Landerlow Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 So. Yes. I know this may not be liked by many people, but honestly? I think that if this was experimented with perhaps, it would do more good. See, a lot of people greytide, and a lot of them are nice/good. But a considerable amount of them can also be ... less than nice. It is also detrimental to the station when there is almost more greytide than people with an actual job. I think that if the number of civilian slots is reduced and more people join normal jobs, the station could be a better place. Currently, the following departments could use more people in most rounds: Medical Security Engineering Atmospherics JANITORS !!! (This is actually triggering me many a round.) Thoughts? Also, if people who would normally go civilian, would abuse their job, well, that's what jobbans are for. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxil Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 Agreed. As HOP I very frequently raise janitor slots or make new janitors. Medbay is often understaffed. Raising sec slots also never hurt. It would be better if these were default. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovaniph Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 Here is the problem if(config.assistantlimit) if(job.title == "Civilian") var/count = 0 var/datum/job/officer = job_master.GetJob("Security Officer") var/datum/job/warden = job_master.GetJob("Warden") var/datum/job/hos = job_master.GetJob("Head of Security") count += (officer.current_positions + warden.current_positions + hos.current_positions) if(job.current_positions > (config.assistantratio * count)) if(count >= 5) // if theres more than 5 security on the station just let assistants join regardless, they should be able to handle the tide return 1 return 0 return This is why Greytides wipe the floor when there is 5 security members. At least I think this is correct. Basically there is no actual limit. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZN23X Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Jovaniph said: if(count >= 5) // if theres more than 5 security on the station just let assistants join regardless, they should be able to handle the tide ???? Tho I feel if you limit civ slots then you'll just have people who want to greytide taking the jobs and not doing the job just for the sake of getting in the round, jobs other people actually WANT to work. I don't think this will have the desired effect of forcing people to take jobs in understaffed depts, I think it will make those depts feel even more understaffed despite being full. Kinda like IAA Greytide...just expand that to all departments. Tho having some greytide in all departments might make things more interesting. Edited August 4, 2017 by ZN23X Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landerlow Posted August 4, 2017 Author Posted August 4, 2017 Oh my god. That's ridiculous Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoS Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 Civilian slots shouldn't be limited. There is already a very obvious issue with people not doing the jobs they signed up for and sometimes you just want to relax and hang out/chat with people without any real responsibility as a civilian. If civilian slots are more limited that just means more people will join as actual jobs and either not do them or get demoted and you'll be left shorthanded anyways. From what I've been told civilian slots scale with security but I feel it would make more sense to have civilian slots unlimited but have a select handful of jobs scale with civilian population and not the other way around. Having Security and Medical at the very least scale up with civilian population would make more sense. Maybe even having a few more janitors and engineers around would be helpful too. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovaniph Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) I think is should scale with more than just Security officer as well. Honestly, now that I think about it, Traitors should scale with officers due to the "Valid Hunting" Rule, but that would be almost impossible mechanic wise. Other than that. Yeah I think it should scale by: Service Jobs:Assistant Ratio. Edited August 4, 2017 by Jovaniph Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biabri Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) I'm of the opinion that we should boycott all real jobs for a shift and let natural selection work it all out... . Edited August 4, 2017 by Biabri 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumiluntti Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 Timelock civilian to 100h of gameplay in every department. 2 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landerlow Posted August 4, 2017 Author Posted August 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, Rumiluntti said: Timelock civilian to 100h of gameplay in every department. Yes please. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBigKid2000 Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 Make Civilian cost 100 karma. 1 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SideCat Posted August 4, 2017 Posted August 4, 2017 Yet, I think that Captain should just try to control the station and announce to greytide to get a job or they wont get those free toolboxes and gasmasks from their storages. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawneax Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 11 hours ago, FoS said: Civilian slots shouldn't be limited. There is already a very obvious issue with people not doing the jobs they signed up for and sometimes you just want to relax and hang out/chat with people without any real responsibility as a civilian. If civilian slots are more limited that just means more people will join as actual jobs and either not do them or get demoted and you'll be left shorthanded anyways. It's like when people sign up to be librarian and then disappear for the rest of the round. (They don't even bother to stock the shelves with books). I'm not saying Librarian is the most important job or anything but I think it a good example of what would happen to other departments with the civilian restriction. #TotallynotbiasbecauseIplaycivALLthetime Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) I strongly believe that assistants shouldn't be limited. Not everyone wants to play security officer, not everyone wants to play "X" job, but assistants generally give a base level experience to just kinda play and enjoy the game without taking up a job slot or having nay responsibilities. The alternative is worse; civlian slots are even more limited than they currently are, and as a result, we get more people who sign up for job X then don't perform than job because they don't really want to play as that job; they just want to kinda run around doing whatever. I know the argument is "well, then we can just job ban then". My reply to this is: you're quite literally forcing someone to play a job against their will or tell them "don't play on this server *at all*" under those conditions. Keep in mind, there's people who "main" assistant and enjoy it--not every single one is some greytiding "shitter" either; they just enjoy playing the game peripherally. If anything, I think assistant slots should be unlimited with officer slots scaling based on assistant population; that is to say, the max officers is X, but 1 more officer slot opens for every X civilians on station. You're not going to get people to magically enjoy a job if they're forced to play it, nor will it actually stop them from greytiding. The desire to have more people play security is a good one and is a noble goal, but this isn't the way to go about it, either. Edited August 5, 2017 by Fox McCloud 2 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landerlow Posted August 5, 2017 Author Posted August 5, 2017 I still would like to think of options to make people choose real jobs over the civilian slot if both options are available. Filled, working departments make the best gameplay experience, in my opinion. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovaniph Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) Well then I think the solution to the problem is to allow jobs to be somewhat autonomous. For instance, I play as an Atmos Tech. Although every round I do take my job seriously more than anyone every....fucking....round.... It doesn't stop me from going out to socialize (mute vulp socializing? wtf?), getting a drink at the bar, maintenance diving, shenanigans, etc. I pay attention to the time to make sure I check the atmos alarm/atmos roughly 15-30 minutes and respond to breaches if announced on commons. If its not too seriously, it doesn't take me long to clear the breach and be like "Welp...my job is done, I don't need to do repairs because thats not my fucking job, that's the engineers" then I walk away and going back to doing what I was doing. Cargo doesn't have that luxury because they have to constantly watch for people who place orders or need access to the autolathe. My suggestion is make the AUTOLATHE PUBLIC JUST LIKE THE ONE IN METASTATION. and the other part is Cargo gets a program on there PDA that notifies them if someone place an order or something Medbay has to man the front desk even for a small fucking injury. Allow sleepers to be public and block of Medbay from the left side or something or block the medicine fridge, cryochamber, and OR, etc... Make sleepers not require another person to fiddle with it and allow the people INSIDE the sleeper to control it. Other than that, I can see PDAs beeping autonomously (or crew monitors) when someone is seriously injured. Science...Fucking Science... I don't know how to help you. Engineer... YOU ARE SOL WITH THOSE FUCKING STATION GOALS! I FEEL SO FUCKING SORRY FOR YOU SHITS! Everytime I play CE, i swear Im like...No...no station goals *Burns paper* PS... I typed all this half asleep...I literally just woke up and hungry.... Other than that...Lets utilize PDAs more often and fuck tablets/laptops, they are useless. Edit: I don't know about other people, but there are just many things I like to do within the 2 hours you get per round. I don't like spending a whole lot of time optimizing atmos to the point where it just becomes ridiculous. I will fix breaches and turn on the turbine if the tesla/singo is not on or stop working. But, I don't want anyone stopping me from going to the library to read a book or play cards or beat up the clown. Edited August 5, 2017 by Jovaniph 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 Assistant slot should never be limited, and they are currently limited/scaleable to security officer slots. Why? Because a lot of the entry-level jobs available to new players are almost always full. Why does this matter? Because newer players join the server and ask why the job selection screen is completely blank, because the limited assistant slots are taken up preventing them from playing. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landerlow Posted August 5, 2017 Author Posted August 5, 2017 I would like to know what @Fox McCloud thinks of the things that @Jovaniph suggested. Could (some of) these things be done/made? It would be brilliant. However, for some departments, we can't make them too autonomous because well .. let's say people go to medical and use public sleepers. Basically they would have to have medical knowledge because they know what medications to take, etc. I wouldn't want to totally ruin any roleplaying or whatever. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovaniph Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) Well we can have the sleepers automagically give you the things you needs without having to push buttons yaya? Edit: or set it to be stupid proof and be like "this cures your brute damage yadadada" Edited August 5, 2017 by Jovaniph Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarsMond Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 A problem about the public sleeper for "small" injuries is that it actually could lead to more work for medbay. Guy gets an infected wound, think it's healed from the styptic, later needs to be treated for septic everything. And currently, a stationary medibot is probably better for that, applies correct chems, and alerts medbay of critically wounded patients. And yeah, there is a difference between players who want to do some other stuff, but will do their job when needed, and players who disappear from their job and do whatever roundstart. The first type can easily have one or two on standby, and call for the rest when needed, regularly cycling who watches the lobby. The second type is better off as civilian. I think one issue is that there isn't much interesting to do for the "tide", but attempting to close down the tide by blocking the job they do the least damage with isn't really the solution. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumiluntti Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 Assistants/civilians etc. should just be non-crew and not having access to station services like medbay. 2 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 6 hours ago, Jovaniph said: Well we can have the sleepers automagically give you the things you needs without having to push buttons yaya? Edit: or set it to be stupid proof and be like "this cures your brute damage yadadada" That oversimplifies things. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovaniph Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 4 hours ago, Rumiluntti said: Assistants/civilians etc. should just be non-crew and not having access to station services like medbay. Sooo...Remove maintenance access? 2 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBigKid2000 Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 Make assistants/civilians valid. 2 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landerlow Posted August 5, 2017 Author Posted August 5, 2017 Seriously though, what would be doable to make people go to normal jobs more? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/#findComment-92504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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