Contraband Change Suggestion

[bigfatbananacyclops]

I see that the Contraband list is kind of broken.. So this are my suggestions.

Greentexts: Suggestions

Contraband Swaps

1.D20 Bomb

D20 bomb is possible to be a huge max cap bomb, specially, even more than that, and its on E. Contraband section, a Syndicate Mini bomb is way TOO small and its level S contraband,  D20 is way more deadly and hard to fix than a Syndi mini bomb which is so small.

Suggestion: Swap D20 bomb to level S Contraband

2. Chameleon Sec huds

These aren't really that worthy of agents, there is DNA scramblers or Chameleon jumpsuits like this, and if you steal a sechud from a officer its litterally the same, but you get charged for Theft, and with cham hud you get perma. People can just make sec huds or steal sed hudglasses, and they just put a helmet on, and get charged of Possesion of restricted items/Theft for it,  so it seems pretty unfair you just get perma over a Sec hud that only camouflages as another eyewear.

Suggestion: Swap Chameleon Huds to level C Contraband

3.Meat Cleaver

A weapon that does about twenty five brute damage that does almost the same damage as a energy sword, and is more silent, that can also gib people to death and kill them permanently, i believe this should be level S. And it would be more worth of a esword if it was sharpened.

Suggestion: Swap to level S contraband

4.Voodoo Doll

This weapon isnt even that deadly, it just spies and annoys, and change people's temperature.

Suggestion: Swap to level C. contraband

5.Dart Pistol

You can get this in medical, and a better version, an RSG from RND which isnt even contraband.

Suggestion: Swap to ''Not Contraband''

6.Syndicate Pistol:

A deadly gun that can take multiple tipes of ammo, AP, Fire tipped, and more, and it's also a ''Syndicate'' Pistol, its syndicate property.

Suggestion:Swap to level S contraband

7.Riot Pistol

A riot gun that you can get in cargo plenty of times,  that isnt even a deadly weapon, anyone can grab a foam gun and put riot foam in.

Suggestion: Swap it to level C contraband.

 

8.Chameleon Jumpsuit

Some jumpsuits haves a little armor but let's be real, every jumpsuit is the same with a different design, a chameleon jumpsuit cant be bad at all and its used for fashion  mostly.

Suggestion: Swap Chameleon Jumpsuit to ''Not Contraband''

 

Missing items in Contraband List:

Now for adding weapons that are missing

-Energy Axe: Level S contraband

-Syndicate Magboots: Level C contraband (To be fair i think this should be changed with Advanced Syndicate Magboots, there's no difference, just the sprite and its asking to be arrested)

-Syndicate Bee Briefcase: Level S contraband

 

 

And for my last suggestion

It states that if a person haves two or more contraband of level C. contraband or others, he's considered an EOC, i believe this should be changed, and it should be atleast 4 or 3 items for level C. and for level W and E is 2 contraband items to make them an EOC.

Suggestion:

People can be considered an EOC for having atleast 4 or more items of level C contraband.

People can be considered an EOC for atleast having 2 or more items of level W or E contraband.

Example:

It's like having a ammo mag and a chameleon rubber stamp and get permaed for it

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by bigfatbananacyclops

[Bobalobdob]

That last one is a great idea. I was once perms'd as a clown for having nothing but an e-mag

[Hylocereus]

Shit I've had people fight to get me perma'd for having a military belt and a syndicate dufflebag. (AFTER I donated all of the tools to brigbay and demonstrated the belt was just being used as an ordinary toolbelt)

 

The contraband list is really nonsensical, there's still stuff missing and some questionable placements as demonstrated in the first post. Saying that I do believe that the chameleon huds should remain fairly high level contraband, though not an instant death sentance if you're caught with one, because you can basically hide them in plain sight and stealth counts for a lot in this game. Sure, you can wear a helmet over your stolen sechud, but wearing a helmet going about your buisness on the station already looks really suspicious and it's not gonna be long before someone grabs you for it. The only people who can really get away with that are people who usually wear hardsuits as part of their job.

[necaladun]

D20:

Stupidly destructive, should be S level.

Cham Sec Huds:

Stealth items like that are a bit weird, C level would make sense to me for something like this.

Meat Cleaver: 

Although stupidly damaging, it is just a meat cleaver which doesn't scream "syndicate" to me as much. But considering the damage it does....I'm torn here.

Voodoo Doll:

It's pretty clear anyone who has this is up to no good, and the whole...black magic aspect of it...But because it's pretty minimal influence wise, I wouldn't mind it being more acceptable to be caught with.

Dart Pistol:
The ease at which RSGs are able to be obtained is another issue, the dart pistol is as powerful as chem is at the time. At the very least, it should be a weapon, as it's clearly not NT tech.

Syndicate Pistol:
Because these are part of maint loot (although just with 1 shot),  S level is a bit of an issue here. I'd like the "syndicate" aspect to be removed from it, tbh - 10mm pistols exist IRL, and I'm pretty sure they're not part of the syndicate.

Riot Pistol:

Yeah, C

Cham Jumpsuit:
 

The main uses of this are infiltration - and because identity theft isn't actually in space law (yeah i know oversight etc) i think it needs to be illegal if someone manages to prove you have one.

 

Missing Items:
Agreed, as does every single nuke op item - Maulers are technically not contraband? :p

 

4 seems to much for me. The simple answer is - don't carry multiple items of contraband at a time - or just don't get caught.

[bigfatbananacyclops]

Syndi stechkin is a bit of a issue yeah, specially, i think it should be removed from the gamma armory, its really odd you can find a syndicate technology and gamma issued weapon on maintenance, as Shadeykins once said, to replace it with Enforcers. Or something else, or just entirely remove it.

 

Also some more missing items from contra:

X4 Explosive: Level S contraband

Krav Maga implanter: Level W contraband

Also let's make Syndicate Hardsuit apply with all of the Syndie hardsuits like Elite and Shielded.

Box of Cybernetic implants: Level C Contraband

And one more Swap suggestion:

Chameleon Flag:

Due to fastmos change, clearly Plasmafires are pretty deadly.

Edited November 21, 2017 by bigfatbananacyclops

[Spacemanspark]

34 minutes ago, bigfatbananacyclops said:

Syndi stechkin is a bit of a issue yeah, specially, i think it should be removed from the gamma armory, its really odd you can find a syndicate technology and gamma issued weapon on maintenance,

This, really. It never quite made sense to me as to why a dinky pistol was in a "last stand" armory type of deal.

[Mitchs98]

25 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:

This, really. It never quite made sense to me as to why a dinky pistol was in a "last stand" armory type of deal.

Clearly to toss at the enemy after firing at it in a 'FUCK YOU AHHH' sort of deal before dying horribly while contemplating the existence of a dinky pistol.

[Streaky Haddock]

I'm okay with unlinked Voodoo Dolls being downgraded to Class C contraband, but a linked one should still be considered class S since... you know, you clearly intend to do someone harm. IIRC you can also make people say things with the voodoo doll which can be very damaging if you're in a communications position like Command.

[SkeletalElite]

23 hours ago, Streaky Haddock said:

I'm okay with unlinked Voodoo Dolls being downgraded to Class C contraband, but a linked one should still be considered class S since... you know, you clearly intend to do someone harm. IIRC you can also make people say things with the voodoo doll which can be very damaging if you're in a communications position like Command.

Its a chaplain only traitor item that costs over 10 TC and is only slightly lethal. It should either be reduced in contraband level or price, not to mention if you use it on someone theyll instantly know and say theyre being wicker dolled.

[Streaky Haddock]

 

5 hours ago, SkeletalElite said:

Its a chaplain only traitor item that costs over 10 TC and is only slightly lethal. It should either be reduced in contraband level or price, not to mention if you use it on someone theyll instantly know and say theyre being wicker dolled.

Miners can find it in the asteroid.

As for why it shouldnt be class S when linked, I can't think of a single helpful, useful or good function it has. It can only be used to sabotage the station and the people inside. It has no good use, so if you have it LINKED to someone, you're clearly not trying to help them.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Streaky Haddock

[flimflamm]

What we need is a distinction between syndicate/stealth weaponry and regular weaponry (except for explosives, which are always bad)

For example, there is something called "Projectile Gun" which is a 10mm pistol like the stetchkin but named differently. Since it's not on the contraband list it cannot be used to declare you as an EoC, but it is still obviously a weapon that should be restricted. (As a side note, simply replace the maintenance stetchkin with the projectile gun to solve the EoC from maint-loot dilemma).

So what we need is a separate non-syndicate contraband protocol that classifies non-syndicate weapons and other restricted tech or and some guidelines for dealing with them.

Here's what the laws might look like

POSSESSION OF EDGED WEAPONRY:

Anyone found in possession of metal blades or edged weapons - of any kind which is not related to their occupation or reasonably justifiable to carry - may be subject to incarceration which lasts no longer a number of minutes equivalent to the brute damage level of the most deadly blade or edged weapon they are carrying, presuming it is their first such offense. All unauthorized blades must be confiscated, and second and third offenses result in the doubling and tripling of incarceration times (respectively). Examples of edged weapons include:

Hatchets

Scythes

Kitchen knives

Butchers Cleaver

Scalpels

Surgical Saws

Fire-axes

Meat-cleavers

Spears

E-cutlass'

Katanas

Claymores

Chaplain's swords

SPECIAL EXEMPTION: Replica Katana

 

POSSESSION OF PROJECTILE/RANGED WEAPONS:

Anyone found in possession of a non-syndicate projectile or range based energy weapon - of any kind which is not related to their occupation or reasonably justifiable to carry - may be subject to incarceration for a period of no longer than 40 minutes. It is advised that officers only give the maximum sentence of 40 minutes only if when crew is found in possession of especially deadly or powerful projectile weaponry. Examples of projectile weapons include:

Projectile guns

Pneumatic cannons

Improvised shotguns

Shotguns

Bluespace wormhole guns

Tasers

Laser guns

Retro laser guns

E-guns

Advanced E-guns

Accelerator laser cannons

Plasma pistols

Tesla revolvers

Rapid fire syringe guns

Immolator laser gun

Xray laser gun

Ion Carbine

WT-550 auto gun

The severity of being caught with a gun should depend on the gun and the circumstances of it's acquisition and continued posession. A taser evidently found in maintenance and not turned in should result in a 10 minute sentence at most, while an actual laser should warrant a bit more. Accelerator laser cannons, advanced e-guns, and  WT-550 auto guns are much stronger and so should warrant even more. Xray laser guns,, immolator laser guns, or a bag full of WT-550 armor piercing rounds, being the overpowered tools of mass murder that they are, should warrant the maximum sentence. Repeat offenses can result in the doubling and tripling of incarceration times, respectively.

 

Currently possession of a weapon not related to your job can get you 5-10 minutes (example you are running around with 5 adv-eguns in your bag , while possession of two stetchkins (contraband) can get you thrown to perma (note: I've found two stetchkins in maintenance before as maint loot)). Having the punishment more appropriately fit the crime for both edged and ranged weapons via these two approaches is much more clear and satisfying from an RP perspective.

In order to clarify exactly kind of syndicate weapons should warrant the labeling of EoC, we could compose a master list of extraordinary syndicate weapons which specifically come with that association and leave everything else to the above rubric (incarceration equivalent to brute for meele and up to half an hour for ranged)

The main dilemma with space law overall is that generic crime descriptions and generic sentences cannot capture the nuance required to deliver high RP standards of justice because they're just too simplistic. This system for dealing with weapons charges is easy enough to grasp and communicate in-game, and it even encourages appropriate punishments. It would be difficult to concoct similar systems for all aspects of space crime, but were that possible then space law could get a heck of a lot more fair, effective, an justifiable from an RP perspective.

Edited November 23, 2017 by flimflamm

[SkeletalElite]

12 hours ago, Streaky Haddock said:

 

Miners can find it in the asteroid.

As for why it shouldnt be class S when linked, I can't think of a single helpful, useful or good function it has. It can only be used to sabotage the station and the people inside. It has no good use, so if you have it LINKED to someone, you're clearly not trying to help them.

One time a miner gave me a wicker doll as a chaplain (non-antag) and I just used it to play with people and make them say stuff to convince them my god was real. I even managed to convince some dude who talked (typed?) with a weird accent. He ended up going to some dinoa that came from botany with a shield and a spear and challenging him to dual and saying "crabby is my armor" (my god was crab'sie) and because of that I used the wicker doll to help him.

Just a bit of a story on how it can be harmless even when linked and its definately not a good tator item. Any chaplain who buys this is either doing a very weird gimmic, memeing, or has no clue how bad of an item it is.

[Fox McCloud]

The foam-force Stetckin pistol shouldn't even be contraband, in my opinion; you can order it from cargo; if it's contraband, then hypothetically, so should the rest of the foam force stuff.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Fox McCloud

[HarakoniWarhawk]

On 20/11/2017 at 1:19 PM, Hylocereus said:

Shit I've had people fight to get me perma'd for having a military belt and a syndicate dufflebag. (AFTER I donated all of the tools to brigbay and demonstrated the belt was just being used as an ordinary toolbelt)

 

The contraband list is really nonsensical, there's still stuff missing and some questionable placements as demonstrated in the first post. Saying that I do believe that the chameleon huds should remain fairly high level contraband, though not an instant death sentance if you're caught with one, because you can basically hide them in plain sight and stealth counts for a lot in this game. Sure, you can wear a helmet over your stolen sechud, but wearing a helmet going about your buisness on the station already looks really suspicious and it's not gonna be long before someone grabs you for it. The only people who can really get away with that are people who usually wear hardsuits as part of their job.

Let me guess, this was the same round where Goobina broke SOP over her Knee to let you walk around with contraband?

It' odd you forgot to mention people were looking to perma you as you used said contraband to commit a major crime, specifically breaking into Teleporter then Caps office.

 

On the topic of changing contraband status, the stetchkin should be treated the same as any other weapon, it' availabiity in maint and in the Gateway makes it so having one isnt a instant sign of syndicate activity.

Edited November 24, 2017 by HarakoniWarhawk

[FoS]

Contraband is so frustrating since quite a lot of it can be found in maintenance and while I've had plenty of security officers choose to not restrict their meta-knowledge of every single syndicate related weapon/its tells/how it is used and all that they seem strangely willing to pretend they have no idea that those things can be found in maintenance and thus I've been brigged/perma'd for turning in contraband before.

A lot of contraband is harmless and honestly shouldn't be a problem so long as it isn't being used for committing a crime. Even stranger is the fact that some contraband items pale in comparison to things you can legally obtain around the station.

Thermal Imaging Glasses are contraband yet having xray via genetics/implants is fine.

Voice Changer is contraband yet Tcomm scripts ruin and invalidate it on its own.

Military Belt is just a belt, if there are dangerous contents then THOSE should be the things you worry about.

Chameleon Stamp - cool you can imitate any stamp but if whatever is stamped sounds too good to be true it doesn't take long to verify or require a signature as well.

Chameleon Jumpsuit - you can copy clothes but nothing else. Unless you're reaaaaally lucky or have other items too you're gonna get caught.

 

[Hylocereus]

1 hour ago, HarakoniWarhawk said:

Let me guess, this was the same round where Goobina broke SOP over her Knee to let you walk around with contraband?

It' odd you forgot to mention people were looking to perma you as you used said contraband to commit a major crime, specifically breaking into Teleporter then Caps office.

 

On the topic of changing contraband status, the stetchkin should be treated the same as any other weapon, it' availabiity in maint and in the Gateway makes it so having one isnt a instant sign of syndicate activity.

This has actually happened more than once. It's correct I did commit B+E of a restricted area on that specific occasion but I've also had people attempt to perma me for having those items before without having committed any kind of crime at all. The first time I ever found a surgery duffle in maint I was actually gulag'd for it.

Again though. Why do they matter? How often do you see tools and insulateds confiscated for B+E, even though it's entirely legal?

[HarakoniWarhawk]

15 minutes ago, Hylocereus said:

This has actually happened more than once. It's correct I did commit B+E of a restricted area on that specific occasion but I've also had people attempt to perma me for having those items before without having committed any kind of crime at all. The first time I ever found a surgery duffle in maint I was actually gulag'd for it.

Again though. Why do they matter? How often do you see tools and insulateds confiscated for B+E, even though it's entirely legal?

People getting Perma'd for possession of military belt or dufflebag is stupid, but when the bag was still contraband committng a major crime while using it is grounds for perma or even EOC status.

What I'm leery of is crew like civilians possessing equipment such as military belts which can hide any small item, which includes things such as stetchkins.

 

[Machofish]

I'm surprised that I'm saying this, but I agree with the changes proposed in the OP. I would also propose that most of the items in the 'W' and 'E' categories should just be upgraded to 'S' status - with exceptions for certain items described in the OP, and the possible exception of the Stetchkin (I'll elaborate on that later). I can think of no situation where carrying a brick of tactical C4 would somehow not indicate sinister intent, same goes for a professionally-made garrote and 'W' or 'E' class items which fall under the description of "disguised murder tools". I also agree with downgrading the Voodoo doll's classification - using a voodoo doll requires quite a bit of luck, trust, and compliance on behalf of the intended victim, and higher-profile crew tend to be even more aloof and distracted and wear gloves as part of their uniform, making the voodoo doll even more difficult to use against high-profile targets like the heads of staff or the captain. A voice changer and an agent ID are capable of similar shenanigans for less personal effort.

In regards to the Stetchkin, I think it should keep its classification as a 'W' level, and its description should be changed. From how it's treated in the game, I think the Stetchkin in SS13 is meant to be viewed as the 'McAfee Antivirus' of the firearms world: A product so unbelievably shitty that owners are actually worse-off due to being given a false sense of security, but the parent company mass-produces and markets the product so aggressively that it still turns a profit from the one or two chumps that get duped into relying on it. It would be a perfect fit for SS13's theme of heartless corporations, and it would be a good in-universe explanation for why simply owning a stetchkin specifically is not an instant EoC charge: "Yes, it's a gun. No, the Syndicate aren't the only people who use them."

[Shadeykins]

My two cents.

Dart pistol fits into pockets. RSG and syringe gun does not. You can't silently draw or holster either the syringe gun or the RSG.

Syndicate pistol is already S-level if it's paired with more than one bullet (read its description).

Chameleon sec HUDS are undetectable sec huds. That's their benefit - you can disguise them as other eyewear. This is arguably one of the biggest tools to wreak havoc on the station with, I'd honestly rather not promote giving a 15 minute sentence to the shitler who sets everyone on station to arrest using a chameleon HUD.

Riot foam weapons shouldn't be in the hands of the crew. It's why the ammo for it is latheable only under a hacked lathe. If you manage to nick the detective's revolver and modify it into a .357, you should expect just as much trouble as if you loaded any other gun with non-standard ammunition. We already delineate on these sorts of charges, IE: the bartender is fine to have a shotgun, but the second they load it with buckshot there's a massive issue.

You can also make foam riot bullets lethal by inserting pens into them (which boosts them to 5 damage per bullet, hefty considering they also do a boatload of stamina damage per hit).
 

"Items that are illegal to possess but not necessarily traitor items. Possession of any 1 of these items is considered a breach of the Possession of Contraband (300) law. Having 2 or more of these, or using any one of these items to commit a Major Crime, automatically classifies you as an Enemy of the Corporation."

"These items are also considered to be part of the Contraband (C) category for determining whether someone is in possession of multiple Contraband items."

Two counts of contraband already elect you for EoC as is from C level and up.

To clarify on other counts, syndicate dufflebag isn't contraband unless it has the MMI in it.

Also, Camera Bug from S-Level to C.

[Fox McCloud]

On 11/22/2017 at 8:05 AM, Streaky Haddock said:

 

Miners can find it in the asteroid.

As for why it shouldnt be class S when linked, I can't think of a single helpful, useful or good function it has. It can only be used to sabotage the station and the people inside. It has no good use, so if you have it LINKED to someone, you're clearly not trying to help them.

 

Maybe if you're uncreative.

 

It lets you see through their own eyes. Link it to a buddy and you can always check on them, no matter what.

 

They scream for help and their sensors are off? Doen't matter; if its linked, you can see through their eyes (as long as they're not like, gibbed or anything).

 

The voodoo doll is mostly a gimmick, at best.

 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Fox McCloud

[Streaky Haddock]

Huh. I didn't know that.

[bigfatbananacyclops]

I can agree with the dart pistol thing,

but

Quote

Riot foam weapons shouldn't be in the hands of the crew. It's why the ammo for it is latheable only under a hacked lathe. If you manage to nick the detective's revolver and modify it into a .357, you should expect just as much trouble as if you loaded any other gun with non-standard ammunition. We already delineate on these sorts of charges, IE: the bartender is fine to have a shotgun, but the second they load it with buckshot there's a massive issue.

I mean it's just a nerf gun, and there would be a difference if it comes with regular foam ammo, so we should just make the Riot foam darts part of contraband and remove that gun.

Also yes, Camera Bug from level S to level C would be good.

Quote

People getting Perma'd for possession of military belt or dufflebag is stupid, but when the bag was still contraband committng a major crime while using it is grounds for perma or even EOC status.

What I'm leery of is crew like civilians possessing equipment such as military belts which can hide any small item, which includes things such as stetchkins.

And yeah i really had a issue with this, being permaed for having Chameleon Jumpsuit and Chameleon Stamp, ''two contrabands''  Honestly, all of contraband needs a rework and more sections, there needs to be a classification, just like its classified on Uplink, Stealth weapons, Devices, Loud stuff, Badassery stuff.

There should be classification for contraband that can be used for harm and if you have two or more of them it's perma, UNLESS it's level S contraband.

Infact there's alot of crafted weapons which are against the law. and are not in contraband, but it cant be added because there's thing ''two contraband instant perma' thing, so as an example if it was in contra it would be like ''spear and hatchet, you go to perma''

Edited November 28, 2017 by bigfatbananacyclops

[KingPhilipIII]

Problem is, and this has been subject to discussion earlier, is how we choose to classify contraband. There seems to be a shift away from it being strictly what you can get only from Syndie-Uplinks being totally condemning, to the danger posed by the device.

We need to pick one and stick with it, and adjust accordingly.

[SkeletalElite]

6 hours ago, KingPhilipIII said:

Problem is, and this has been subject to discussion earlier, is how we choose to classify contraband. There seems to be a shift away from it being strictly what you can get only from Syndie-Uplinks being totally condemning, to the danger posed by the device.

We need to pick one and stick with it, and adjust accordingly.

Definitely needs to be according to danger for sake of balance.Wicker Doll is a perfect example. 14 TC that hardly gets anything done and gets you thrown in perma.