IAA Rework

[Streaky Haddock]

I didn't realise that the IAA Retool was a thing while the PR was open since i'm not a big checker of git. So I'm going to poke this dead horse now.

I believe that the IAA Buff should have targeted their radio instead of their IDs. A Big issue with IA Agents is they have no ability to acquire hard evidence, and are forced to rely only on witness testimony. They also only get two sides of any given story: Security's, and the Defendant's.

Not only that, but their job role is to lubricate the grinding gears of production on the station. It's their job to find out why mining's not getting any minerals for science, it's their job to find out why engineering hasn't come to the brig for the past six calls, it's their job to track down and tell the HoP where the Janitor's vanished to.

Giving them increased access doesn't hurt, but it doesn't really help them in this regard, either.

 

Instead, give them more radio access. That would actually help them and make them more effective.

 

Yes, this would make them more mechanically similar to the NT Rep; but the NT Rep and the IA Agent have different concerns. Or, at least, they should do.

[ZN23X]

I only worry about greytide+ IAA using the comms access  (sounds like maybe to all departments?) to be shitters to every dept instead of just sec. Being a sec main I wouldn't mind them "spreading the love" but maybe make it a karma job just so people need to put SOME effort into unlocking it? Literally like 10-20 karma, nothing huge but it'd at least prevent fresh players from screwing around with all comms access. Same concept as the NT rep and Magistrate.

Edited January 8, 2018 by ZN23X

[Streaky Haddock]

Frankly, if they're able to be shitters on six comms channels at once, I think admins would notice. I'd argue there's much less capacity for greytide-tier grief with the radio access than with the ID access they've been given. 

My second concern is that IA Agents are often empty slots as it is, though nowhere near as vacant as the Magistrate. I don't know if adding karma pricing to the IA role would be... healthy for it.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Streaky Haddock

[ZN23X]

As long as the admins police it I'm good with no karma and think that them having access to all comms except command is an excellent idea. Easier to make sure everyone is doing thier job, which is thier job.

[Streaky Haddock]

Oh yeah, they shouldn't have command radio that is squarely the NT Rep's job.

[EvadableMoxie]

I think the IAA 'shitter' problem is part of the overall problem with IAAs.  It's not that IAAs want to be shits, but that they desperately want to something to do and to be relevant in some way. So that's why they enforce minor parts of SoP and generally be annoying.  Because if they didn't, they'd very often have nothing to do at all.  They'll pick at the crumbs only because they're starving.  They wouldn't have to do that if they had other things to be doing. 

[Kyet]

Let's compare two cases.

1. I notice a sec officer being bad. I make a complaint to the IAA.
2. I notice a sec officer being bad. I tell the HoS.

Which of these two is more likely to result in the issue being fixed?

• The HoS is supposedly the officer's boss. The IAA is not.
• The HoS has the actual, practical ability to fire said officer using the demotion console. The IAA does not.
• The HoS' main job is to manage their department. The IAA's is not.
• The HoS knows that if they don't take my complaint seriously, I may go to the Captain instead, which will reflect badly on them. The IAA doesn't care if I disagree with them, as they don't really report to the Captain, and won't care if I tell the Captain they failed to act. The Captain might actually laugh at me for saying that, as they wouldn't expect IAAs to do anything either.

OK, looks like going to the head of staff is better on many counts.

What about time requirement?

• HoS, I can reach over the radio, or PDA.
• IAA is going to want me to come to their office and spend several minutes filling out paperwork, taking a statement, etc. I have other things to be doing.

Looks like talking with the HoS wins again.

What about fallback?

• If the HoS doesn't listen to me, I can go straight to the Captain.
• If the IAA doesn't listen to me, I'll end up contacting the HoS anyway.

Seems like I might as well just go straight to the HoS.

Is there ANY scenario where going to the IAA is better?

I can think of one: incompetent Captains. If the Captain is terrible, and Command isn't willing or able to impeach them, then getting a fax sent to CC is just about your only option for dealing with it. There are very few long-range fax machines. The IAA's is the most accessible. In this case, the IAA is useful. As useful as the NT Rep, in this capacity.

Most of the time, though? You're better off contacting the head of that department, and everyone knows it.

I tried to address the problem by giving them enough access that they could physically examine the station themselves, and detect/report on problems without having to rely on someone else informing them. Perhaps I should have given them radio access too. I don't know. I did know, however, that they needed more than they had.

 

 

[Jountax]

In the git I suggested that since IAAs are taking on a more HR-ish aspect, it would make sense to give them the ability to initiate payday for any departments they see are doing their jobs well. They would likely accomplish this by pressing an ID locked button in their office or something, and then everyone in the relevant department receives some sweet sweet useless spacecash. If it was deemed that that is something that people wanted IAAs to be doing, I wouldn't be opposed to making a PR to give them that ability.

Would give them more to do, and maybe make people more receptive to having the little beurocrats running around, since it means they might be able to hit up the vending machine full of annoying toys in the near future.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Jountax

[Streaky Haddock]

I agree, Tzo. My argument is that, given the nature of the problems encountered when I play IA ever, having access to more radio channels would go further to solving their issues than the ID Access. I'm not saying giving them ID access was a bad idea/shouldn't have been done/etc. but when I looked at the github comments, the possibility of increased radio access wasn't ever discussed. So I'm bringing it up now, because I think it would be more helpful.

[Kyet]

2 hours ago, Streaky Haddock said:

I agree, Tzo. My argument is that, given the nature of the problems encountered when I play IA ever, having access to more radio channels would go further to solving their issues than the ID Access. I'm not saying giving them ID access was a bad idea/shouldn't have been done/etc. but when I looked at the github comments, the possibility of increased radio access wasn't ever discussed. So I'm bringing it up now, because I think it would be more helpful.

Any channels in particular?

 

[Streaky Haddock]

Honestly, all of them would be nice. Except Command, since that's the NT Rep's job.

[BottomQuark]

13 hours ago, tzo said:

I can think of one: incompetent Captains. If the Captain is terrible, and Command isn't willing or able to impeach them, then getting a fax sent to CC is just about your only option for dealing with it. There are very few long-range fax machines. The IAA's is the most accessible. In this case, the IAA is useful. As useful as the NT Rep, in this capacity.

I belive that's the matter NT Rep should take care of, not IAA. NT Rep is here to make sure command is competent, is he not?

So that basicly means that IAA is the way to go only when there is no NT Rep/(Acting) Heaf of Staff to contact. So IAA is preety useless.

I think giving IAA more channels would make it easier to comunicate with him, and so improving his usefullness. And propably people will actually try to contact him.

[TrainTN]

The problem with IA is people want their problems solved ASAP so they can go back to doing whatever they were doing before, not engage in a 15-minute interview while filling out paperwork because the clown stole your ID or Cargo is wasting its points on pizza or Security harmbatoned you a couple times. Same reason most people don't roleplay in Medbay, they only go in if they have a problem and they want it fixed immediately so they can leave immediately. As it stands, IA's only relevance is nitpicking at everyone, especially Security, and even then they're irrelevant when there's a Magistrate on board to nitpick Security for them, and with actual authority on top of it

If there's an actual major problem with the crew, IA can't really do anything but tell Security, and chances are everyone else has already told them.

[Streaky Haddock]

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/8562

 

make sure to comment on the pull request

Edited January 17, 2018 by Streaky Haddock

[C.A.S.]

Hello, I know I'm new to the forums and the server although I have played quite a few hours as what is truly my "main" at the moment, Cas Cognaut.

The way that I see Internal Affairs is, as it should be, the sub-departmental office of the Department of Justice. It is the duty of the IAA (in my opinion) to primarily focus on the actions of the arresting Officers in the Department of Security. That being said it can look like I am, in character, attempting to screw them over. I really am not, and I make that intention clear. It is my job to make sure that both characters have the best legal situation. Station Security is operating under Space Law and the Standard Operating Procedures, this is where they gain their authority. Inversely this is also where crew-members have their rights. I usually carry with me the Voice Recorder for interviews, it makes it as quick as it possible can be. And then print the transcript. I attach this to my Report with my following Recommendation. This can solve most incidents in 6 to 8 minutes per party. Meaning that they say what they need to say, and I usher them out, get the next person involved in, and repeat. I get them out of "my way" as soon as possible that way they don't get bored in the office. Then I take as long as I need to search through Space Law & SoP(s) to see if there is any offense.

It is important to note that I do not take minor infringements into investigation formats. Minor being a slip up in arresting procedure, that happens. Also nobody wants to engage in RP explaining themselves. Its a no win, so i simply give my Recommendation on the spot as a sort of verbal "warning". There is no citation recorded. If I forget them on a future violation, thats on me. This keeps things steady, you don't look like an asshole. I mean you won't gain any karma but thats not really a concern.

My routine, and the reason I am giving this is because I have great RPs and very little "downtime" as IAA which means something here must be working.

1) As soon as the shift starts I make the announcement about the SoP & Suit sensors. Informing the crew that they are not required to put their suit sensors to maximum if they do not wish to do so as provided to them in the SoP. I make sure that the first thing I do with the crew is make a good and professional appearance.

2) I make for the Head of Personnel line as the first stop on my "patrol". The reason is most complaints will stem from this point, its a ground zero. I will introduce myself in character to the HoP, let them know that any complaints of their job should be sent to the Office of Internal Affairs if it comes from anyone (besides command) if they feel they cannot deal with it. This gives the player who's character is the HoP a reason to not to listen to whining about department heads not doing so and so and send it on to someone who would enjoy it.

3) I go to Cargo, give them a little bit of RP on the topic of "Productivity being paramount." Not so much a lecture but more of an ominous reminder.

4) I go to the Bar, this is the second most likely place to find violations of the SoP, and then people wanting a mediator. (see 2nd paragraph of this comment)

5) I see medbay, if anyone is complaining I inquire. If its nothing I can solve I leave and head for Security to meet with prisoners.

And that is it. I repeat steps 4 & 5 for the remainder of the shift, while with every Alert priority change updating the crew (through general comms) of their rights and personal responsibilities. This will carry me for up to 2 hours of RP reliably. I never feel like I am being ignored on my recommendations because I have, by this point, hopefully established a working relationship with every department. Another key is to make sure your recommendations are little more than slaps on the wrist. The players do not want to feel the weight of the book hitting them for things whether they deserve it or not. I have only ever once come down with a recommendation, and it was only partially enacted. Because it was a Warden who wasn't doing their job, tazed the mime out of spite, and starting arresting people on Green. AKA Wardens are not arresting officers on Green. Unauthorized use of force, and neglect of their duties. The recommendation was being offered the chance step down (not involuntary demotion) or being confined to the security department for the remainder of the shift still acting as Warden.

===================

As for any changes I would like to see? Radio access to Supply in addition to the already given Security. These are the target audience of the IAA the majority of the time. Anything else can be hailed to you on General Comms, PDA Message, or in-person contact. From my experiences there is little demand for IAA from any other departments. Engineering, Medical, etc often are too absorbed with their own tasks to really RP much (no judgement). Another and probably petty request, is that the IAA office be located closer to the primary square. Why? Because I think it would be easier to access, more visible, and really give the impression that the role is supposed to be utilized. I understand the logistical problem with doing so, so I won't push it as a serious topic of discussion.

As for what has been posted in the link, nothing there is a "No" from me. I think they are positive changes. 

I am strongly against Karma locking IAA. I think this is a position that should be open to any player with equal chance as the next. Only for the reason that I do not think that IAA wields enough mechanical power to warrant it. Full disclosure I also only have 4 Karma, I've been saving for an IPC. So I am extremely biased. I don't want to get into a thing about the karma system though, I think it works as intended. I've seen plenty of IPCs, NT Reps, Blueshields, etc. So i know its no where near impossible to achieve low goals like that.

Thank you for reading this, even if it was just skimming.

[Jountax]

I find botany and robotics breaking SoP on a semi regular basis too. In the botanist's case, it's also a violation of space law: distribution of narcotics. In robotic's case it's borging people without proper forms being filled out beforehand.

Both of these are pretty understandable, because I think actually enforcing those two things are pretty unique to us as far as non HRP servers go. A simple reminder is usually enough, but technically you could view earthsblood as a narcotic, and some botanists like to distribute healing plants that include it.

 

However, on the subject of mechanical power and karma unlocks, most karma unlocked jobs are intentionally low power, so that if no one who has them unlocked joins as them it doesn't hurt the round much.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Jountax

[Calecute]

Space law really should be explicit about what is or isn't a narcotic for purposes of Drug Possession and Narcotics Distribution. It should not be the job of sec and IAA to decide on a case by case basis.