Nukes Op Declaring War = Give all access?

[Jovaniph]

I find this to be very problematic during nukie rounds. I think it should not be allowed. People who have the jobs can't do them because those who get the access from the hopline messes with their progress and creates an annoyance and becomes chaotic. Thoughts?

[Valkyrie]

Last time crew members didn't get all access, they nearly rioted until some rando scientist with a laptop started giving it out.

They both have upsides and downsides, and I think it should be up to command to make the decision when war is declared.

[Twinmold]

Reminds me of a recent round (within the last week) I was AI, saw a civilian with full access, very first thing that civilian did was go into the Captain's office, taking his space suit and gear. This isn't inclusive of all the other stuff people take across the station they really shouldn't be touching because they are taking it away from other people who do have the access already (raiding surgery, armory, engineering, science), or as Jovaniph noted, making some areas very chaotic and full of people (such as Robotics and Research and Development).

[Vargh]

We need a straight forward law who say no to all all access in nuke wars it just doesn't work, it makes the place a mess and the abuse is insane, yesterday I joined 5 minutes late into a nukies round as security and the armory was already raided and the medical crew had more weapons and gear than me, 2 medical guys where walking around in security hardsuit, it's fucking stupid. And we also need more active mentor/admin help to the nukies about is objective and questions to prevent them for dying for oxyloss in space, no jetpack or buying a macrobomb to kill his entire team 

[Someonewithapen]

War were declared? Set the AI to Bolt Maintenance access and Emergency Access Cargo and Medbay. Done. No more access is needed.

[Capsandi]

2 hours ago, Valkyrie said:

Last time crew members didn't get all access, they nearly rioted until some rando scientist with a laptop started giving it out...

did the security team do anything? i know you need to prep for war but sec only needs their death guns and armor. going to war doesnt mean you can let the station dissolve into a ton of survivalist savages on a hunk of metal. whenever someone is arrested during war prep, they yell I NEED TO GET READY! SECURITY IS PREVENTING ME FROM FIGHTING! but i guess that IS the was equilivent of SHIT SEC!

But i think it should be allowed, if anyone suffers from this it is command, they get all their toys used by people who dont have to follow SOP that says the chain of command can only be used on a changling wearing a maid uniform named "Billy Mays". This blocks of strategies! before this became real popular, a nuke would olny blow the AI core to see one of two things

1. The AI gone
2. The AI accompanied by a borgo

The less the restrictions, the more possibilities, I say!

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by Capsandi

[Shadeykins]

Awarding all access can also be incredibly useful in combating operatives as it allows the crew to no longer be impeded in ways which they already were. Not being able to open a door on nukies is literally the difference between life and death for crew members, and more often than not the people you need to handle something (MD's, Security, Science, Cargo, etc) are either too busy with other things or are already dead.

It's a double-edged blade. If people are using all access to steal actual important things (war-ops or not) such as the hand-teleporter, NAD, reactive teleport armour, ETC, ahelp it. All-access does not mean people are exempt from the server rules.

[Kyet]

I don't see a problem with awarding all access.

IC-wise, nuclear operatives have declared their intention to destroy the station and kill everyone on it.

You know they will be arriving shortly, armed to the teeth.

It is only natural for SOP and standard behavior to go out the window in such a situation - everyone is in it together, fighting for their lives, whether they want to or not.

Giving out all-access still means people with certain jobs can take the job gear first, if they want it.

It just means that if they don't take it, someone else can, since it is such an emergency.

 

[Jovaniph]

Those are all good points, but I would like to point out a life lesson I learn..."Work with what you got". I believe there needs to be a stop to allowing people to take advantage of these all access and use their brain to figure how they can contribute to the fight instead of trying to what...powergame?

[Shadeykins]

War-ops is built around the express idea of the crew readying itself in advance and arming itself to the teeth. It's why they get all the extra TC. I'm not really sure powergaming arguments are legitimate when it comes to this gamemode - it would be like accusing someone of powergaming during ragin' mages or blob.

[Mitchs98]

Disallowing all access during a warops is generally a very bad idea unless the warops are exceptionally unskilled at their jobs. Adding a rule to disallow it is dumb and counter-intuitive, as is banning people for 'stealing important items'. Not saying to let people do every possible thing they could ever want to do, but banning people for raiding things to use for combat or adding a strict OOC rule for no access is stupid and really uncalled for.

Even more-so to call people out on powergaming during warops.

[Shadeykins]

51 minutes ago, Mitchs98 said:

Disallowing all access during a warops is generally a very bad idea unless the warops are exceptionally unskilled at their jobs. Adding a rule to disallow it is dumb and counter-intuitive, as is banning people for 'stealing important items'. Not saying to let people do every possible thing they could ever want to do, but banning people for raiding things to use for combat or adding a strict OOC rule for no access is stupid and really uncalled for.

Even more-so to call people out on powergaming during warops.

The rules on self-antagging don't go out the window wholesale simply because the roundtype changed.

All-access is a useful tool. It does not however: allow you to run into the HoS's office to steal their X-01 Laser Gun and all their equipment, the CE's office to steal their advanced hardsuit and magboots, or the Captain's office to steal the hand-teleporter/antique laser pistol

Arm yourself? Sure. Rob the HoS? Not so much.

As stated, if you see people raiding sensitive equipment for no good reason then ahelp it.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Shadeykins

[Streaky Haddock]

no-one's going to respect an SOP rule that has no obvious useful function and is perceived to hamstring defenses.

It doesn't matter how much of a difference all-access actually makes. The response will be 'Fuck SOP, I'm giving all access, I don't want to get nuked'.

[Kyet]

9 hours ago, Streaky Haddock said:

no-one's going to respect an SOP rule that has no obvious useful function and is perceived to hamstring defenses.

It doesn't matter how much of a difference all-access actually makes. The response will be 'Fuck SOP, I'm giving all access, I don't want to get nuked'.

If you want to stop people handing out all-access during war ops, the simple way to do it is to add a 20 TC item that lets a traitor spoof a war ops announcement.

Traitors could use it to get legit all-access and then complete their steal objectives. Crew's only counter would be.... not giving out all access indiscriminately during war ops.

 

Adding a server rule to prohibit this behavior is a bad idea. Server rules shouldn't force people to behave in blatently unrealistic ways.

When a nuclear team has publicly broadcast their intention to nuke you and kill everyone, doing whatever you need to do to survive is the realistic response. Worrying about SOP isn't. SOP exists to serve NT's interests. It is not in NT's interests for their station to be blown up.

[Streaky Haddock]

That's... actually a good idea.

[EvadableMoxie]

Another idea might be to have it so when Nukies declare war, a couple of crewmembers with traitor turned on become activated as traitors.  This gives further incentive to nukies to war dec, and prevents the crew from handing out all access because now not everyone is automatically trustworthy. 

[Mitchs98]

19 minutes ago, EvadableMoxie said:

Another idea might be to have it so when Nukies declare war, a couple of crewmembers with traitor turned on become activated as traitors.  This gives further incentive to nukies to war dec, and prevents the crew from handing out all access because now not everyone is automatically trustworthy. 

Nukies don't need more power than they already have. A Good nuke team can utterly destroy everyone, even with all access and weaponry.

[EvadableMoxie]

Nukies who just rush the bridge and get in and out fast are the ones who win.  

War-deccing and letting the crew secure your disk and then having to fight through 80+ people usually ends in failure.  If anything, War-dec needs to be stronger.  As it stands nukies do it because it's more fun, not because it increases their chances of winning. 

[Kyet]

4 hours ago, EvadableMoxie said:

Nukies who just rush the bridge and get in and out fast are the ones who win.  

War-deccing and letting the crew secure your disk and then having to fight through 80+ people usually ends in failure.  If anything, War-dec needs to be stronger.  As it stands nukies do it because it's more fun, not because it increases their chances of winning. 

All of this is true.

Admin-wise, I have a standard policy of never giving any ERT, gamma alert, etc when nukies declare war, because in my experience, war ops almost always lose even without CC helping the crew. If CC helps the crew, war ops have no chance.

The thing that often does war nukies in, though, isn't actually all-access. It is cargo ordering shotguns and handing them out to everyone. Shotguns are extremely robust, especially given that nukies' eshields reflect laser shots, so bullet weapons are your best option. Cargo is the best source if you need a high volume of bullet weapons.

Nukies don't declare war because they think it will help them. They do it for fun, and extra TC.

[Holyass]

Well I think that there need to be a new shortcut for the Hop in the ID computer, if only nuke op declare war then the hop can use the new shortcut to give the crew nearly all access but not all of it, like to armory or the captain's room or any of the head office, just the access they will need to move around more better.

[scrubmcnoob]

Let's try not to restrict game play anymore than we need to.

Let the command decide if they want to give all access or not. It's a double edge sword as others have said.

[Holyass]

Just now, scrubmcnoob said:

Let's try not to restrict game play anymore than we need to.

Let the command decide if they want to give all access or not. It's a double edge sword as others have said.

i'm not trying to restrict the game.

 

I'm trying to help it by saying that In the ID computer when declare war for the hop or captain to give, for it to have click list and pick "Job" that have all have all the access beside the head's office or armory, so that will stop people from looting the items that they don't need and only keep the eyes on the prize and that will be killing the nuke op.  

It will speed up the line and lets Ai or anyone wearing the sec eyewear that they are not just the fake captains running round.

 

[Jovaniph]

That's smart

[TwoCam]

The one change I would make is making a war declaration automatically declare martial law so that if, for example, a janitor wants to go around mass-slipping people, or someone wants to go around stealing things, security can simply gun them down on the spot and keep on moving.

We already have a precedent for security getting pretty hardcore during Delta and Gamma alerts.

This might need to be coordinated via ahelps for each on the spot execution, but there's no possible IC excuse for the ridiculous graytiding that some people seem to get up to during a war ops round.

[SomeGuy9283]

Pssh, please, Just make it Martial Law all the time, fix greytiding permanently.