IC direction of Paradise

[thebeoni]

At the moment when we look at Paradise ICly it would be a research station. But codewise we did not really add anything about research except for the strange object thingy which is used for RnD anyway. Only IC goal on station at the moment is either free for all/build DNA vault, Bluespace Artilery etc...

In past Zomg wanted to implement Ambassadors which when he suddenly left for Deep Station project was left unfinished and essentialy it was removed. I would like to propose iteration of this but instead of Ambassador per race it would be two Ambassadors having their own "traitor" objectives which they would have to fullfil which would essentialy opose each other.

Though i am not entirely sure how this would flesh out so i am here for your ideas.

[necaladun]

You've been banned for the last 5 months - how do you look at paradise at the moment ICly?

[necaladun]

Oh, there we go. Thanks.

[DrunkDwarf]

I've never seen anyone actually use the strange objects when I've been in science, most people seem to just churn out max tech levels by going through the same series of items that everyone does by rote. When you don't raise the tech levels to max within the first 10 minutes, someone (sometimes not even in the science department) comes along and shouts at you and takes over, because all that seems to matter is power-gaming max tech every round by the most efficient route possible.

If I go and mess with stuff in the E.X.P.E.R.I.MENTOR, none of it really contributes to tech levels, because someone else will have gone and maxed them in the small amount of time it takes to do so.

Also, I think I've seen a Scientist send back Tech disks with research maybe once ever since I've been playing here, and i started out playing Cargo a lot.

So no, I don't think the station can really be thought of a research station IC, because little research ever seems to happen, just going through the motions so that all the most powerful gear is available to take on the antags.

Most of the current station goals become essentially an extra burden for the engineering department to tackle in between repairing shit when the bombs start going off, and more often than not they just don't get built, because engineering has too much to repair already. There definitely needs to be more alternatives that take less time for engineering to set up, but then take more time for a mix of the other departments to really complete, more along the lines of the DNA vault, just quicker to set up initially.

Edited October 27, 2017 by DrunkDwarf

[Jovaniph]

I agree with @DrunkDwarf. Research is more or less a memory game to try to max reseach in the shortest period of time.

I suggested to remove station goals on this post here: https://nanotrasen.se/forum/topic/11397-remove-station-goals/ . It nothing more than a burden to the engineers and I believe that is why I stopped playing as one because I hate when someone makes a threat to fire me and I don't want to get risk getting jobban for something, that is in my opinion, stupid.

Other than that, yeah. When I play, it doesn't feel like a science station. If it was, then we would of had more scientist than other jobs and the science department would of been bigger and have more stuff to do. The problem is that the argument of balance comes into play and I think it's a pretty weak argument given the fact that an assistant can take over your job behind your back. Such examples would be, a construction of a new medbay somewhere in auxiliary storage or someone putting a protolathe and other research components in the middle of the bar, etc. Its pretty LRP and it breaks the direction of what Paradise should be, MRP.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Jovaniph
more grammar stuff

[Doukan]

Way back when it was the NCS Cyberiad for a while, a commerce station. I think that got dropped when ambassadors/customs got cut. less than half the station is actually relevant to the only thing NT cares about anyway, muh plasma, everything else is just support.

There's been suggestions about decentralizing departments before (stuff like splitting sec into checkpoints/reducing the size of engineering into area SMES's instead of one big engine) but they never go anywhere, a bigger map might help though.

[Jovaniph]

You mean like a station where Department Heads has more control of their department than the Captain? That's honestly how it should be really. The Captain shouldn't be overstepping any department head on departmental decisions.

For Example: If I play Research Director, I should have the final say about what goes around in my Department. The Captain still has power making big decision, but those decision should only reflect the bigger picture. Not micromanagement.

It's too bad that the Captain tends to do whatever they want and if you go to ahelp it, the response you would get back is "Its an IC issue". The biggest and most obvious offense is when the Captain thinks he's HoS+

Edited October 29, 2017 by Jovaniph

[SkeletalElite]

38 minutes ago, Jovaniph said:

You mean like a station where Department Heads has more control of their department than the Captain? That's honestly how it should be really. The Captain shouldn't be overstepping any department head on departmental decisions.

For Example: If I play Research Director, I should have the final say about what goes around in my Department. The Captain still has power making big decision, but those decision should only reflect the bigger picture. Not micromanagement.

It's too bad that the Captain tends to do whatever they want and if you go to ahelp it, the response you would get back is "Its an IC issue". The biggest and most obvious offense is when the Captain thinks he's HoS+

When the captain does this it triggers me so hard. I was the HoS once and there was a vampire problem (a really bad one, vamps in sec as well because of admin event) and the captain is trying to force me to not holy water test and to take people all the way to the chapel instead, (which would allow them to easily be saved) and I was so mad at this captain. I eventually decided to Ahelp and cryo because captain was being a shit head and I wasn't dealing with it then sec fell apart because a vampire became acting HoS.

[necaladun]

46 minutes ago, Jovaniph said:

It's too bad that the Captain tends to do whatever they want and if you go to ahelp it, the response you would get back is "Its an IC issue"

 

The amount of jobbans on captains says otherwise.

[MarcelinePye]

@Jovaniph I assure you that placing an engineering jobban for not completing a station project would be... highly irregular and warrenting an admin complaint. To put it politely.

[Jovaniph]

48 minutes ago, MarcellusPye said:

@Jovaniph I assure you that placing an engineering jobban for not completing a station project would be... highly irregular and warrenting an admin complaint. To put it politely.

I'm only saying that, because it's highly possible given the direction the station goals has taken. Even when playing an Atmospheric Technician, I had CEs threaten to fire me because I refused to help build it. As long as it continues to be the duties of the Engineer to complete Engineer Station Goals, I feel like jobbans would be something that is likely going to be considered in the future unless the station goals are fixed.

[necaladun]

54 minutes ago, Jovaniph said:

I feel like jobbans would be something that is likely going to be considered in the future unless the station goals are fixed.

They are not, I can assure you.

[Shadeykins]

2 hours ago, Jovaniph said:

I'm only saying that, because it's highly possible given the direction the station goals has taken. Even when playing an Atmospheric Technician, I had CEs threaten to fire me because I refused to help build it. As long as it continues to be the duties of the Engineer to complete Engineer Station Goals, I feel like jobbans would be something that is likely going to be considered in the future unless the station goals are fixed.

Ignoring and refusing to comply with the direct orders of your departmental head when they're completely reasonable merits firing you.

That doesn't mean it translates to a job ban.

[Jovaniph]

Aright, I got the understanding that their won't be any jobbans. Now the only concern is just Station Goals in general which i'll leave keep the discussion here https://nanotrasen.se/forum/topic/11397-remove-station-goals/.

There is still the concern of the IC direction. Is the NSS Cyberiad really and feel like Science Station? The second question is, why do I feel like even though we claim to be MRP, we generally lean towards LRP?

To explain the second question a bit more. Based on personal accounts, I see just about more than half of every round I join are nothing more than a meme. I'm only viewing this during present time and I understand we are basically coming into the Holiday Seasons just about. I also understand that we are trying to make every round fun, but I believe that draws the LRP crowd in which some intend to stay and I'm hearing more and more claims that they don't come for the RP in general (mostly on discord). Once that happens you get a conflict of interest and it kinda messes with the balance with what we have, action and roleplay. Not "action or roleplay, it doesn't matter to us".

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Jovaniph
grammarly. Please donate to the cause for Jovan's shitty grammar and spelling.

[DrunkDwarf]

11 hours ago, Jovaniph said:

Aright, I got the understanding that their won't be any jobbans. Now the only concern is just Station Goals in general which i'll leave keep the discussion here https://nanotrasen.se/forum/topic/11397-remove-station-goals/.

There is still the concern of the IC direction. Is the NSS Cyberiad really and feel like Science Station? The second question is, why do I feel like even though we claim to be MRP, we generally lean towards LRP?

To explain the second question a bit more. Based on personal accounts, I see just about more than half of every round I join are nothing more than a meme. I'm only viewing this during present time and I understand we are basically coming into the Holiday Seasons just about. I also understand that we are trying to make every round fun, but I believe that draws the LRP crowd in which some intend to stay and I'm hearing more and more claims that they don't come for the RP in general (mostly on discord). Once that happens you get a conflict of interest and it kinda messes with the balance with what we have, action and roleplay. Not "action or roleplay, it doesn't matter to us".

 

The server is LRP because the playerbase is LRP. As long as you aren't a dick and follow the rules, there is no actual requirement to RP much to play on Paradise, it's not enforced/encouraged by the admins nor the game mechanics.

Just look at the rules, Rule 2 is the only rule that really covers Roleplaying, and could pretty much be summed up as "no metagaming, IC in OOC, or silly names" as it doesn't enforce anything beyond those basic low RP concepts, and specifically says it doesn't enforce higher RP stuff such as expected level of knowledge for your role, Clone memory disorder, etc.

At the end of the day, the players that play on the server decide what kind of server it is, enforcing more RP mechanics through rules/admins/code would mean upsetting and potentially losing a lot of the current players.

As much as I love RP, I don't see being a LRP server as a bad thing, it's obviously what the players want, what the staff are happy with, and provides a fun experience for the many people that play here already.

I think Paradise should just embrace being LRP and just remove any references to MRP, because that's clearly inaccurate at this point.

Edited October 30, 2017 by DrunkDwarf
drink less, proofread more

[Jovaniph]

Paradise should continue to keep up with the MRP standards.

To say that Paradise would lose lots of their current players is questionable and not totally true. Paradise took in the wrong type of crowd and I have to sit next to them regardless of how uncomfortable it is.. Hell, the server is just too big as it stands right now to the point that we are what? Semi-listed?

If the administration has the backbone to enforce and encourage MRP, I would be right behind them. I join this server thinking and wanting MRP. I'm not about to bend over backwards for the wrong type of community.

[necaladun]

LRP, MRP, HRP, are all pretty nebulous terms.

For me, and the original intention was, was to be higher RP than things like Hippy, and lower than Bay. That holds true to me for sure (even if some people act a bit more hippy like, and some people more bay like).

 

[SP00K_E]

On 10/30/2017 at 4:50 PM, necaladun said:

LRP, MRP, HRP, are all pretty nebulous terms.

For me, and the original intention was, was to be higher RP than things like Hippy, and lower than Bay. That holds true to me for sure (even if some people act a bit more hippy like, and some people more bay like).

 

 

This is spot on. Prefixed-RP is as nebulous as RP itself. To some, RP involves character development and a commitment to playing a character as a personality. To others it's simply the act of putting on a role. Even though I'd sometimes call myself a 'Heavy RPer' because I game a lot from the perspective of a long time PnP gamer; I log in here instead of other stations because it's not as overbearing as servers advertised as heavy RP tend to be, but not as chaotic and character breaking as places like /tg/ and Hippy.

There isn't really such a thing as medium RP, there is only enforcement and lack of enforcement in regards to actions being in-character.

[necaladun]

2 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

Even though I'd sometimes call myself a 'Heavy RPer' because I game a lot from the perspective of a long time PnP gamer

Very much the same myself, I personally just don't feel it's as possible to get that across in a multiplayer platform with ~100 people, which is a shame. Otoh, I've seen some pretty...LRP stuff in PnP too!

2 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

I log in here instead of other stations because it's not as overbearing as servers advertised as heavy RP tend to be, but not as chaotic and character breaking as places like /tg/ and Hippy.

That's great to hear, as that's exactly what we're aiming for! The fact still remains though that some rounds/characters/code/etc will be higher, and some lower, so we're left with a compromise of never being -quite- what everyone likes.

2 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

there is only enforcement and lack of enforcement in regards to actions being in-character.

The other way I've thought of it is enforce LRP standards, and encourage HRP standards. 

What those exactly are and mean though I've been discussing with people for almost 5 years now with no end in sight.