understandable while being deafned.

I think a reason against sign language was: It's the perfect choice for powergaming: Currently, the tertiary languages are basically the same as your racial language, usable on comms, only understandable by a few; Sign language however does allow to talk while deafned, and i think through space, locally. Why wouldn't people choose it for the additional power?

[ZN23X]

Are we allowed to lynch mimes who speak using sign language? I even detest mimes who dare write things. May as well have not been a mime. I like to think that my role as a mime is not vital to the station so if I'm incapable of communicating something through mimery then I need to get better.

Edited July 16, 2017 by ZN23X

[Bxil]

Maybe make it so that if you are mute or deaf at roundstart then you have sign language - no other way to acquire it though.

[Jovaniph]

1 hour ago, Bxil said:

Maybe make it so that if you are mute or deaf at roundstart then you have sign language - no other way to acquire it though.

I think this is the best way because everyone can just choose to know sign language other than the other snowflaky language (gutter, tradeband, and clownish, etc). Unless there is another way to implement it, I don't see any other way.

[SkeletalElite]

6 minutes ago, Jovaniph said:

I think this is the best way because everyone can just choose to know sign language other than the other snowflaky language (gutter, tradeband, and clownish, etc). Unless there is another way to implement it, I don't see any other way.

You could make it so that you can choose to understand it but cant speak it unless youre deaf or mute

[GunDOS]

In any situation where you are defined or blinded, you could also say that your dazed also. So for example you could see the sign language being spoken, but you would be too dazed to comprehend what it means. Maybe have the message "your too frazzled to understand what their saying"

[Dinarzad]

4 hours ago, Bxil said:

Maybe make it so that if you are mute or deaf at roundstart then you have sign language - no other way to acquire it though.

This makes the most sense to me. I mean it's more logical to me a secondary language, but if balance is a concern, this is a good way to offset it. Having to sacrifice talking over a radio to be able to "Talk" in space or whatever.

[Regen]

make it donator only Kappa

[GuiltyBeans]

7 hours ago, Bxil said:

Maybe make it so that if you are mute or deaf at roundstart then you have sign language - no other way to acquire it though.

Only issue here is, who else is gonna hear you besides someone that is also mute/deaf? If no one else can speak it besides those select individuals then it defeats the purpose of having a way to communicate. If you want to go to a balance point of view, I can see some issues here and there. But realistically.. Sign language was developed so that the mute and deaf could hear and speak to those that learned it, be it a similarly afflicted person or a normal person wishing to communicate with a friend/family member.

[Jovaniph]

18 minutes ago, GuiltyBeans said:

Only issue here is, who else is gonna hear you besides someone that is also mute/deaf? If no one else can speak it besides those select individuals then it defeats the purpose of having a way to communicate. If you want to go to a balance point of view, I can see some issues here and there. But realistically.. Sign language was developed so that the mute and deaf could hear and speak to those that learned it, be it a similarly afflicted person or a normal person wishing to communicate with a friend/family member.

How else would you implement it? I believe everyone here kinda knew that this would be the problem hence the reason why there is no one coming up with a better solution. At this moment, even myself don't know a better way to implement it.

[GuiltyBeans]

Just now, Jovaniph said:

How else would you implement it? I believe everyone here kinda knew that this would be the problem hence the reason why there is no one coming up with a better solution. At this moment, even myself don't know a better way to implement it.

Good question! I can try and think of a way to do it. Then again, maybe just biting the bullet and putting it in as a secondary language will just be how it should go? Giving the players, all of you guys, the benefit of the doubt and trusting that it won't be abused. I'd not mind seeing it in the game and wouldn't mind keeping an eye out to see if it is used the way it's intended. 

[Dinarzad]

2 hours ago, GuiltyBeans said:

Good question! I can try and think of a way to do it. Then again, maybe just biting the bullet and putting it in as a secondary language will just be how it should go? Giving the players, all of you guys, the benefit of the doubt and trusting that it won't be abused. I'd not mind seeing it in the game and wouldn't mind keeping an eye out to see if it is used the way it's intended. 

I'd PREFER it this way, but I can't help but feel there's gonna be a group of people that'll ruin it for everyone.
But if the admin team is game to implement it and see how it goes, if it;s abused, then I wouldn't argue against it too hard, as someone that DOES have a Mute character.

[ConfectionCore]

As someone who enjoys playing mute characters, sign language as a secondary language addition would be a great thing to have - I'd like to see it added in favour of extending RP elements for mute and deaf characters (not mimes, obviously; that'd be a bad cop out). 

If we implement it, so as for not pre-emptively punishing those who'd enjoy it for the sake of the shitters, it'd probably be best to just have a no nonsense policy regarding anyone who would abuse it despite knowing better. 

[Enginseer-42]

Is talking while deafened and in local space with people close enough to see you really that much of a balance concern?

You can't sign language over a radio, so it's not like it's going to effect anyone who can't see you already. And generally people can mime things already to communicate. This just makes it slightly easier at the cost of your secondary language.

[DrunkDwarf]

Thought i'd take a jab at trying to implement this, was pretty straightforward, there was already some legacy code for sign language there to make use of.

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/8299

[Bobalobdob]

On 7/16/2017 at 7:32 PM, Dinarzad said:

Maybe make it so that if you are mute or deaf at roundstart then you have sign language - no other way to acquire it though.

The whole point of sign language (which I am currently learning) is to be able to speak to other speaking or deaf people, allowing you to communicate despite being nonverbal. If ONLY deaf people could speak sign language, there would be the same kind of prejudice there was back in the 19th and early 20th centuries. 

My contribution: make sign language a ":0" language, can't use understand it while it's dark, and you have, to be able to use your hands to use it.

[DrunkDwarf]

6 minutes ago, Bobalobdob said:

The whole point of sign language (which I am currently learning) is to be able to speak to other speaking or deaf people, allowing you to communicate despite being nonverbal. If ONLY deaf people could speak sign language, there would be the same kind of prejudice there was back in the 19th and early 20th centuries. 

My contribution: make sign language a ":0" language, can't use understand it while it's dark, and you have, to be able to use your hands to use it.

The PR I currently have submitted for this, works this way. Doesn't work if you can't see, have to have both hands free (and both functional), and obviously, people "see" it even if they can't hear. Though, can't sign when stunned and such, or restrained, stuff like that.

The only things i've got left to add to it, is changing the range drop-off, so from further away it acts more like whispering, you can make out they're trying to sign, but can't make out all of the words clearly. And maybe some sort of mixed up words if drunk, or clumsy, etc.