TyOmaha Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) I agree with Fox. Imagine you were forced to do something that you did not want to do, and there were no 'real' consequences to not doing it - you wouldn't do it or would do it very poorly. People aren't getting paid to do jobs like in real life, they're doing it because they want to. For fun. (most of the time) And from what I've seen, normal jobs do get filled up. It's the in-game performance of them that's an issue. (i.e. Lots of malpractice bay) Edited August 5, 2017 by Ty Omaha Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-92506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyass Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Why? just why? If you reduce the amount of slots for civilians then you just forcing players to pick a job and thats never good, most of the time they don't do their job and just fuck off and do something less forcing the admins to job ban them or what not, and this can keep going on too one player is just job banned from most or all jobs and yet they cant join due to no slots for civilian, I like to main civilian once in a while and do jobs that you cant pick from the start screen like test subject for the Genetics team to help them find the powers more faster and maybe get a free set of powers for helping them, or be a Courier and move stuff round from one department to another one, and many many many more unlisted jobs. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-92898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Make the slots unlimited and remove their maint access. Should reduce tide to some extent since they can't get maint loot/run in via maint access corridors with ease while making sure the slot is always available. It would also give the "Emergency Maintenance Access" thing have meaning. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-93139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyass Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) maintenance access is the only thing they had going for them, if you remove that then you will give a security a reason to stun and cuff them if they seen in maintenance tunnels due to they are trespassing in area that they does not have access to. and it make other jobs even the clown have better picking of loot in the maintenance being locked away from the greytide, oh god, just think, the clown with a lot of loot from maintenance... Edited August 15, 2017 by Holyass Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-93142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradstein Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) Yeah, removing Civilian maintenance access would be a mistake, as would capping the number of Civilian/Assistants. I think it's a matter of determining why so many people play Civilians, even when there are jobs available. If there are new jobs created (whether that be more positions available for existing roles, or brand new positions that don't currently exist) then there will be less Civilians, simply because there's more choice for people. If having such a large number of Civilians is an issue, then giving them a reason not to play a Civilian is the way to go in my opinion. Edited August 15, 2017 by Bradstein 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-93151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexpkeaton Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 I think it would be worth it to test removing maintenance access from civilians for a few rounds, just to see what would happen. It sure makes sense from the IC perspective that they are guests on a Nanotrasen space station and expected to keep to common areas. And, for blobs or other threats where freedom of movement is necessary, command can simply swipe to release access. ... or not, and possibly prevent a half-dozen welder bombs near the blob. I'm not exactly sure what the dynamic would be, but we should test it out and find out. People would certainly be clamoring to see the HoP, for jobs or simply maint access. Not sure if that's a good thing or not because of the potential volume of people seeking the HoP. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-93159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landerlow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, alexpkeaton said: I think it would be worth it to test removing maintenance access from civilians for a few rounds, just to see what would happen. It sure makes sense from the IC perspective that they are guests on a Nanotrasen space station and expected to keep to common areas. And, for blobs or other threats where freedom of movement is necessary, command can simply swipe to release access. ... or not, and possibly prevent a half-dozen welder bombs near the blob. I'm not exactly sure what the dynamic would be, but we should test it out and find out. People would certainly be clamoring to see the HoP, for jobs or simply maint access. Not sure if that's a good thing or not because of the potential volume of people seeking the HoP. It would be good. It would give the HoP more to do for longer into the shift than just the first 10 minutes or so. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-93161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdtalon Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 3 hours ago, Bradstein said: Yeah, removing Civilian maintenance access would be a mistake, as would capping the number of Civilian/Assistants. I think it's a matter of determining why so many people play Civilians, even when there are jobs available. If there are new jobs created (whether that be more positions available for existing roles, or brand new positions that don't currently exist) then there will be less Civilians, simply because there's more choice for people. If having such a large number of Civilians is an issue, then giving them a reason not to play a Civilian is the way to go in my opinion. Not everyone wants to have to do a job every round. Sometimes it's nice just to chill and not have anything to do. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-93165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradstein Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Birdtalon said: Not everyone wants to have to do a job every round. Sometimes it's nice just to chill and not have anything to do. Yeah, I get that. But I know there's still plenty of people who join late and can't join as a role they want, so they're obviously just left with Civilian. By making more positions available, it allows people who just want to chill to do just that, while giving the people who want a role (but can't get one currently) the opportunity to have a job. If the new positions aren't critical to the station then it won't matter whether they're taken or not, so simply having that choice can't be a bad thing. Edited August 15, 2017 by Bradstein Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-93168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdtalon Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, Bradstein said: Yeah, I get that. But I know there's still plenty of people who join late and can't join as a role they want, so they're obviously just left with Civilian. By making more positions available, it allows people who just want to chill to do just that, while giving the people who want a role (but can't get one currently) the opportunity to have a job. If the new positions aren't critical to the station then it won't matter whether they're taken or not, so simply having that choice can't be a bad thing. Thats all well and good but unfortunately we're restricted by our small map right now. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-93171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biabri Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Mapping isn't incredibly hard. More positions would be cool. It could be interesting have a proper little chapel, 2 more chaplain-like roles that have different purposes? Making Librarian and Reporter different jobs... There are more ideas out there, but they'd require more coding. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-93178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradstein Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Yeah, there's plenty of unused space that could be used to expand existing departments, or create new areas. If creating new roles isn't an option, at least more areas for Civilians to use that aren't in some deep dark maintenance shaft. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-93180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawneax Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) One thing to note is that some of the spawn points are IN maintenance. If you remove maint access to civvies you might run the risk of having people stuck in maint at round start. Just as an example, there have been plenty of times where I've spawned in the tiny morgue maintenance tunnel as a civilian. It would suck having to call someone over comms just to get out on a regular basis. Edited August 15, 2017 by Pawneax added words. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-93244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biabri Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) Fixable. I don't fully understand why assistants need maint... Not that CM is an amazing role model, but really only engis were allowed in on one of the last maps. Edited August 15, 2017 by Biabri Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-93247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyass Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 there many reason to remove and not to remove access to maintenance for Civilians. Reasons to remove it. 1. no Civilians in maintenance to grab any of the maintenance loot or hide in maintenance or kill someone in maintenance. Reasons to not to remove it. 1. they still have access to maintenance grabbing any of the loot they see and making it hard for any one player to get all the best loot. 2. sometimes there a good one so they do help out by reporting dead bodys in the maintenance and what not. 3. they are the first to die in maintenance letting all other know that shit is going down in maintenance. 4. sometimes they build random stuff in the maintenance rooms like the spare bar or a spear medbay. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-93251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jountax Posted November 6, 2017 Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) On 8/5/2017 at 5:01 AM, Jovaniph said: Science...Fucking Science... I don't know how to help you. As a science main, science already kinda is a screw around kind of job. Has to be, or scientists would never have time to carry out experiments, which is how I like to play it if I'm not needed on RnD or Xeno. I'll go take care of anomalies if they pop up but mostly I have a wacky idea in mind at round start that I want to see if it's possible or not, or I'll have recently learned of an obscure mechanic and spend my round figuring out how it works and then coming up with applications for it. Half the fun of science is just making cool stuff to prove you can, or just because you can. It's just such a shame hardly anyone in other departments is willing to talk to the scientist excitedly waving a gadget in their face trying to give it to them and tell them what it does. In my experience anyway. Anyway, back on topic, I'm a bit curious why civilians have maintenance access too. Some pages on the wiki even allude to them not having it, such as referring to the barber as "Basically a civilian with maint access." Edited November 6, 2017 by Jountax Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-99065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ID404NotFound Posted November 20, 2017 Posted November 20, 2017 I hate when people choose random, don't like what they get, or didn't remember to switch it off, then march to the HoP desk, slap their ID on the table and just utter "civillian" No roleplay, no IC reason, just "make me a civ" Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-99888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted November 20, 2017 Posted November 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, ID404NotFound said: I hate when people choose random, don't like what they get, or didn't remember to switch it off, then march to the HoP desk, slap their ID on the table and just utter "civillian" No roleplay, no IC reason, just "make me a civ" That's a helluva lot better thing for them to do than stick with tehir job and be completely useless. At least they're actively declaring "I don't want to do anything and am opting out of the other jobs" than "I'm going to take up a job slot and do nothing with it" 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-99889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streaky Haddock Posted November 20, 2017 Posted November 20, 2017 GMT+0 Morning-Noon I get a regularly ahelped about being unable to join from brand new players because all the open slots of karma/time-locked and all the civ slots are locked down. Civ is also the job slot I recommend mid-round to newbies who just want to learn how the communit and mechanics work without pissing people off. And security needs something to do on slow rounds, anyway. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-99891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buford Posted December 15, 2017 Posted December 15, 2017 This topic is still valid right? It was not invalidated or validated as something that would be implemented in the game. Well ok, best thing to do in this circumstance is to remove civilian completely. Remove the limited availability of the clown job. Make clown the new citizen job with all it's privileges and items included. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/11146-reduce-the-amount-of-civilian-slots/page/2/#findComment-101014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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