Sec: Perma Issues

[Vajra]

So having played sec for quite some time now, both as warden and as an officer. Id have to say perma is one of the weakest, most shoddily built areas of the station. It's a nightmare to deal with as sec, and either very easy, or very boring for prisoners to deal with. 

1. Windows - They're gonna be broken, and everyone will break them. From the kung-fu space vox traitor clown, to the greytiding human thats doing it for laughs. I can understand giving prisoners a possible escape but these things are way WAY to easy to break. Electrified or otherwise the prisoners just throw shit at em till they bust. I cant even understand the point of them RP wise, what are the prisoners gonna look at? The empty black void of space!? The lax way most perma prisoners do it is what really gets to me to, ill check cams after locking a fella up and almost immediately afterwards he'll bust the cameras and start on the windows. These things either need to be stronger or just full on metal. 
2. Solitary Confinement - So a prisoner trys to break a window? No big deal right? Just throw em into solitary confinement. Ok but now we have two vox prisoners and a human. There's only ONE solitary confinement area, and at most you can throw another bed in there and hope the prisoners dont eat each other out of claustrophobic panic. This thing either needs to be bigger, or there needs to be more of em. 
3. APC for IPC's - This is the one that irks me the most. Perma an IPC? Well they're gonna starve if you dont come to feed em. And dont even try to bring em to the perma APC thats right outside the cells, they sure do love fucking the perma power over when they do that. IPC's need some way to feed themselves IN perma, without being given the ability to just blast open the doors through sheer hunger or robo fuckery. 
4. Chemical Implants - These things arent broken so much as they are typically useless. If the warden even bothers putting a chemical in them, they either wont know what to use or are just ineffective depending on the prisoners species. Id suggest making them some sort of implanted shocker/stunner that can be activated from the prisoner computer or a device that comes with them. Basically shock collars. Or at the very least have them come pre-filled with some kind of chemical that can at least down an organic for a small while. 

 

Once again, I know perma is meant to give prisoners some chance of escape, but when it gets to point in a round where shits hit the fan, you can barely focus on whats going on all at once, and the prisoners can either just destroy or die from lack of food in the hellhouse that is perma, it almost becomes easier to just permanently lock them in the standard cells in the sec lobby area. Hell im not even sure if thats against the SOP, should I just keep perma folk in the front cells so they can actually be interacted with more? 

 

 

[TyOmaha]

As for solitary, each perma cell has blast doors which can be closed; isolating the cell from the rest of perma.

[Vajra]

3 minutes ago, Ty Omaha said:

As for solitary, each perma cell has blast doors which can be closed; isolating the cell from the rest of perma.

Also a good option, doesn't it lock all the cells down though? Or just one? 

[Tayswift]

I think perma is fine the way it is. Yes, it's easy to escape, but you escape with pretty much nothing, an orange jumpsuit with sensors you can't turn off, and a tracking implant inside you if sec was competent. Also, you usually need outside help unless you're a species that can survive the vacuum of space, in which case, security should've locked you in somewhere more secure.

[TyOmaha]

Each individual cell has it's own lockdown

[Streaky Haddock]

I. HAAAAAAAAAAAATE, Perma. I just wish I had a better suggestion.

[MarcelinePye]

A: The windows are electrified.
B: The only species I know of that can survive a lethal chem implant is a IPC.

[Streaky Haddock]

I'm fine with the Prison's security. My issue is, there is absolutely no interaction between Prisoner and Sec at all beyond foiling prison breaks or medical. The Prison can make shoulder holster, tool belts, etc and the Prisoners should be making these things for sec. It gives opportunity for interaction and manipulation. Issue is, the Prison is so secluded that often times; Prisoners are so forgotten about that they're often left stranded when the shuttle leaves.

[Vajra]

4 hours ago, MarcellusPye said:

A: The windows are electrified.
B: The only species I know of that can survive a lethal chem implant is a IPC.

As I mentioned, the windows being electric doesn't really matter since they can just throw the object to break the grating 

[Someonewithapen]

Being a Security Regular, I know how one can escape perma brig. I know the best way to escape perma brig, but it requires tools to be smuggled into the brig. Trying to escape into space unless you're a Vox just gets you listed as "Deceased" and you're going to stay that way so long as Security has a say in it.

[Vajra]

2 hours ago, Streaky Haddock said:

I'm fine with the Prison's security. My issue is, there is absolutely no interaction between Prisoner and Sec at all beyond foiling prison breaks or medical. The Prison can make shoulder holster, tool belts, etc and the Prisoners should be making these things for sec. It gives opportunity for interaction and manipulation. Issue is, the Prison is so secluded that often times; Prisoners are so forgotten about that they're often left stranded when the shuttle leaves.

I would very much like to interact with prisoners more, but between round hazards, and prisoners possibly being hostile, the best place to interact with them or at least have some other people to talk to would be in the standard cells. Which I guess is sort of my point near the end of my paragraph. If perma is so easy for them to destroy, and is at the very least extremely boring for prisoners, wouldnt it just be easier for sec to keep them in the forward cells or some form of solitary confinement so they can interact with, and keep an eye on em easier? 

[Tayswift]

19 hours ago, Vajra said:

wouldnt it just be easier for sec to keep them in the forward cells or some form of solitary confinement so they can interact with, and keep an eye on em easier? 

No...the whole point of perma is for them to escape. That's partly why perma is so isolated, to give prisoners a chance.

[Bigtimetripod]

18 minutes ago, Tayswift said:

No...the whole point of perma is for them to escape. That's partly why perma is so isolated, to give prisoners a chance.

That might be the case, but as this meta has sunk pretty far into peoples minds. I have seen HoS say that do not stick people in perma, they will just escape. This is usually replaced with either borging or just plain out murder (Read finding a reason to execute)

[Sothangel]

If people are going "lol no they'll escape from Perma" and breaking Space Law to do this by giving illegal executions? Let us know. I'd love to correct that.

[Bigtimetripod]

Just now, Sothangel said:

If people are going "lol no they'll escape from Perma" and breaking Space Law to do this by giving illegal executions? Let us know. I'd love to correct that.

I have seen you guys crack on down illegal executions more harshly lately, but its a thing, that once done, cannot really be undone. For an antag who has been executed unfair or even without a real reason, its a round ender for them and there is no way for them to continue being a antag. Sometimes it takes weeks to roll antag and just to have it be taken away by some overzealous security member or command really leaves a bad taste in yer mouth. Usually security issues a prisoner who has almost killed someone 501 (Murder) instead of even thinking about 403(Attemped murder) or 402 (manslaughter). That is enough space law reason to get them either borged or executed. I have personally seen how people are given 501 instead of 403, even tho the victim survived and didn't need to be revived. Guess they are few random incidents, but just sayin what i have seen.

[Alriac]

I think the permabrig should be made easier to escape through space now that fastmos was merged. It was easy to escape by breaking the window and then breaking a window to get in, but now you just get ejected into space and can't even get into the station by breaking a window because it throws you out again.

Also, can food contain tools inside?

[Bigtimetripod]

3 hours ago, Alriac said:

Also, can food contain tools inside?

I know you can put stuff in the bread, but that would get metad fast. Also maybe add somekinda onetime use spacesuits. Put it on and ye are spaceproof. Take it off and it turns into scrap and cannot be used again.

[HarakoniWarhawk]

9 hours ago, Bigtimetripod said:

I know you can put stuff in the bread, but that would get metad fast. Also maybe add somekinda onetime use spacesuits. Put it on and ye are spaceproof. Take it off and it turns into scrap and cannot be used again.

FTL13 has a interesting little item in crews Emergency box which is a disposable Space suit.

It acts like a normal EVA suit but breaks down after 10-15 minutes.

Edited November 5, 2017 by HarakoniWarhawk

[The Respected Man]

Head of Security is my main so i'm going to leave my one cent. 

Perma is pretty damn fine. Just lock down the vox in his cell and bolt down the airlocks with the brig door remote for good measure. If they escape into space then the AI is probably evil. 

The cells themselves can behave as a solitary confinement but i don't mind there being more because why not. 

Perma also is stocked with allot of food.

 

TL;DR i honestly can't even remember the last time a prisoner escaped when i was HoS. I think the last time a prisoner escaped it was because of wormholes and they jumped in and appeared somewhere in maint. 

Just make sure the warden isn't bald and perma isn't a problem, at all. I'm pretty damn surprised this thread was made. 

[CaesersLegion]

Hmmmm.....

I think i might have some ideas for perma but I'll have to go and see in the Github.

[TrainTN]

On 11/4/2017 at 8:32 AM, Alriac said:

Also, can food contain tools inside?

Bread, pizzas, cakes, maybe pies too. I once accidentally put wirecutters in a pizza while trying to slice it with tools, since knives are hard to come by. It may be only one tool per food item as well.

[BottomQuark]

Well on the foto of perma on wiki, there is no APC inside perma prison. So how about recharge station((however it is called))? That one that is in robotics and borgs use it to recharge. From what I remember it also works on IPCs.

About security of perma prison... Well it happend couple of times that someone escaped perma. For me main issue are the cameras outside the perma. There should be more cameras outside brig.

PS: What does chemical implant do even?

[TrainTN]

4 hours ago, BottomQuark said:

PS: What does chemical implant do even?

As I understand it, it's an implant that when remotely activated will release an implanted container of chemicals into the implantee's bloodstream. So you can dose them up on ether (or cyanide) and if they get out, just press the button and they'll keel over. Unless they got a buddy to surgically remove it first.

[Spartan]

I mean, I’d love it if there was just stuff in the way of the windows. We had a PR for this at one point by Freestyle but he thought he could improve on it... months ago.

 

But my idea of Perma is that once you’re in, you either need to have pre-prepared or need assistance from the outside. That or get lucky with unrobust security. So lucky it’s a one off sorta deal.

[Jountax]

Aside from like, two races, you do in fact need preparation in order to escape perma. Either getting out of the doors is just impossible or going through space will kill you if you don't smuggle in some tools or a space suit (which I've done before).

As for chemical implants, there are a lot of chemnerds on the station who can mix up a lethal dose of something for any given species, as well as a catch all nonlethal. Personal favorites for nonlethal are capulettium, large amounts of ether, and (untested) Sulfonol is mostly nonlethal... I think. The only time I've ever had an implant used on me, though, it was because I was given parole, and I just activated it myself with a bunch of chem purging chems in my system to survive it. And I think they loaded it with something I was immune to anyway.

Also, since someone mentioned the suit sensors on the prison jump suit, you do know you can just take those off, right? Can even replace it with a jumpsuit made from the biogenerator.

Long story short, escaping perma, or just hanging out in it chatting to sec and anyone who will listen over comms, is actually one of my favorite things to do as an antag. I'd never intentionally get caught, unless I thought for some reason it would actually help my plans, but I certainly won't suicide if security catches me and throws me in perma. As such, I know the ins and outs of it fairly well, and have spent a lot of time thinking of ways to escape it, as well as things to do in it if I can't escape.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Jountax