Admin Complaint: Saul Argon

[Savinien Brassheart]

Admin Key:Saul Argon

Your Discord name (if applicable): Zangulus

Complaint: I was the Research Director, and I had gotten permission from the Head of Security and Captain both to construct Durand and Gygax mechs. And after finishing a mech for the HoS and the Warden, I was working on a durand when xenos happened and applied for permission to have my own mech with the captain and hos. Then a terror queen spawned, and rather than let an obvious threat get away while I had a giant mobile weapon near me, I decided to help defend the station only to be bwoinked.

PM from-Trial AdminSaul Argon: Hey there

PM to-Saul Argon: Oh what did I do wrong?

PM from-Trial AdminSaul Argon: Just wondering why your hunting antags in a mech, as the RD?

PM to-Saul Argon: Well I'm hunting spiders, it's not like I'm valid hunting syndies

PM from-Trial AdminSaul Argon: Your not a security officer. If you were hunting them without a mech, I would allow that. But with a mech, your not making it fair.

At this point, I remembered a bwoinking from very early on in my paradise career, where an admin said I couldn't valid hunt antags unless the captain gave me permission and I was drafted as a part of sec. I want to say it was pyro who said it, but it was so long ago I can't remember. But I asked the captain if I could help and become a part of sec's anti-terror effort. The captain agreed,

PM from-Trial AdminSaul Argon: You can respond by clicking on my name.

PM to-Saul Argon: I know, and I'm resolving the issue in game, if the captain temporarily accepts me as part of sec, which he did, then I am not breaking any rules

PM from-Trial AdminSaul Argon: I'm afraid that is not up to you.

PM from-Trial AdminSaul Argon: Cease your rampage. Now.

PM from-Trial AdminSaul Argon: You may give your mech to a security officer. But you cannot keep antag-hunting in it.

I give up, I unlock my mech, hand it over to the blueshield.

You have been formally warned by an administrator.
Further warnings will result in an autoban.

PM to-Saul Argon: why am I being warned? I did what you said, I stopped. I unlocked it, and I'm turning it over to the blueshield.

PM from-Trial AdminSaul Argon: I warned you for doing so, you did not comply. And in-fact attempted to get around me and the rules.

PM from-Trial AdminSaul Argon: Your lucky your not getting command banned.

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That is my entire transcript with him. Now, maybe rules have changed, maybe I missed something. But are terror spiders not a biohazard that all members of the station should handle? Should I have ignored the giant egg laying spider dashing right past me? I've even done this exact thing before, and I've had admins watch and even laugh when I got overwhelmed and joined the dead chat, so why was this particular incident so bad that I needed to be warned and threatened with a command ban? And how is trying to resolve the game IC a bad thing? And why, since I followed his instructions without ever being rude, or saying no, was I formally warned?

To bullet point it

1. Is it wrong for the RD to help defend against a biohazard in a mech?

2. If not, then why, if the captain and hos approve of their assistance, why can't the RD help?

3. Why is this activity ok sometimes, and punishable other times?

4. Is trying to resolve an issue IC 'going around an admin' and a bad thing?

5. Is it fair to still formally warn and threaten a player who stops what they are doing, tries to resolve it peacefully, and then does as ordered?

I would appreciate the input of other admins about this

[LittleBigKid2000]

I was the warden this round, I'm pretty sure. Please don't gut me if I'm not allowed to put in my opinion.

I agree with the points Savinien is making. Terror spiders, like blobs, are a biohazard that the whole crew needs to fight against. I'm 99% sure it says in the announcement that all personnel must contain the outbreak. The Research Director is included in 'All personnel', if I'm not mistaken. Why does them having a mech make a difference? It's something from their department, it's not like they're an assistant. And it's not like they're even that powerful, anyway. I lost one fighting a prince, but maybe I was unrobust and the prince was robust.

I destroyed a blob with a phazon I made as a roboticist. Why didn't I get bwoinked for that? I don't think a blob is any different from terror spiders. In fact, the announcement says terror spiders are just a worse biohazard.

If he turned it in as asked, why should he be punished? He was compliant. He was a good player, not a problem. He didn't know he wasn't allowed to do that because, unless there's been a change to the rules that I haven't noticed, he hasn't been told he can't do that.

Again, sorry if I'm not allowed to put in my opinion (or just restate Savinien's points in my own words while agreeing with him and add a personal experience, which might be a more accurate description of what I just did).

[TullyBBurnalot]

The situation is currently being looked into. Please hold.

[TullyBBurnalot]

After discussing the situation with the handling Administrator, the following was ascertained:

- The initial contact was required as a response to a previous Adminhelp. However, the response given, that you were trying to kill Terror Spiders, should have been sufficient, as Terror Spiders are fully covered by the Validhunting Rule as being free to kill, just like Blobs or Nuclear Operatives;

- Additionally, the handling Administrator has been informed that the tone used in the tail end of the PM Conversation was overly confrontational, and has since been directed to adjust the way they approach handling these situations.

However:

I should note that your response to an Administrator telling you to stop doing something was to go around them and attempt to "justify" your actions ICly. If you feel an Administrator's decision is incorrect, you DO NOT try and go around them ICly, but rather abide by the decision and then contact another Administrator in order to receive a clarification; as this Complaint indicates, we'll be more than happy to provide some clarification and correction. The actual warning itself was issued because you did this, rather than abiding by the Administrator's decision, so please keep this in mind for the future and do not repeat it.

If you would like to raise any further issues, please do so.

[Savinien Brassheart]

No, I believe this is a fair judgement, and I would like to apologize for trying to circumvent an admin. You are right, that was the wrong to handle it and I will accept the formal warning for that without complaint.

[TullyBBurnalot]

Filing to Resolved.