Admin Complaint: Spacemanspark

[Arac]

Admin Key: Spacemanspark

Your Discord name (if applicable): Aracino

Complaint: So I was playing a round as chappy as Ki'Li'Mi'Na, as usualy. Got the chapel looking nice, and decided to wear the witchhunter set and ask the hop to make my name "Vampire hunter". It's at this point that an admin, that I don't know of (or multiple admins) decided it'd be funny to sick 3 vampire antags on me, as their sole objective. I wasn't giving prior warning or a way to fend off these vampires, and I just got off a ban. So I'm sorry for being hesitant to attack someone who's randomly firing their disabler at me, while riding a mule bot. Round in question had Sam Aria and the hop Gary Potsman sent after me, and one other vampire that I don't know of. None of them used their actual powers, both arming themselves with a ranged stun weapon and killing me. First, I was killed by Gary via a mule bot that had a pAI in it, after being hit by his disabler. I was then spaced since he gave himself all access, and he used my mass driver to send me and about 7 other people into space. I was later recovered and cloned, with multiple items (namely my ID) missing. I then went to get a new id after sulking in the chapel for a bit, to then get shot at randomly by Sam Aria. I tried to rp it and ask why she was doing that, since I talked to her earlier in the round and she didn't have any malicious intent.  I proceed to get stunned, cuffed, drag through mait then having my body dumped in the space area between virology mait and xenobiology. So overall, I'm a bit pissed that I had SO MANY well armed antags sent after me, with no warning that I'd be hunted to this degree. Normally I wouldn't say to demote the admins, but given this large annoyance of me being hunted out of the round for a shitty reason, I'd like their admin status questioned if this is their idea of fun.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Arac

[Hylocereus]

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to have input, but I would like to add my bit as the vampire who ultimately removed Aracino from the round. I knew they were already having a rough time as I saw them in cloning before I decided to strike, and when I finally caught them in the hall they didn't even have any way of defending themselves.

My main issue though is that not only was I randomly vampired with the objective of going after a certain people, it was my only objective, and I wasn't asked. If I had been asked, I would have said no, because this doesn't feel like an event to me so much as it felt like bullying. Regardless, I carried out my objective, but the whole situation left a bad taste in my mouth so I can only imagine how unpleasant it was for the subject.

[Cobradude]

I too being someone who actually rolled a legit antag on this round echo the worry. I don't see what it added to the round; clearly the chaplain wasn't pleased, and for the standard antags who if like me very rarely actually roll it just had another obstacle that wasn't fun. There were agents, changelings, and vampires and it was too chaotic for any sort of RP or real action to come of it seeing as the vampire's only the the objective of killing the chaplain. I do understand the idea, lings v agents v vampires with a chaplain in the middle sounds well but I believe was poorly executed here. As a suggestion before further critique; perhaps have a faction of antags side with the chaplain so they aren't alone.

It appears highly likely the vampires were chosen; I also see this as quite unfair. Obviously I know Sam Aria pretty well and have spent a lot of time with them both in and out of the game so I was confident to approach them and receive engaging RP, however I will admit her character flaw as an antag is not sparing thought to other player's enjoyment in the heat of the moment, which happened to the chaplain here. I hope you aren't discouraged from the character or Hylo as a cool dude, everyone makes their mistakes. However I believe this is relevant to the choice in vampires, it appears the admin in question had picked those who only really wanted to see that greentext, which I'm not meaning in an insulting manner to any of the players, but I feel it leans itself to the idea this event was not particularly well thought out with quality of RP in mind.

Conclusion/wrap up, I get the idea behind the event and I honestly believe this wasn't quite the intended outcome, but I would seriously recommend trying to take this as a learning experience in any case.

I will also ask you to excuse my spelling/grammar/lack of direction of this. I have been awake for well over 24 hours and am extremely drowsy but I thought best to get all my thoughts out even if it is slightly jumbled as soon after the round as possible.  

[Arac]

I'd like to update this a bit. Spark messaged me with this: 

Spacemanspark-Today at 9:48 PM

Hey.

Aracino-Today at 9:49 PM

Such a fun objective you set.

I had a great time

In space

Spacemanspark-Today at 9:49 PM

Well, that was blunt.

Aracino-Today at 9:49 PM

So what the stun baton.

That killed ki'li the second time

waS*

Spacemanspark-Today at 9:50 PM

Indeed.

But yes, I'm going to attempt to discuss this rationally, since I was the one to send it out after a small amount of discussion.

If you are willing to calm down for a brief moment.

Aracino-Today at 9:51 PM

Your asking me to calm down?

After you sent 3 vamps after me

Spacemanspark-Today at 9:51 PM

Indeed.

Aracino-Today at 9:51 PM

Because I had my job name changed?

IF you want to talk to me

Talk on the admin complain I made.

Spacemanspark-Today at 9:52 PM

I was merely trying to shed information. I can see you're not going to want to hear it. I will leave you be, then.

Aracino-Today at 9:52 PM

If you want to give it, put it on the thread.

Spacemanspark-Today at 9:52 PM

I generally don't respond to them unless requested by the admin handling it; it tends to end up with clutter when people go back and forth.

 

From the sounds, he blames me for this and doesn't show an ounce of respect for the trouble he caused that round. This is the type of admin that I detest, no remorse for just ruining some players round because he thought it'd be funny. Holding this "information over my head" because he doesn't want to share it with everyone else. 

[Kluys]

Posting the relevant logs now.

ADMIN: Spacemanspark : Why is Kilimina running around with the job title Vampire hunter

ADMIN: Da Dman234 : I have no idea but I think we should shut that shit down quick

ADMIN: Scrubmcnoob : quick

ADMIN: Scrubmcnoob : give someone an objective to murder him

ADMIN: Scrubmcnoob : or bwoink him if he's actually hunting right now

ADMIN: Scrubmcnoob : pref the ic way

ADMIN: Spacemanspark : Sure.

ADMIN: Spacemanspark : Sending vampires after him.

[Spacemanspark setting antag status on 3 people + 1 who PM'd they didn't want it/had their preferences for it off.]

ADMIN: Da Dman234 : I think there are two now

ADMIN: Fethas : .....why?

ADMIN: Spacemanspark : It's encouraging validhunting, really, and we were just talking about sending vamps after him.

ADMIN: Spacemanspark : We've been trying to curb the whole chaplain vigilante DUES VULT memes as of late, have we not?

[some time passes}

[One of the vampires then goes on a mulebot murderbone spree while beeing watched by heroo]

ADMIN: Heroo2012 : They killed the chaplain

ADMIN: Heroo2012 : Wow, the amount of bodies

ADMIN: Heroo2012 : I observed on how they proceeded with the objective and everyone who they killed were either trying to call their hiding spot out or trying to kill them.

ADMIN: Spacemanspark: I was kind of hoping they'd actually use vampire abilities to do their task...

ADMIN: Spacemanspark : Damnit.

 

 

Relevant admin conversation between dman and aracino

ADMIN: PM: Da Dman234->Aracino/(Ki'Li'Mi'Na): The kill was legit.

ADMIN: PM: Aracino/(Ki'Li'Mi'Na)->Da Dman234: I just want to ask, was I even his objective? Since he just walked in, and kileld me. Then spaced me.

ADMIN: PM: Da Dman234->Aracino/(Ki'Li'Mi'Na): It's being dealt with

Would also like to note that darklordpyro actually stepped in to investigate things, good on him.

ADMIN: PM: DarkLordpyro->Aracino/(Ki'Li'Mi'Na): I will look into it myself, I was de-admined at the time so I'll go around asking questions

Edited July 21, 2017 by Kluys
Forgot to strip the irrelevant IC names.

[Arac]

I wish spark asked me instead of doing that. I wasn't planning on validing any vampires, I was just doing it to make the chapel look different, I thought we only had traitors and changelings so I did that.I didn't claim anyone to be a vamp, as if I had a chance due to me being dead the majority of the round.

[Kluys]

Forgot to mention I won't be handling the complaint I will just be posting the relevant logs for both admin complaints right now so other admins have an easy time handing it. I am not capable of being online reliably right now.

[Spacemanspark]

8 minutes ago, Arac said:

I thought we only had traitors and changelings so I did that.

The issue with that being it wasn't very long after the round had started that I noticed the job change.

I suppose I'll break my own rule and provide some details from my end.

I decided to send in some vampires after Scrub threw out the suggestion. It was similar to hitting the "assassinate" smite button, but with vampires, essentially.

Valid hunting chaplains have been a giant thorn in our sides for some time now, and someone running around with the job title "vampire hunter" came across as, well, exactly that. 

The people I chose were (mostly) people I expected to make the encounter interesting and with some roleplay, while still getting across the message of a chaplain vampire hunter being something we didn't want.

Sam Aria is well known for good roleplay, and honestly I was unaware of any weakness they possessed regarding antags.

Gary Potsman is, well, eccentric, but generally tends to make things fun for those involved. I was rather taken aback and disappointed when I saw the carnage that had been caused, and stepped in to tell him to stop.

The other was a player that I initially figured would be good for it, but stated they did not want it, and it was removed from them. I chose a random player to take their place, and... never really heard anything about them.

After the round ended, I did attempt to contact Aracino and explain a bit further as to what happened, as the situation did spiral out of control, unfortunately. My intent was not to be disrespectful or show disdain at all. I didn't find the end result of the situation funny or decent.

I also spoke to the vampires in question, as well.

On my end, the main issues were mostly telling the vampires exactly what I wanted them to do, as I figured the single objective would be enough at the time. Of course, this is SS13, and things don't tend to go the way you want it to unless you plan it out extremely well.

I tend to try and resolve things in an in character perspective where possible, as people tend to be more receptive to it, as opposed to an admin telling them to outright knock it off, especially to a person that had just come off of a ban. When the suggestion came up to put in someone to kill them, I figured that sounded better than anything else. I do apologize that it went so far out of control, however.

As I'm fairly exhausted and haven't had much sleep in the past few days, I probably don't make sense in some areas. Ask for elaboration and I'll be more than happy to do so.

[Arac]

Honestly. There's an outfit inside the chaplain's locker called "witch hunter" hat/garb. I don't valid as a chaplain, I just make the chapel look nice and generally cause non-lethal shenanigans for the crew. You shouldn't assume people will end up validing, maybe instead, let me hunt the vampires as per my name, and not have the vampires hunt me? That may have been more enjoyable than the mess that was caused by that, not only ending my round early, but plenty of others that were killed in Gary's rampage.

 

Edit: And may I add, literally everyone he killed was mass drivered into space.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Arac

[Da Dman234]

Not sure if I'm needed for this, but as my name has been brought up I'd like to clarify my PM's were in response to Arac questioning the guy who went on a MULE rampage, who was being dealt with by GA's. 

Quote

You shouldn't assume people will end up validing, maybe instead, let me hunt the vampires as per my name

I also hope this is some sort of sick joke.

[Arac]

A little bit. But it's of the same magnitude as several vampires being sent to kill an unassuming chaplain. I'm not saying he should have done that, but instead of immediately thinking i'll go validing, perhaps he could use it to an advantage to open up new rp opportunities, as I'm not the kind of person who goes murderboning unless i'm a role that calls for it. I can rp, and I know I can rp to make things interesting for people. So don't assume when I say "Maybe let me hunt the vampires" means that I'll run around with a powered crossbow and my holy weapon, shooting everyone who has pale skin. I don't do that.

[Hylocereus]

I would like to add a little more to the reason why this probably backfired quite hard.

 

Vampire abilities, are actually not entirely effective on a chaplain. Or at least, they were not at one point - I distinctly remember attempting to glare chaplains in the past as a vampire and having absolutely sod all happen. Perhaps if was just unluckiness in finding the one chappy vamp that's ever spawned ever, but that is something that has stuck with me since the early games of my antagging - "If you are a vampire, don't fuck with the chaplain. You're not strong against them." Whether it's true or not it seems to be a thing that a LOT of vampire players hold in the back of their mind.

It was for this reason, that when I took out Aracino, I attempted to do so swiftly and cleanly without using my powers, because not only was I uncertain they would be effective, I have a policy of late that I cause as little collateral damage as possible - and going SKREEEEEE in the middle of a hallway, starting off a massive manhunt, is gonna cause damage. I also got lucky in finding an officer's corpse and well, why would I  -not- use it? I wasn't sure I could interact with Aracino much ICly, especially since I figured having already died they'd be extremely wary and uninterested in humoring potential murderers. In addition, security was on high alert, and while I was going to give them a more dignified (or at least justified) death, there were durands in play and one was directly around the corner from me as I dragged them into maintenance. There is no situation that can 100% guarentee good roleplay, and I deemed the one at hand unsuitible, which ultimately ended in an extremely unfun death for Aracino.

Even if this does not hold out, there is another detail to note that makes the choice of vampires problematic - A vampire is harmed by being in the chapel for any length of time. A chaplain is going to hang about the chapel mostly. Therfor, any vampire that would go after Aracino would be heavily incentivized to get to full power quickly so they don't have to worry about the holy damage.

That might not sound relevant, but remember that this means unless monkey cheesing happens, by simply having extra vampires around you're heightening the risk of collateral massively, so if they were to be a targetted sort of IC "punishment" so to speak they aren't a very good one as to take out a resistant target the majority are going to be killing other people first. A good example of that is what I hear happened with Luam - I wasn't witness to any of it as I spent most of the round harassing people in maint and playing cat and mouse with a changeling, but I hear they removed several people from the round rather brutally. To those other people, it probably felt like they were being punished as much as the chaplain.

 

Does this make sense? I'm quite ill and dizzy so I have no idea. Feel free to remove this if I'm not.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Hylocereus

[TullyBBurnalot]

@Aracino 

After speaking with Spacemanspark, the following was ascertained:

- Spacemanspark did in fact act out of bounds in the antagonist creation, especially since they were not specifically directed ONLY to attack a specific someone, merely given an objective;

- Simultaneously, even if given proper directions, the correct way to handle perceived validhunting, real or not, would have been to use Admin PMs, not spawning an Antagonist like that.

Spacemanspark has been warned regarding their actions and admits to his wrongdoing; not only will this not repeat itself, but they will also henceforth prevent further incidents like these in similar situations.

If the complainant wishes to bring anything else to our attention, please do so.

[FreeStylaLT]

It has been ten days.

Complaint assumed to be Resolved due to lack of response.

If this is unintended, or if you disagree with the outcome, feel free to reply.

[Arac]

Yep. I'm all set. Thanks for looking this over.