Kyet

[imsxz]

Admin Key: kyet

Your Discord name (if applicable): imsxz

Complaint: The general idea of this complaint will be the administrative dishonesty and stretching of the truth from kyet.

In a recent ban placed on my, kyet listed in the ban reason that I killed "most of security, command, an ERT, and generally anyone else who got in their way". Unless I'm having a horrible brain fart, I can't remember which, if any command members I killed, let alone MOST of them. Furthermore, kyet added that I killed "anyone else who got in their way", as if there was lots of collateral damage. The only two non security I killed were my masters target, and a validhunter. The only security member I killed who wasn't actively shooting at me was an ERT member while they were printing themselves guns in RND.

Additionally, in deadchat before I was about to log off, I asked if there were any concerns regarding that shift, where I was told that there weren't by an online admin. I was banned by kyet shortly after I logged off.

In short, kyet waited after I had left the server unable to defend myself from the ban, and went on to lie and stretch the truth in the reason. That is why I have made this complaint.

If you'd like to discuss the mindslave incident here instead of the normal ban appeal as well, I'd be fine with that @tzo.

[Kyet]

Briefly:

• Your ban was based on the fact you appeared to be willingly getting yourself mindslaved, becoming an antag and acting as one despite knowing you were not allowed to be an antag because of your antag ban. In short, it looked like the two of you were working together deliberately to try to evade your antag ban. The stuff about who you killed wasn't relevant and should not have been there. The issue was you getting around the antagban in the first place, not who you killed. You've played for long enough, you should know that just because something is technically possible (mindslaves work on you despite antagban) that doesn't mean the rules allow you to do it.
• The timing of the ban was based on discussions in staff chat. Not whether you were logged on at the time. I actually spent a fair bit of time in staff chat discussing this case with other admins before placing the ban - and as such I wasn't really watching the game at the time and I don't think I had even noticed you'd logged off until I went to place the ban.
• More generally, the idea that I waited until after you'd logged off so I could ban you without you being able to defend yourself is silly. I knew you'd make a ban appeal after this, and I knew you'd have a go defending yourself, regardless.
• Also, as I was mostly watching the staff chat in Discord, I may not have noticed any other staff member telling you that it was OK in deadchat. Even if they had said this, though, the fact you did it without getting permission *in advance* is bad, and one admin saying that in deadchat wouldn't override the staff consensus upon which this ban is based.

[Da Dman234]

I was the admin who bwoinked Keluandrie, and it was indeed to find out what Imsxz's orders were. In an attempt to explain what exactly happened, I'll give a quick walkthrough.

Dchat had brought up that Imsxz had rolled antag, being curious as to how this happened I asked Kyet if he had been unbanned, to which the response was no. Two dark priests were dispatched (not by myself, nor were any admins controlling them) and I bwoinked Keluandie in order to ascertain what exactly Imsxz had been ordered to do. With the Dark Priests that were dispatched having wrapped up the situation, I believed the everything to be dealt with. I would like to say that I never directly told you that you weren't going to be banned, but did suggest that it were fine for you to get off. I myself was not planning on banning you, nor did I see the conversation happening on staff chat as it was late and I was intending to leave soon. Quite honestly though it's probably best this conversation happen on the forums, as I feel your conversation with Kyet would have been very short regardless. Also, you did leave quite the trail of bodies in your wake.

 

Regardless, in an effort to keep this short and orderly that'll be my contribution to this complaint.

[necaladun]

Due to this being related to the ban and appeal, and your willingness to discuss both here, i'll handle both together.

It appears that Kyet was mistaken and that the extent of the killing wasn't quite as high, being mixed up with Kelunadrie and other traitors there. That is fairly irretlevant to the ban that was placed, but the ban reason will be edited to reflect that.

The ban was not placed after you had logged off to avoid you being able to defend yourself - something you're able to do now. It was placed after you logged off because it was discussed with other staff members, and with some searching of the logs, which takes time. Admins reserve the right to discuss such things.

The answers to Keluandrie from the admin at the time (Ansari) were entirely in relation to the question about whether it will work. His response "I'm not sure" was because he didn't know how the code related to antag bans and mindslaves work. He was also unaware that this would be a willing mindslave. Admins aren't following every chat log, pda log, nor are they expected to know every single jobban and the like off the top of their head.

It is expected that people do not attempt to become an antag or act like one if they are not one, hence the term "self-antagging."

Allowing yourself to be thralled, converted, or have your mind enslaved to the will of another (something which I can't imagine anyone ever willingly allowing ICly) for purely OOC reasons is self-antagging. In your case, doing it because "I knew it would be fun" is purely a meta reason to do this. This is meant to be an RP game. You are meant to RP a character, not look for excuses to have fun oocly by killing people. This is part of the reason the antag ban was placed in the first place - the repeated problems with you playing with the goal of killing as many people as possible.

As for whether a "mindslave" implant would be "unbeneficial to his present mental state". The answer should be yes. I don't know how the idea of an implant that literally enslaves you to the will of another could be considered "beneficial" to a mental state. I'm not sure how that is meant to mean "will this fuck with you because you're antag banned.".

This is a pretty disgusting matter to me of OOC and IC boundaries being crossed, and makes me very curious as to what information was being passed on out of game about this. While I have no clear proof there is meta here, it makes me highly, highly suspicious.

It is especially expected that people who are antag banned, and know they are, do not attempt to bypass this ban. It seems very clear that accepting the mindslave was a way to bypass the clear intent of the antag ban. When antag banned, you should not be acting like an antag. "Only" killing two non-sec members, sec members shooting at you, and an ERT member printing off guns are absolutely antagonistic actions.

This should be frankly, bloody obvious.

Blaming this on it not being patched out of the code, or the admins "approving" of it (something they never did), shows a clear inability to take responsibility or blame for your actions.

You have been repeatedly warned about your excessive antagging slaughters and other borderline behaviour (including having obviously meta names like "traitor" - of which "Not a vampire" would also count).

Your attempt to find a loophole around this to allow you to continue to play in a kill-happy manner has failed, because the rules and admins are not code. We are human beings who follow a spirit and intent of the server, which while you are masterful at exploiting (much like code), completely fail to grasp the actual human side of. This kind of mentality is not welcome here. As per rule 0: "Practice common sense while consulting these rules. The general idea counts, not the exact wording. The rules are guidelines for the server and should be interpreted to suit the situation at hand, not manipulated to suit your needs.".

It should be bloody obvious that you completely violated the spirit of the rules here, and apart from the mix-up with exactly how many people you went on to kill, there is absolutely no wrongdoing on Tzo's account. This shows a complete lack of common sense.

This complaint and your appeal show an utter lack of understanding or willingness to play by the spirit of the rules here, despite numerous warnings, bans, -34- notes on your account, and common sense.

 

The complaint is without merit except for the one minor problem with the ban reason stated. Your appeal is also denied for the reasons stated above.

[imsxz]

**Important** I started writing this before the last 3 posts, just worked on it on and off so some of the stuff said might have already been addressed

 

@tzo the main idea of this complaint was the lying in the ban reason, not so much the mindslave incident, which you still haven't touched in your response here or the ban appeal. The other reason was that you banned me without any attempt to contact me, even when I offered to talk if there were any concerns beforehand, I know for a fact you've contacted me on discord other times and there was nothing stopping you from doing it this time,  I was even online on discord at the time of the ban.

The mindslave discussion I intended to keep on the ban appeal, but I suppose we can discuss it here as well seeing how eager you are to focus on that, instead of what I listed at the beginning of the as the general reason for making it, being the dishonesty in my ban reason.

On to the mindslave mishap, I suppose. While you're right in that I should have ahelped beforehand, if it were something that was supposed to not be allowed, I feel it would've been patched long ago. It's one of the most obvious (I'm not saying this to self incriminate myself, it's just the first thing that comes to mind) "antag-makers" right under convert antags, and I don't see how it would have gone unnoticed for so long had it been unintentional. Only once I do it, does it become something that needs fixing, it appears, because surely there have been other cases where an antagbanned player was mindslaved.

As for the "unbeneficial to your mental state" discussion, I took it as "will you get kicked out of your body", and that's what I was responding to. As for my IC reasoning to accepting it, I rolled collaborator, which said something about a strange note and an opportunity to overthrow Nanotrasen. I won't go too far into that though because I know it's not really the topic of discussion.

I guess I can't really defend myself if a head of staff has made up their mind, so I'll be off then. I just wanna say that while I did, according to you, break the spirit of the rules, intentions should also play a part. I was never planning to find a loophole for my "kill happy" playstyle, I didn't plan on killing anyone before I got my orders. If I was THAT bent on getting around my antag ban, I'd do easier stuff like wild wests wish granter and such (which I've never chosen the become traitor option since my antag ban), and wouldn't have reported that swarmers don't check for antag bans either (once I learned that it unintentional for antag banned players to play as them, I reported it on github). It's clear to me that the staff doesn't want me here, so I guess I'll stop trying.

• I didn't plan on being such a high impact, "kill happy" player that shift
• I had IC reasoning that I've used before WITHOUT ISSUE for accepting the mindslave implant
• There is no doubt in my mind that mindslaves for antag banned players were OKAY in the admins eyes before I did it
• Thanks for calling me masterful at exploiting
• At least my last shift was a hell of a lot of fun

Edited October 11, 2017 by imsxz